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  1. #1

    No More Babyfaces And Heels In WWE?

    This news just came out from The Wrestling Observer Newsletter:

    Source: The Wrestling Observer Newsletter

    -- During a recent WWE creative meeting, Vince McMahon noted that there are no more babyfaces and heels. Many were completely puzzled by that statement. Examples of this are The Miz, Kofi Kingston and Antonio Cesaro.
    So pretty much, WWE will no longer be labeling any of their talents good guys or bad guys. How do you guys feel about this? I think has its perks. Now fans can truly decide who is worth cheering and who is not based off of how good this talent is. It leaves a lot of room for talent to be themselves and not be forced to play roles the WWE makes them play. Talents who are better as heels can BE assholes and dicks and get the reactions they want. Talents who want to be loved and adored can be those talents that fans love and adore. I have no idea how this is going to work, but it could do some good for the TV product.

    Even if it's false, it's worth discussing. Your thoughts?
    Last edited by Wrestling_Deluxe_08; 12-27-2013 at 12:06 AM.
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  2. #2
    Moderator Robstar's Avatar
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    Imagine the amount of Anti-Cena fans out there going, "So now they don't care if we boo Cena? What will be the point?" But seriously, unless they make some sort of distinction, the fans will eventually not know who they shouldn't be cheering (for hipster fans, it's the ones that the company says you should be).

    What's next? Give them all the same titantron, theme and outfits?? Give everyone a belt? I don't know if this makes a great amount of sense.



  3. #3
    God merhardt03's Avatar
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    I wouldn't read too much into that. Good vs Bad is basic wrestling psychology. The line have been blurred now more thn ever but its an essential part of wrestling.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrestling_Deluxe_08 View Post
    This news just came out from The Wrestling Observer Newsletter:



    So pretty much, WWE will no longer be labeling any of their talents good guys or bad guys. How do you guys feel about this? I think has its perks. Now fans can truly decide who is worth cheering and who is not based off of how good this talent is. It leaves a lot of room for talent to be themselves and not be forced to play roles the WWE makes them play. Talents who are better as heels can BE assholes and dicks and get the reactions they want. Talents who want to be loved and adored can be those talents that fans love and adore. I have no idea how this is going to work, but it could do some good for the TV product.

    Even if it's false, it's worth discussing. Your thoughts?
    If you honestly believe this then good luck. Everything has a good and bad guy. There is no alternative. If nobody is good or bad what are they? Neutral? The whole allure with wrestling was to build a bad guy beating up the fan favorite, with the fan favorite eventually beating the heel. It just doesn't work as well if both competitors are equally liked.
    Oh and people decide who is worth cheering? So we see tyson kidd twice a year and love him for what reason? We THINK he's great in the ring because a bunch of internet fans love him? I've never seen a reason to love Tyson besides from people on here liking him.
    Austin got over because he was thrilling to watch. Daniel bryan will never be as over as stone cold because let's face it; he's not austin. He will never be THAT over. We can chant his name as much as we want, but he will never be Austin over.
    WWE showed recently with Del Rio and Orton that this statement is false. Del rio's music had a overhaul when he became a face. It went from a slower beat to a quicker, more uplifting beat. ( The first theme was much better).
    Orton was a "snake" that was the main face of smackdown for ages. Suddenly he becomes the main heel on Raw without changing anything at all. All he does is make comments towards the fans.
    If there's no heels, does this mean anyone who makes negative comments towards fans is now being neutral? Can cena now abuse fans and be a face because vince decides this? No. Fans will boo cena even more and this would make him a bad guy. To an extent fans decide faces and heels. So as much as vince wants to control fans, sometimes he has less control than he thinks.
    Last edited by Lowki; 12-27-2013 at 12:31 AM.

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  5. #5
    I think you are reading too much into it bro. Vince never said "let's get rid of the heel/face dynamic" because that would shred the fabric that his show is built on. No hero and villain means no emotional investment into the character - just Action Figure X vs. Cookie Cut Y.


    If you look at what he is being quoted as saying, it is that the characters (Miz, Kofi, Cesaro) aren't defined one way of the other. He could have made this statement as in it needs to be fixed. Or he could have said that this is exactly what he wants. At this moment, we don't have a direct quote or his opinion on the topic; just that he noted it in a meeting. I wouldn't think of this as VKM claiming that he wants to get rid of the character definitions to make it about who the fans care about the most and look at it more along the lines of at least he is paying attention to just how his characters are being portrayed to the audience.


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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside Ron Garvin View Post
    I think you are reading too much into it bro. Vince never said "let's get rid of the heel/face dynamic" because that would shred the fabric that his show is built on. No hero and villain means no emotional investment into the character - just Action Figure X vs. Cookie Cut Y.


