Completely agree with what you've said here; I always thought it was a bit rushed having The Shield split without a face run (said as much in my latest blog post that I submitted over a week ago but STILL hasn't been published).
They are three of the best up and coming talents WWE has right now; admittedly I'd be happier seeing Seth Rollins as the breakout star but understand why WWE is backing Reigns. The possibilities are exciting for what can be done with a face Shield; either as renegades truly acting for justice this time around or as the muscle for a returning face Vince McMahon. The split, handled rightly, can still be huge; possibly even bigger due to where their story goes in either of the scenarios I've just laid out.
Great post btw.
Originally Posted by TheGreatOne
Yea, I forgot about the One Night Only things with Bulldog. That was right before the Survivor Series Screwjob which just added fuel to the fire for the Hart/HBK rivalry. As far as Flair goes, didn't know some of the things you mentioned as far as Dusty along with Sting situation. WWE always brings up WCW putting their championship on their TV saying how much of a bad thing it was and they put their world title on their show claiming to be real worlds champion. That is how WWE writes the story though.
HHH, I just never really cared for. Not a big fan and never a guy who I could really get behind. He just was never 1 of the guys who you wanted to act like which is how my fan favs are. How 1 could be a fan of HHH over The Rock baffles me? At the time it did, but I can understand why not to like The Rock because the movies. I'm a fan of Bryan, Ziggler, Punk, ect. I like the reaction that Bryan gets even as a heel when he'd scream No to fans when he was called goat face. Of course I like doing the finger yes thing. I like doing Punk's clobbering time along with best in the world attitude. Showoff telling everyone how good he is by backing it up in the ring every single night. HHH just never did have anything about him I liked. I remember more Flair promos telling us how good he was than HHH ones. Why are you a fan of HHH?
Well; first off let me say that I am a fan of the same guys you listed. I'm into wrestlers that have a bit of everything about them; but match quality and promo skills always factor more into my consideration. As a result I am also a fan of Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, The Undertaker, Edge, Austin, Eddie Guerrero and Mick Foley going back; and currently (as well as Punk, Bryan and Ziggler) I rate Seth Rollins (as well as the rest of The Shield; but he's the standout for me), Cesaro, Kurt Angle, Bobby Roode and Austin Aries.
When it comes to Triple H; I first started to get into him during his feud with Mick Foley before DX was first formed. He showed a lot more during that series than he'd ever had the chance to with the lame Greenwich snob gimmick before; intense matches with a solid, realistic heel attitude.
Then came DX; which I was a huge mark for. Especially the second incarnation of Triple H, Chyna, X-Pac and The New Age Outlaws; they were a big part of my growing up and I felt it was clear Triple H was the standout of the group. He had one of my favorite matches of the Attitude Era when he had the ladder match with The Rock at Summerslam for the IC title; and at the time it felt like his rivalry with The Rock was going to be that generations Bret and Shawn rivalry.
Then, when he broke away from DX, turned heel and went after the heavyweight title I think he launched himself into a different stratosphere; he was the best heel in the business with a relatively simple gimmick and promo style. He was the badass that believed he was the best and would do anything to maintain that status; and he went on to be in some of my favorite matches. He had stellar feuds and matches with Austin, Foley, Rock, Flair, Angle, Michaels and The Undertaker over the years; and had a decent old school promo style that I found more effective than the catchphrase laden efforts of some of his contemporaries. Then, on the occasions he turned face, he adapted that and, in my opinion, could be funny as hell sometimes; all while still keeping the edge that he'd built as a heel.
Did I get sick of him on top? Yes; he hogged the spotlight too much at times, definitely. But the facts, as I see them, are that he was better than most both in the ring and on the mike; and was easily the best heel of his generation.
Do I agree with his backstage antics and political power plays? No, of course not; but I watch wrestling to be entertained and because I love the art form. I keep my opinions of the real person out of it as much as I can; as I feel it isn't really relative to the product. You could trawl through the private lives of any figure in any form of entertainment and find reasons to dislike them; I personally can't stand the musician Sting as a person but The Police are one of my favorite bands.
