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  1. #11
    Moderator "The Trinity" Kashdinero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside Ron Garvin View Post
    Deleted... Because I finally got what you were meaning and realized I called him "Kid"
    Ahh, you got this in while I was replying. Oh well, we both know what we meant

    It's definitely refreshing conversing with someone who takes levels of wrestling geekery to new plateaus
    Ma$$Dinero... We're shootin' now, bruv!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Barrett 1979 View Post
    Kash; calling it 4 years before Robbie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    Bodom is our John Cena.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Dismal Jester View Post
    I hate you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstar View Post
    #KashBrokeMyBrain
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilsAdvocate View Post
    Nerds are awesome though!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Barrett 1979 View Post
    Are you going for some kind of sig quote world record?
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstar View Post
    You can choke on a big bag of dicks, good sir.

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheBall View Post
    Kash, you sexy motherfucker!


    #FreeBodom



  2. #12
    Moderator "The Trinity" Kashdinero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Thunder View Post
    Bryan's no mug, I'm sure he's well aware of the hazards of using it. As long as he's comfortable doing it knowing that he's doing it safely (I doubt he'd be doing it if he knew that it was doing a lot of damage to himself), then I have no problem with him using it.
    I guess the ring has a lot more give to it these days, but I still wince at the thought of his neck potentially taking the trauma that is generally associated with that move, softer landing or not. Call it me being an old fart who has seen the damage it has done to others and wondering just how much safer he is when performing it. If I'm honest, I can't see a hell of a lot of difference. Sure, subtlety it is different, I just hope that it's different enough to eliminate the damage done to the performer of it.
    Ma$$Dinero... We're shootin' now, bruv!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Barrett 1979 View Post
    Kash; calling it 4 years before Robbie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    Bodom is our John Cena.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Dismal Jester View Post
    I hate you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstar View Post
    #KashBrokeMyBrain
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilsAdvocate View Post
    Nerds are awesome though!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Barrett 1979 View Post
    Are you going for some kind of sig quote world record?
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstar View Post
    You can choke on a big bag of dicks, good sir.

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheBall View Post
    Kash, you sexy motherfucker!


    #FreeBodom



  3. #13
    Black Ninja! Tommy Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashdinero View Post
    I guess the ring has a lot more give to it these days, but I still wince at the thought of his neck potentially taking the trauma that is generally associated with that move, softer landing or not. Call it me being an old fart who has seen the damage it has done to others and wondering just how much safer he is when performing it. If I'm honest, I can't see a hell of a lot of difference. Sure, subtlety it is different, I just hope that it's different enough to eliminate the damage done to the performer of it.
    I don't know, with how careful wrestlers, and indeed WWE are these days with allowing certain moves to be used, you'd think that they'd have made sure that the diving headbut could be used correctly without causing any lasting damage before allowing someone to do it.

  4. #14
    Moderator "The Trinity" Kashdinero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Thunder View Post
    I don't know, with how careful wrestlers, and indeed WWE are these days with allowing certain moves to be used, you'd think that they'd have made sure that the diving headbut could be used correctly without causing any lasting damage before allowing someone to do it.
    Yeah, agreed--todays wrestlers in WWE have the "safest" moves of any era I've seen, but at the end of the day, the lasting damage that even the simplest of slams and suplexes can inflict will never truly be eliminated. Another move which certainly ranks up there with the diving headbutt is the top rope back suplex. The risk associated with that move will never go away, I don't care who's performing it.
    Ma$$Dinero... We're shootin' now, bruv!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Barrett 1979 View Post
    Kash; calling it 4 years before Robbie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    Bodom is our John Cena.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Dismal Jester View Post
    I hate you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstar View Post
    #KashBrokeMyBrain
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilsAdvocate View Post
    Nerds are awesome though!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Barrett 1979 View Post
    Are you going for some kind of sig quote world record?
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstar View Post
    You can choke on a big bag of dicks, good sir.

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheBall View Post
    Kash, you sexy motherfucker!


