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  1. #41
    The Trinity URATOOL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside Ron Garvin View Post
    My view of a successful championship reign might differ from yours so let me clarify; a successful title reign is one that involves defending the title against differing opponents (featuring a selective few programs with specific individuals to focus around the desire for said title), it helps to build up both the public view of the athlete AND the title, and it helps to elevate both the athlete in the future as well as his successor (for a small window before the successor has to prove his worth in carrying the belt on his own) when the title changes hands. This may be a "classic" view on things, but it is how I see it.


    That being said, let's say (for the sake of argument), you become a fan of Country music. You go out and buy the cowboy hats, the boots, the belt buckles, even purchasing an "old, beat up Chevy" because of how much you say you love Country music. You can list off the top country music stars; past and present. You proudly wear your clothes to bars, tipping your hat to every female you see. To those who pass you by, you indeed look like a "country music fan". This is the equivalent of what you are saying Cody did by "referencing the title, being confident in his reign, and changing the belt design (a decision that was not made by Rhodes)."


    Now let me pose this question; would you be a country music fan if you never listened to country music, bought a country mp3, or attended a country music concert? Relate this back to Cody with the belt for a second; is he a "successful InterContinental Champion" if he never defended the belt? This isn't a debate on how Cody "carried around the belt"; it's about the reign of an IC champion. Cody walked in his boots, he told all those who would listen about how much he cared about something, and he even changed the look to fit what the appearance SHOULD be, but does that alone make his reign "successful" to you? If so, then we have differing opinions, which is why I explained my definition of a "successful title reign". My point wasn't to slander Rhodes but to bring to light the fact that Barrett has done over 50% (in regards to defending) in his reign as champion in 90 days than what Cody did in 200+... Minus being the one who held the belt when creative decided to change the belt design, talk about the prop he was currently holding (which Barrett does as well), and come across as a "confident individual."
    A title defences vs length of reign ratio became irrelevant when they shelved the hardcore and TV titles. Very rarely are any of the titles defended outside of PPVs these days. The top tier titles are defended every PPV and the mid card titles are defended 'most' PPVs. So if you held a belt for 6 months you'll only defend it 4 or 5 times.

    You may think that previous IC champs use to defend them all the time, but that is just your nostalgic memory playing tricks on you. No IC champ that I can think of defended his title regularly outside of PPVs. Now in this PPV heavy modern schedule it's hardly surprising the odd PPV defence gets skipped.

  2. #42
    The Trinity URATOOL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Thunder View Post
    DRG vs TOOL. Too long have I waited to see these two debate against each other
    He likes country music. It could get nasty.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by URATOOL View Post
    A title defences vs length of reign ratio became irrelevant when they shelved the hardcore and TV titles. Very rarely are any of the titles defended outside of PPVs these days. The top tier titles are defended every PPV and the mid card titles are defended 'most' PPVs. So if you held a belt for 6 months you'll only defend it 4 or 5 times.

    I see the perspective you are viewing it from, but I disagree for the following reason. Rhodes had 3 of his 4 title defenses at PPVs (Night of Champions, HIAC, and WM28), yes. However, while there were events like the Survivor Series and Royal Rumble in between, the IC title had a 5 month hiatus from being defended on a PPV (HIAC until WM28), nor was the belt defended or featured at anytime on RAW/SD during this 5 month hiatus (unless you count the 10 battle royal as his 5th title defense). Cody WAS featured in matches on 3 of the 5 PPVs in between (RR, SS, EC) and prominently on RAW/SD in tag team matches. This was Cody focusing on Cody, not his reign being about the IC title as you claimed.


    Quote Originally Posted by URATOOL View Post
    You may think that previous IC champs use to defend them all the time, but that is just your nostalgic memory playing tricks on you. No IC champ that I can think of defended his title regularly outside of PPVs. Now in this PPV heavy modern schedule it's hardly surprising the odd PPV defence gets skipped.

    You would think this is nostalgic, but it’s a bit more modern than given credit for;

    Dolf Ziggler (07/28/2010 – 01/04/2011)
    TV – 4 title defenses
    110 day reign.

    Morrison (09/01/2009 – 12/13/2009)
    TV – 4 title defenses
    103 day reign

    Hardy (09/02/2007 – 03/10/2008)
    TV – 4 title defenses
    109 day reign

    I wouldn’t call 5 years a nostalgic point of view, especially when the last one occurred less than 2 years ago in Ziggles when he defended the belt 8 times in the 16 weeks he was holding it (4 television defenses and 4 PPV defenses). Not for nothing, this is just the difference in how we view things which is perfectly acceptable to me, but by calling Rhodes a “dominant and successful IC champion” is the equivalent (my opinion) of calling Devon a “dominant and successful TV champion” in his current reign for TNA; he might not have changed the belt style, but he is in just as many tag matches and is seen carrying a prop just as much as Rhodes did during his IC title reign.



