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  1. #21
    So, the person who reported this was in that Creative Meeting with Vince McMahon? I wish I had those connections.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside Ron Garvin View Post
    So... how was that you NOT saying that they were getting rid of the lables? Great deflection of admitting fault; props for the effort.
    I'm greatly confused. I'm trying to tell you I meant to say the same thing but you're misinterpreting the sentences as two things different. And even after telling you that, you're still doing it. It wasn't a deflection, it's clarification ...

    I am not arguing that Ziggler was a heel, using heel tactics, during his heel run. What I am saying is that he was flipped at the descretion of the WWE (in one of my favorite double turns in a long time). When he cashed in, he was a heel. It wasn't until the Del Rio match in which Ziggler started to act like a babyface (breaking away from Big E and AJ). Once he turned, he fell flat on his face. Why? Because the fan support dropped along the way because smark crowds like to cheer the heels. He wasn't a heel, so he lost the Pop due to not enough people having invested emotionally into that specific version of the Ziggler character.


    I heard this phrase a while back and it rings true; "if you pop, they will push". However, if you run into a situation like with Ziggler, they had nothing in his character that would maintain the fan support of a face character, hence why he dropped so far down the pecking order. Dolph Ziggler is in the same boat as Zack Ryder - a character that had the fans get behind him, but the character didn't really have enough meat on the bones to sustain the popularity. Ziggler is in a better position to rebound, but without the depth in his character he became the next flavor of the month that the WWE fans enjoyed one second and forgot the next. How this supports my claim is in the depth of character and emotional investment; he had no reason or "great moment" that turned him face that made the fans truly invest in him. Daniel Bryan had WM 28 and has built from there. What did Ziggler have to get the fans to invest in him as a face character?
    Sounds like you were agreeing with me, then. Well said.

    I am telling you all of this because you are taking a comment (off of the "dirtsheets" of all places) and speaking of it as fact. That's like taking the National Inquiror as being anything close to fact and not a small truth mixed with a MASSIVE amount of fabrication.


    I honestly find it curious as to why you think that WWE would change the dynamic of how they built their show and essentially trust every member of the roster to "wing it" in order to get over; especially with the characters they are building in NXT, the character training they host at the Development Center, as well as the fact that they are in a situation to negotiate a MAJOR new contract on their network deals for the next decade. Sure, you can look for the silver lining in that you feel the talent can accomplish this - some of which can in the likes of a Punk, Jericho, Cena, Kane, Bryan, etc... - even though you see guys like Miz, Ziggler, and others who can't seem to do these things without having a step by step manual or creative telling them exactly what to say and how to say it. Like I said, I think you are looking into something on a deeper level than anything close to what was intended... All based off of an unsourced "comment" that was passed along 3rd hand to a dirtsheet.
    And when did I ever say this was true? Dude, it's a discussion. I'm not speaking of it as "fact" but simply as a topic of discussion. Hell, it could be false, and if it is, then good. What if this WAS a reality? How would it shape the business? For the best, or the worse? That's all. It's nothing all that complicated. I'm not getting anything beneficial out of this personally. No one is going to look at me as some guru of wrestling.
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  3. #23
    God merhardt03's Avatar
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    Without a story of good vs bad, wrestling is just 2 men rolling around in their underwear!

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by merhardt03 View Post
    Without a story of good vs bad, wrestling is just 2 men rolling around in their underwear!
    Yeah. Bad vs good has been the natural dichotomy since the beginning of pro wrestling. I don't see that changing. I think Vince was making more to the fact that line is becoming blurred as people aren't buying the traditional heel and face roles from certain characters anymore. A good portion of fans don't buy the Cena Superman gimmick anymore and haven't for quite some time. Neither do fans have the same natural hatred for heels and love for faces. They kind of just jump on the bandwagon of people they like regardless of how the WWE books their characters.

  5. #25
    Imagine....

    Wrestling gets real.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jelle1809 View Post
    Imagine....

    Wrestling gets real.
    it should be more neutral

  7. #27
    God merhardt03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jelle1809 View Post
    Imagine....

    Wrestling gets real.
    people still wouldnt believe it haha.

  8. #28
    This would explain why Miz and Kofi kept jumping back and forth with their 'changes'.
    Hey.. I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

    #TeamDevs

  9. #29
    Black Ninja! Cabers's Avatar
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    Sounds ridiculous but we will see eventually.

  10. #30
    The Trinity URATOOL's Avatar
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    I love how some of you have taken a few words, without knowing the contextual surroundings statements and extrapolated a meaning you now believe firmly.

    For all you know Vince may just mean he doesn't want to hear the words good or bad guys in creative meetings. Maybe he wants them renamed heroes and villians!

    Seeing as he distanced the company from wrestling a while back and decided to make it 'sports entertainment' it's unlike he'd remove a key part of that entertainment value. The great good verses evil dynamic.

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