    #FreeBodom



  5. #15
    Black Ninja! Tommy Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashdinero View Post
    Yeah, agreed--todays wrestlers in WWE have the "safest" moves of any era I've seen, but at the end of the day, the lasting damage that even the simplest of slams and suplexes can inflict will never truly be eliminated. Another move which certainly ranks up there with the diving headbutt is the top rope back suplex. The risk associated with that move will never go away, I don't care who's performing it.
    Oh yeah, but if yo took away every little thing that could cause any sort of injury, then you're just watering it down too much, and it stops being what you're supposed to be producing; wrestling. I'm glad WWE at least leave in some moves that look like they legit hurt at least.
    Absolutely, another move that Bryan frequently does ironically. I like the top robe back superplex though, I'm glad they still allow it despite the risks. I don't think they'd trust many to do that move though. Bryan's the only one who does it often. I think Orton occasionally breaks it out, I have a vague memory of Punk doing it a couple of times as of late. Bryan's the only one who does it s a regular move though.

  6. #16
    Moderator "The Trinity" Kashdinero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Thunder View Post
    Oh yeah, but if yo took away every little thing that could cause any sort of injury, then you're just watering it down too much, and it stops being what you're supposed to be producing; wrestling. I'm glad WWE at least leave in some moves that look like they legit hurt at least.
    Absolutely, another move that Bryan frequently does ironically. I like the top robe back superplex though, I'm glad they still allow it despite the risks. I don't think they'd trust many to do that move though. Bryan's the only one who does it often. I think Orton occasionally breaks it out, I have a vague memory of Punk doing it a couple of times as of late. Bryan's the only one who does it s a regular move though.
    I Personally think that as long as the wrestlers involved are happy to participate in the move then that should be the bottom line of it. I'll still say that some moves cause more lasting damage than others, and the diving headbutt is up the with the worst offenders. I'd like to read an interview with DB regarding his usage of it. Landing chest first on the mat has got to be a lot worse than say taking a back bump from the same height.

    One thing I do know is that DB prides himself on being tough in the ring, and his style of performing is likely to add to general wear and tear than a guy like Darren Young who wrestles more in the cookie cutter type of "safe WWE" way. One only needs to look at DB's street fight with Randy Orton to see just how much punishment his body takes whilst throwing himself around and taking some of the moves he allows other to perform on him. The stinger he got in that match was very real, yet he was still willing to "gut it out" until he was ordered to take it home early. A move that saw him have a bit of a bust up with HHH who was only looking out for DB's well being (but given the amount of times he has carried on after badly injuring himself should have expected the reaction he got once DB got backstage).

    I'm all about watching that smash mouth type of strong style wrestling, but I guess after seeing the effects it can have on a body over the years, I'm now in a position where I feel it for these guys a lot more than I used to. For instance, watching Mick Foleys matches back now is hard work because of the legit punishment he went through in some of those crazy spots he used to do regularly, such as the diving elbow off of the apron onto the concrete. Then there's Misawa. His brutal matches softened up his neck to the point where he actually died after taking a "simple" plex that he had taken numerous times before.
    Ma$$Dinero... We're shootin' now, bruv!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Barrett 1979 View Post
    Kash; calling it 4 years before Robbie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    Bodom is our John Cena.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Dismal Jester View Post
    I hate you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstar View Post
    #KashBrokeMyBrain
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilsAdvocate View Post
    Nerds are awesome though!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Barrett 1979 View Post
    Are you going for some kind of sig quote world record?
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstar View Post
    You can choke on a big bag of dicks, good sir.

    Quote Originally Posted by BennyTheBall View Post
    Kash, you sexy motherfucker!


    #FreeBodom



  7. #17
    Black Ninja! Tommy Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kashdinero View Post
    I Personally think that as long as the wrestlers involved are happy to participate in the move then that should be the bottom line of it. I'll still say that some moves cause more lasting damage than others, and the diving headbutt is up the with the worst offenders. I'd like to read an interview with DB regarding his usage of it. Landing chest first on the mat has got to be a lot worse than say taking a back bump from the same height.