    Quote Originally Posted by URATOOL View Post
    He likes country music. It could get nasty.
    Actually, I am not (even though I live in Texas) but the clothing and life style that comes with country music is easier to describe than the Death Metal I was originally going to use for my scenario.


    Quote Originally Posted by akbar View Post
    I'd rather masturbate to your picture of Carnage.

    Quote Originally Posted by B-MCINTYRE View Post
    DRG hates everyone

  4. #44
    Black Ninja! Tommy Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockstar83 View Post
    Barrett is a great wrestler he needs The Wasteland as his finisher not the hand bull elbow thing.
    You're not serious I hope?
    Fans here were in the masses saying that Wasteland was a bad finisher and calling for him to use something new. Now that he's done that (not to mention that his current finisher fits with his bare knuckle brawling background), you're telling me he needs to change it back?
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again; there really is NO pleasing some fans.
    Want to join EWN's original e-fed? Join EWNCW NOW!
    Want details? Just ask me!


  5. #45
    The Trinity URATOOL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside Ron Garvin View Post
    I see the perspective you are viewing it from, but I disagree for the following reason. Rhodes had 3 of his 4 title defenses at PPVs (Night of Champions, HIAC, and WM28), yes. However, while there were events like the Survivor Series and Royal Rumble in between, the IC title had a 5 month hiatus from being defended on a PPV (HIAC until WM28), nor was the belt defended or featured at anytime on RAW/SD during this 5 month hiatus (unless you count the 10 battle royal as his 5th title defense). Cody WAS featured in matches on 3 of the 5 PPVs in between (RR, SS, EC) and prominently on RAW/SD in tag team matches. This was Cody focusing on Cody, not his reign being about the IC title as you claimed.





    You would think this is nostalgic, but it’s a bit more modern than given credit for;

    Dolf Ziggler (07/28/2010 – 01/04/2011)
    TV – 4 title defenses
    110 day reign.

    Morrison (09/01/2009 – 12/13/2009)
    TV – 4 title defenses
    103 day reign

    Hardy (09/02/2007 – 03/10/2008)
    TV – 4 title defenses
    109 day reign

    I wouldn’t call 5 years a nostalgic point of view, especially when the last one occurred less than 2 years ago in Ziggles when he defended the belt 8 times in the 16 weeks he was holding it (4 television defenses and 4 PPV defenses). Not for nothing, this is just the difference in how we view things which is perfectly acceptable to me, but by calling Rhodes a “dominant and successful IC champion” is the equivalent (my opinion) of calling Devon a “dominant and successful TV champion” in his current reign for TNA; he might not have changed the belt style, but he is in just as many tag matches and is seen carrying a prop just as much as Rhodes did during his IC title reign.





    Actually, I am not (even though I live in Texas) but the clothing and life style that comes with country music is easier to describe than the Death Metal I was originally going to use for my scenario.
    5 month PPV hiatus between HIAC and WM28?? Really?

    Surviver Series: The IC has only been defended once in the last 8 years and that was a throw away match with Kaval as the challenger. Remember him? Little fella. Got sacked not long after that.
    TLC - Defended against Booker T
    Royal Rumble - You need to go back 11 years to see an IC match at the Rumble. Regal vs Edge 2002.
    Elimination Chamber - I'll give you that one.

    So out of the 4 PPVs that make up the 5 month hiatus you claim, Cody defended at one of the middle ones and two of the remaining 3 are PPVs the IC title rarely if ever gets defended at these days. And I'm supposed to take your other stats at face value??

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by URATOOL View Post
    5 month PPV hiatus between HIAC and WM28?? Really?

    Surviver Series: The IC has only been defended once in the last 8 years and that was a throw away match with Kaval as the challenger. Remember him? Little fella. Got sacked not long after that.
    TLC - Defended against Booker T
    Royal Rumble - You need to go back 11 years to see an IC match at the Rumble. Regal vs Edge 2002.
    Elimination Chamber - I'll give you that one.

    So out of the 4 PPVs that make up the 5 month hiatus you claim, Cody defended at one of the middle ones and two of the remaining 3 are PPVs the IC title rarely if ever gets defended at these days. And I'm supposed to take your other stats at face value??
    I will admit I missed the TLC defense against Booker; my apologies. What IS curious though is why you would be reluctant to both (a) count the Benjamin vs. Christian match which falls in that 8 year category you are giving, and (b) consider the match with Booker T a "credible defense" when you consider Ziggler vs. Kaval a throw away match; both matches had the same predictable outcome and the idea of a lead SmackDown announcer dethroning Cody wasn't the least bit logical.

    From the best of my understanding is that the IC and US title defenses were (at first) being rotated during the Brand Split era for PPV's which is why you'd see more IC title defenses at SummerSlam and more US title defenses at Royal Rumble (but I COULD be mistaken on this; it is just the pattern seen in the booking based on both when the titles were defended and who the champion was at the time.)