    If you look at what he is being quoted as saying, it is that the characters (Miz, Kofi, Cesaro) aren't defined one way of the other. He could have made this statement as in it needs to be fixed. Or he could have said that this is exactly what he wants. At this moment, we don't have a direct quote or his opinion on the topic; just that he noted it in a meeting. I wouldn't think of this as VKM claiming that he wants to get rid of the character definitions to make it about who the fans care about the most and look at it more along the lines of at least he is paying attention to just how his characters are being portrayed to the audience.
    You misunderstood. I never said he was getting rid of it all together, nor did I interpret it that way .... I explained in my post that I believe that WWE is simply going to STOP labeling talents as bad guys and good guys and allow the talents to play whatever role the want to play or act however they want to act. If they're comfortable being fan favorites, then be fan favorites. If they want to be villains, then they can be villains. I doubt Damien Sandow is going to stop being a dick and just wrestle by the time RAW comes around ...

    Faces and heels are labels created from inside the company. They don't really apply to us, the fans. If the labels go, then its all on the talents to create the reactions the fans get. In other words, no fabric of good and evil is being taken away.
    Last edited by Wrestling_Deluxe_08; 12-27-2013 at 12:56 AM.
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  7. #7
    the anti-cena thing works. remember wwe were selling those shirts. to me, it make sense, since people cheer for who they want or give a negative reaction to others

  8. #8
    Black Ninja!! SilverGhost's Avatar
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    Pretty much like other posters here, they aren't getting rid of the basic story of good vs evil. I do like(I hope) that they are getting rid of the barrier or the lead on that the wrestlers is good or bad. Let the crowd decide.



  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrestling_Deluxe_08 View Post
    First off, I never said he was getting rid of it all together ....
    Let's check the original post, shall we?



    Quote Originally Posted by Wrestling_Deluxe_08 View Post
    So pretty much, WWE will no longer be labeling any of their talents good guys or bad guys.
    So, how is this not saying that they are getting rid of the labels?.. But let us proceed, shall we?



    Quote Originally Posted by Wrestling_Deluxe_08 View Post
    I explained in my post that I believe that WWE is simply going to STOP labeling talents as bad guys and good guys and allow the talents to play whatever role the want to play or act however they want to act. If they're comfortable being fan favorites, then be fan favorites.

    So you are talking about giving creative control to the talent then; something that VKM and WWE is FIRMLY against? Or are you saying that WWE is going look at a talent (like Roman Reigns for example), give him the up and down, and say, "you know what, Reigns might be the next big baby face star we have on the roster, but we're not going to put him in that position because he said that he'd rather play a heel... I guess we'll just keep looking for a guy who likes to play the fan favorite." That sounds EXACTLY like what VKM was saying in that news clip.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wrestling_Deluxe_08 View Post
    Faces and heels are labels created from inside the company. They don't really apply to us, the fans. If the labels go, then its all on the talents to create the reactions the fans get. In other words, no fabric of good and evil is being taken away.

    Faces and heels are labels given to a talent to see if they can get that character over in that way. It is also a response to either creative direction or crowd response. Take Ziggler for example; he had a good run going as the arrogant heel. The fans got behind him (some claim due to work ethic; I say because it's cool to cheer the heels from all the pre-teen to early 20 year olds who care more about themselves than the actually wrestling show) and so they flipped him after the cash in. Sure, Ziggler had the injury, but the wind was already taken out of his sails because the flip for Ziggler was artificial. It was the result of the smarky crowds wanting what they want and Ziggler has suffer since. Don't tell me that it's because of the booking, because Ziggler was booked like shit during his heel run and still got over. It's because the fans got what they wanted in a moment that he wasn't ready for. Del Rio, however, was put in a higher light because of that double turn because he was ready for the turn.


    As for your "no good or evil" bit, tell me something. How do you get fans to invest into the inring match if there is no emotional attachment to the character? How does the promo dynamic work if both guys are just two guys involved in a fake fight? The heel/face dynamic is something like UFC isn't NEEDED but it makes it that much more enjoyable to see a cocky Silva/GSP/Penn/Mir or whoever get their ass handed to them by the underdog/good guy. The reason why it isn't needed is because UFC is a legit fight between two guys in which the winner is either the best contestant or determined by the judges (who more often than not are the heels in the dynamic; even if it isn't intended). This doesn't work for a program in which the winners of the match is already predetermined before they ever step into the ring.


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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrestling_Deluxe_08 View Post
    Vince McMahon noted that there are no more babyfaces and heels.
    1. this is not true
    2. this will never happen
    Respect the beard !

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