    One thing I do know is that DB prides himself on being tough in the ring, and his style of performing is likely to add to general wear and tear than a guy like Darren Young who wrestles more in the cookie cutter type of "safe WWE" way. One only needs to look at DB's street fight with Randy Orton to see just how much punishment his body takes whilst throwing himself around and taking some of the moves he allows other to perform on him. The stinger he got in that match was very real, yet he was still willing to "gut it out" until he was ordered to take it home early. A move that saw him have a bit of a bust up with HHH who was only looking out for DB's well being (but given the amount of times he has carried on after badly injuring himself should have expected the reaction he got once DB got backstage).

    I'm all about watching that smash mouth type of strong style wrestling, but I guess after seeing the effects it can have on a body over the years, I'm now in a position where I feel it for these guys a lot more than I used to. For instance, watching Mick Foleys matches back now is hard work because of the legit punishment he went through in some of those crazy spots he used to do regularly, such as the diving elbow off of the apron onto the concrete. Then there's Misawa. His brutal matches softened up his neck to the point where he actually died after taking a "simple" plex that he had taken numerous times before.
    That's what I think to, as long as both men doing/taking the move are happy, then let's go I say. They map out the matches and big spots before hand anyway, so any objections can be cleared up there, and any big/dangerous spots can be arranged before hand with both men giving clearance to it or objecting to something.

    Yeah you only need to look at most DB matches to see that he does indeed pride himself in being a tough guy. He throws himself about a lot. Take that corner dropkick he does for example. He really fully commits when he goes for that, often ending with him coming back off the move and bundling himself up on the landing. He also elects to do the 'shotgun' version of the missile dropkick where he lands on his back rather than twisting in mid air to be able to cushion the face first landing with his hands as most people do with the move.
    On that subject, I don't think the landing chest first of the diving headbut is that bad. You can cushion it with your knees, and you can use your hands/arms too to cushion it as you'd do with a front bump (like people would cushion the bump taken from an inverted Alabama Slam or a Glam Slam). The most trauma is caused to the neck as you mentioned before.

    Things have changed for sure, but it's for the best I think, as the safety of the performers comes first and foremost. Plus it makes it more special when a crazy move is occasionally busted out.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kashdinero View Post
    Lol, I bolded and corrected it to Wild Pegasus from Pegasus kid. He was definitely known as Wild Pegasus by the 1994 SuperJCup. I too have watched that and the 1995 version thousands of times. But the real question is, which of those two were your favourite?
    Yeah, I didn't see that I had called him Kid. It made sense when I read what I wrote and saw your correction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kashdinero View Post
    I prefer the 1994 event. Between Benoit, Sasuke, Eddy, Lyger, and a very young Shinjiro Ohtani, that event was insanely good. The fans on the night were loosing their minds as Sasuke tore through the competition en route to losing to Pegasus in the finals. Jushin Lyger vs The Great Sasuke on that night is still one of my all time favourite matches.

    This was my favorite for sure. GEDO vs. Malenko is so under rated from that card, which makes sense since virtually all of the matches were epic. Many give Malenko the nod of carrying the whole match (remember when Dean used to go to the top rope?), which watching it makes sense, but GEDO screaming in pain sounded freaky. Delphin vs. Shinjiro still stands out. Liger (I can't use the Y because the first match I saw him in was Liger vs. Pillman at Superbrawl) vs. Sasuke was amazing, but if I remember correctly, Sasuke botched either right before or during the finish, didn't he? I loved that match for sure, but Sasuke vs. El Samurai was just as awesome. Sasuke was so loved by that crowd; amazing that they let Pegasus get the win.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kashdinero View Post
    The 1995 event was definitely not without it's own moments, though. The inclusion of Ultimo Dragon being the biggest plus, and his match against a much improved Shinjiro (who is definitely one of my all time favourites) was fantastic. I also think that the wrong person won the tournament, and the lack of an announce team took away from the overal excitement as a fan. What was also a note of interest (especially considering the thread this is being posted in) was the amount of roided muscle that Benoit had put on in the space of one year. His body was almost unrecognisable.