To draw a lone under what I'm saying because I feel I'm getting a little ponderous; I'm a fan of Triple H because he was a damn fine wrestler, mike man and easily the best heel of his generation. He was involved in a great deal of my favorite matches and angles over the years and I feel that gets overlooked too much when you factor in the other things.
I don't expect people to agree with me or completely change their mind on him based on what I'm saying; all art is subjective and you like what you like. But I just wanted to say to the IWC as a whole (especially when I read peoples comments on articles about Triple H) why not just take a step back from the justifiable hate and judge his in ring work on it's own merits? I know everyone won't be a fan for different reasons; but don't let the other BS put you off from experiencing a good back catalog of matches and angles and giving a little credit (no matter how begrudging) where it may or may not be due.
Hopefully that's understandable and I haven't rambled too much for you; fell free to ask me to expand on anything.
All the best
P.S: Apologies for the delay in my response; have been having a hell of a time lately and have had very little time to do anything I wanted to. I may not always be on the ball but I will get back to you eventually; thanks again for taking part in the conversation.
Originally Posted by CandieLand
I for one don't like Hogan and am not exactly jumping for joy that he is back so you will see no praise towards him from me. I'm sure the majority of top talents have at sometime tried to use their power to keep someone down or get their way; i mean Cena has been accused of this many times; Alex Riley being one example (which is probably the only one i will thank Cena for if true) . Orton as well after the mishap with Kofi Kingston. As you said it is part of the business unfortunately.
I think the main reason he garners so much hatred is, in my opinion, is his tendency to over indulge in the product. He deserves to be a pivotal part of the company, but all the time? He is basically always there. And that would be fine if everything he did was great, but it's not. He has been playing the heel really well as of late, but i don't see him as that big of a draw which leads to me to think why is he thrust into matches as special guest referee? Or why does he need to be involved in a certain angle? Although some of the angles he has been involved in have been good, i really think he needs to pick and choose rather than just do everything I don't think he does himself any favors whatsoever. Sometimes fans need to be relieved of his own ego that he forces down our throats. He is always there seemingly craving attention.
I agree with your point; there were times over the years that even I as a fan got sick of him constantly being involved in everything. But, again, hasn't every top star with the exception of maybe Flair and Austin had periods where they kept themselves at the center of things? Again we seem more willing to forgive and forget with other names than with Triple H; though I agree he has done it more than most.
As for his involvement in the current angles he's involved in; to me it's WWE trying to paper over the fact that they're essentially rehashing the Mr. McMahon/Heel GM character again. They were going to put someone in that role; so why not someone who's an effective heel like Triple H? Given his status as an executive it makes sense to the logic of the storyline; plus it let's Vince comeback as a face when he eventually comes back on TV. The McMahon's love to put themselves at the center of the main storyline; but I think, if they handle it correctly, the dynamic this time should prove interesting (despite the fact we've seen it before).
I don't know; I have a predilection to stand up against what I perceive as unfair. While I accept there are a lot of justifiable reasons to hate the man; I just can't reconcile that with what I perceive as a lack of objectivity by the IWC when it comes to assessing him as an in ring talent. Especially when it isn't held against other big stars.
I'm not expecting people to agree with me at all; but I thought I'd share my thoughts and see if I could prompt people to put aside their feelings when it comes to the political side of things and give some credit where it was due. He was involved in some damn fine matches, feuds and promo spots over the years; why shouldn't that receive the same consideration as the others who have played politics and been arseholes backstage but still get huge amounts of love and respect when it comes to their in ring careers?
As I've said; there are a lot of reasons to be pissed at or hate Triple H. I am not expecting that to change nor do I feel it should. But when I see some of the comments on this site slagging off his place in the history of the product I feel those things colour the view point of the commenter much more than it would with another performer; and I don't feel that's fair.
All the best
P.S: Please excuse the lateness of this reply; been having a hell of a time recently and have had very little time to do stuff like this. Due to outside things I may not always be on the ball; but I will always get to it eventually. Thanks again for taking part.
WoW u gotta 100% right you can read some more predictions for Wrestlemania XXX matches
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