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  1. #41
    God Dubs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonsrevenge View Post
    Except it didnt work, as he wasn't booed by the majority of the fans; had all the fans behind him. Doing heel things doesnt mean anything if you can't get the crowd to turn on you. The Rock was still loved by the majority of the fans despite his whole hollywood thing, so that didnt go over quite well. Hogan had a ring full of garbage thrown at him. That worked.
    I already stated the reason why Stone Cold's heel turn didn't work. It had very little to do with him not getting over as a heel because he was playing a heel very well. It had much to do with him not wanting to be a heel. It's no secret that Austin was very protective of his spot and didn't want anyone taking his spot as the top guy during the Attitude Era. That's why he quickly turned back as a face once the Invasion angle ended. Stone Cold was still a great heel though.

    The Rock wasn't loved by the majority by the fans when he was a heel back in 2003. He still got great heel heat as well (see his heel promo in Toranto on Raw) but SOME of the fans still wanted to cheer him because he was The Rock.

    As for Hogan's heel turn, yes, he indeed had garbage thrown at him by the majority of the fans but you also seen the WCW audience wearing NWO shirts and also doing the NWO hand gesture with Hogan along with the Outsiders. The crowd was split when it came to cheering or booing for the NWO. They still did a great job as heels.

    I'll admit that punk is more over as a bad guy now than Rock or SCSA were, but when they have him mock Lawler's heart attack, thats how you know He's not quite there.
    CM Punk's character was still getting heel heat even before he did that promo on Lawler so I'm not understand how he wasn't over as a heel when he already is over as a heel. He still gets the crowd to hate him because he is playing the ultimate bad guy. The fan incident where a bunch of fans were trying to heckle him by hitting him is proof that hes playing a great heel right now.

    L;DR: Doing heel things + majority of fans cheer != not over as a heel
    Expect for the fact that the majority of the audience aren't cheering for CM Punk. Hes still getting a lot of heel heat. You're always going to have some fans who cheer for heels just because they see their heel work as cool and also to go against the grain. Doesn't mean that said heel isn't doing his/her job as a heel.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Cena rapping on Paul Heyman
    You see I don't need your approval Paul. I'm gonna take my respect. I'll bounce you quicker than an ECW check.

  2. #42
    Moderator Robstar's Avatar
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    I wouldn't bother Dubs. Some people see things as black and white only and there's no getting through to them. I believe this is the case here. They revise things to suit themselves. It's why the world is still so backwards in so many places

  3. #43
    The lack of a cheerable face is what's stopping Punk. People aren't sold on Ryback just yet and any male who's a fan of wrestling and over the age of 12 hates Cena. Sheamus is stale and cheesy, Randy Orton is boring, etc etc etc. I think there's too much of a social stigma that cheering for a face makes you a tool, but to be fair WWE doesn't seem to know how to build a cool face anymore. Ryback's really the closest but he's new.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubs View Post
    I already stated the reason why Stone Cold's heel turn didn't work. It had very little to do with him not getting over as a heel because he was playing a heel very well. It had much to do with him not wanting to be a heel. It's no secret that Austin was very protective of his spot and didn't want anyone taking his spot as the top guy during the Attitude Era. That's why he quickly turned back as a face once the Invasion angle ended. Stone Cold was still a great heel though.
    The only time i remember him getting heat was the whiny bitch angle with Steph and two man power trip (which eventually got the "cool Heel" cheers). That is also true about his spot; That's why he left when they wanted to put Lesnar over him, it was all spot related.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubs View Post
    As for Hogan's heel turn, yes, he indeed had garbage thrown at him by the majority of the fans but you also seen the WCW audience wearing NWO shirts and also doing the NWO hand gesture with Hogan along with the Outsiders. The crowd was split when it came to cheering or booing for the NWO. They still did a great job as heels.
    Also agreed. NWO got mixed reactions everywhere. The initial shock led to the garbage being thrown at Hogan, but after a few months people eventually began cheering for the NWO; who wouldn't? They had Hogan, Nash and Hall, who were amongst the biggest names of the early 90s!


    I think these days, people just don't understand what a heel is. Heels generally get heat from the casual viewers! But there will always be the minority that love to go against the grain and enjoy edgier characters. They are generally the 18-45 demographic.
    Just because a heel gets cheered doesn't mean he isn't being a good heel! I think Punk's done a great job though. He's one of the most entertaining to watch, but i still wouldn't hate it if Cena won. That's definitely opposite to what i felt several months back! Job Done. Punk's pretty much made me okay to Cena actually winning, for once.

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  5. #45
    Black Ninja! AshleyPunk's Avatar
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    He has a large fan base that will never turn there back on him bad decisions, good decisions, face or heel..WWE can try but, they won't succeed, he is far to well liked for that to happen


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  6. #46
    Let's compare him to other WWE heels - Triple H was THE WWE heel for years. Did fans cheer him? Hell, yeah! Did that turn him babyface or make him an unsuccessful heel? I don't see how. Having been at the Oakland CA show the night that Punk was attacked, I can tell you that people started off that show wanting to cheer him and Punk turned that around by heel-ing it up so that the crowd was boo-ing him by the end of his first promo, and all through the rest of the show.

    So the crowd is going along with his heel persona - booing the crap out of him - and his DVD is extraordinarily successful sales-wise - and people are questioning whether he is over as a heel? Why? He's over as a heel - AND he could turn face in a split second, if there was some reason why he should, and have the crowd fully behind him. That's pretty good.

  7. #47
    He's saying Heelish things but people identify with them. When he's saying to Cena "you main event when you shouldn't..... I'm better than you...... you've had too many title shots" the large portion of the fan base that boos Cena on a regular basis identify with Punk. Until they do something about people booing Cena there's no point in trying to stop people cheering Punk, if your top face is getting a mixed reaction your top Heel will as well. I think to a degree it's an intention, Heels and faces both sell merch these days, when I saw the WWE during the attitude era Y2J was a heel, I bought a shirt and it was one of about 5 or 6 visible in the crowd, now you see lots of Miz, Punk and Ziggler shirts in the audience, of course heels are getting cheered. You don't spend money buying merchandise for someone you're going to boo

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