    Damien 666 mocking the Japanese legends was hilarious. I am fond of a few particular matches on this show. Lionheart vs. Wild Pegasus in the second round was amazing; even if Beniot had put on what looked like 50 lbs of muscle mass from the year before. And you speak of the Shinjiro improvement - how fucking amazing was his match with Ultimo in the quarter finals?! Holy fuck, man. Foreshadowing for the match at the J-Crown/G-1 Climax and showed just how great the chemistry the two had. Honestly, once it was established as GEDO vs. Liger, I figured Liger would have won... And honestly thought GEDO was dead after the Fisherman-Buster from the top.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kashdinero View Post
    Side note: the Super J Cup's in 2000 and 2004 were by far inferior shows, although the 2000 show had a few moments worth remembering such as Sano vs Sasukue, an up and coming CIMA's performances (his match vs the freaky Onryu was particularly fun), and the finals between Lyger and Tiger Mask IV.
    I can't actually remember watching those. They will be added to my "soon to watch" list. There are many gaps in the history of NJPW that I need to get caught up on. Same for AJPW as well. Liger vs. Tiger Mask and the rise of CIMA are definately worth checking out though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kashdinero View Post
    Back to Benoit: his feud with Lyger yielded some bonafied classics, and watching them back today and comparing today's Lyger to the guy back then is a joy. Even though he eliminated the high flying spots from his repertoire (such as the Shooting Star Press, a move that he invented), he still managed to have hundreds of exciting matches. The guy managed to take away the moonsaults and replace them with a simple running slap without detracting from the quality of his performances. Something that today's crazy high fliers should study to help maintain their own careers, and something that Benoit should have taken note of and implemented into his own self-punishing act before it was too late.

    The matches with Liger are what made him such a hot product. As I stated before, the first exposure I had to Liger was against Pillman (who I loved when I was a kid) and he blew me away. Such a great look with the mask, his abilities in the ring were beyond amazing, and he had such different matches everytime you watched him. He evolved as a character; both out of the ring and by his in ring moveset/performance. I can see why he is held in such high regard in the Japanese Wrestling Industry.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kashdinero View Post
    Side note 2: Anyone else cringe when they see DB doing the diving head butt? Knowing the damage that it did to Harley Race (who did a middle rope version), Dynamite Kid (who generally landed on his knees with the move), and Benoit himself (who took the move to new heights, literally), I would certainly refrain from using it if I was a wrestler.

    After reading the conversation between you and TT, I am of the belief that a talent knows the risks going into a move. They sign releases and know the potential dangers of the move before they perform it. It would be one thing if we were talking about a pildriver, or another high impact move in which the talent is putting a higher amount of confidence in their opponent who will be performing the move, but this is something in which the damage to the performer is of greater risk than the person taking the move. If this is the case, the performer has the right to accept the risk if they so choose, but I could see why the company would try to protect the wrestlers from essentially themselves.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kashdinero View Post
    It's definitely refreshing conversing with someone who takes levels of wrestling geekery to new plateaus
    Fully agreed. Tis the reason why I paid you the compliment before; it's rare to find people on these forums who are willing to have an adult conversation about wrestling rather than just the "this is my opinion and it's the only one that matters" we tend to encounter on a daily basis.


    Quote Originally Posted by akbar View Post
    I'd rather masturbate to your picture of Carnage.

    Quote Originally Posted by B-MCINTYRE View Post
    DRG hates everyone

  9. #19
    Fresh Member Delohat's Avatar
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    Chris Benoit was my favorite current superstar early in his days, he was extremely entertaining and his style was incredibly unique. Thinking about him leaving us was just sad.
    "I've traveled the world the last few years,
    Sometimes I think of home,
    and even Stone Cold has to fight the tears.
    "


  10. #20
    Amazing wrestler. Wrestling hasn't been the same to me since Eddie and him left us.
    Hey.. I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

    #TeamDevs

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