    And you can take my facts however you please (you'll never know until you do the research yourself) but my point still remains that Cody's reign was never about the IC title and always about transitioning Cody from Orton Lackey, to Credible Threat to Orton (top mid-card to lower Main Event). It's the same reason why he went from Legacy Cody, to Dashing (which is when he won the belt; after this gimmick got some backing), to the mask, to a 40 min run in the Royal Rumble, to Pinning Show at EC; it was done to make Cody look good, which it was successful at. But this is remembered as the time in which Cody went through his metamorphosis, not the time that Cody reigned as a dominant IC title holder.


    Quote Originally Posted by akbar View Post
    I'd rather masturbate to your picture of Carnage.

    Quote Originally Posted by B-MCINTYRE View Post
    DRG hates everyone

  7. #47
    The Trinity URATOOL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside Ron Garvin View Post
    I will admit I missed the TLC defense against Booker; my apologies. What IS curious though is why you would be reluctant to both (a) count the Benjamin vs. Christian match which falls in that 8 year category you are giving, and (b) consider the match with Booker T a "credible defense" when you consider Ziggler vs. Kaval a throw away match; both matches had the same predictable outcome and the idea of a lead SmackDown announcer dethroning Cody wasn't the least bit logical.

    From the best of my understanding is that the IC and US title defenses were (at first) being rotated during the Brand Split era for PPV's which is why you'd see more IC title defenses at SummerSlam and more US title defenses at Royal Rumble (but I COULD be mistaken on this; it is just the pattern seen in the booking based on both when the titles were defended and who the champion was at the time.)


    And you can take my facts however you please (you'll never know until you do the research yourself) but my point still remains that Cody's reign was never about the IC title and always about transitioning Cody from Orton Lackey, to Credible Threat to Orton (top mid-card to lower Main Event). It's the same reason why he went from Legacy Cody, to Dashing (which is when he won the belt; after this gimmick got some backing), to the mask, to a 40 min run in the Royal Rumble, to Pinning Show at EC; it was done to make Cody look good, which it was successful at. But this is remembered as the time in which Cody went through his metamorphosis, not the time that Cody reigned as a dominant IC title holder.
    Every title run is done to increase the profile of the performer. No title run has ever happened to make the title look good. Titles were created as a vehicle for improving the storylines of characters. Not the other way around. how have you missed that fundamental basic of 'pro' wrestling?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by URATOOL View Post
    Every title run is done to increase the profile of the performer. No title run has ever happened to make the title look good. Titles were created as a vehicle for improving the storylines of characters. Not the other way around. how have you missed that fundamental basic of 'pro' wrestling?

    So there has never been title holder who made having the belt seem as though the whole point of being in wrestling in general? There have never been athletes who made the title seem like the prize to desire and aspire to one day hold? So when HBK was holding the IC title, not one person cared to be the guy who took it off of him? When Cena was running with the US title, there were no points in which challengers would step up in hopes to relieve him of his tagline, "Champion".


    So in your version of wrestling, guys are just rolling around half naked with no purpose other than to be featured on camera more than the next guy... Your version of wrestling appears to be closer to a flick shot in the silicon valley as opposed to a show claiming itself to be "sports entertainment"; in almost anything I have ever come across with the label "sports" involved, there is always a prize award that one athlete strives to achieve.


    Quote Originally Posted by akbar View Post
    I'd rather masturbate to your picture of Carnage.

    Quote Originally Posted by B-MCINTYRE View Post
    DRG hates everyone

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Thunder View Post
    DRG vs TOOL. Too long have I waited to see these two debate against each other
    there post are way to long for me to get into them.

  10. #50
    The Trinity URATOOL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkside Ron Garvin View Post
    So there has never been title holder who made having the belt seem as though the whole point of being in wrestling in general? There have never been athletes who made the title seem like the prize to desire and aspire to one day hold? So when HBK was holding the IC title, not one person cared to be the guy who took it off of him? When Cena was running with the US title, there were no points in which challengers would step up in hopes to relieve him of his tagline, "Champion".


    So in your version of wrestling, guys are just rolling around half naked with no purpose other than to be featured on camera more than the next guy... Your version of wrestling appears to be closer to a flick shot in the silicon valley as opposed to a show claiming itself to be "sports entertainment"; in almost anything I have ever come across with the label "sports" involved, there is always a prize award that one athlete strives to achieve.
    Every title in sports entertainment is merely a way of raising a competitor above their peers for an amount of time. Nothing more. A good title run is all about how entertaining the performer is during their reign. A heel run with a title, where they avoid defending as often as they can, can actually be more entertaining than a bland run with loads of predictable or boring defences. Frequency of defences is a ridiculous marker of entertainment. Titles are purely props in pro wrestling. Nothing more.

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