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nrb6304
09-23-2011, 10:58 AM
I'm a film a major. I specialize in script writing. I want to be a screenplay writer.

With that being said let me take you back to something I posted here earlier this year regarding the 10.10.10 angle TNA pulled last year.

Last year during the hype for BFG Jeff Jarrett tried to recruit Samoa Joe to team up with him to face a "heel" Kevin Nash Sting and Pope. Nash and Sting were constantly saying that Hogan was evil, and shouldn't be trusted, and started attacking Hogan's recruits. They recruited Pope and eventually started to attack Double J. At BFG Jeff Jarrett walked out on Samoa Joe. Thus proving Sting Nash and Pope right.

So in reality Sting and Nash and Pope were NOT heels, there were faces who weren't believed. Much like Sting in 96 when he plead with the horsemen that he didn't attack them.

The IWC's reaction to this was "Well wtf?! Are they heels or faces? Stop switching them!"

Now let's fast forward a little.

Hardy has been World Champ
Anderson has been World Champ
Angle is now World Champ.

All three men have been in Immortal.
And two of them have been kicked out and turned face (Hardy and Anderson)
And the IWC says "God they're just joining and then kicking them out. WTF? What was the point?" Again missing the bigger story.

Immortal wants POWER. And if you can't hold onto the World title you lose the power. There for Immortal no longer needs/wants you. So they cast you aside and out.

A popular phrase with the IWC is "stop bitching and let's see where it goes." And I have found that in understanding TNA Wrestling you HAVE to just watch it and see where it goes. Watching TNA is NOT like watching Spongebob or something. Watching TNA wrestling is like watching Rescue Me or Law and Order. Or a Tarrentino movie. You just have to wait until the end of it all to see the bigger picture. Hell you may need to watch it twice in order to understand it fully.

Now granted some of the shit they do is ridiculous. Some of the stuff they do is gold. But that's EVERY wrestling company. Some of the stuff I've seen from ROH is complete shit. Others is complete GOLD. WWE same thing.

You just need to stop, watch, and then think. This is complex writing for a simplistic program. Just give it a chance.


Thoughts, comments, etc.

monctonvike
09-23-2011, 11:46 AM
When I first started reading your thread, I was thinking, here we go again. Finishing it was not a mistake, well written and great points made. I rarely find myself lost in a tna angle, granted some angles are s@*t and others are dumb. Some are very good like all feds. I think slowly but surely over the last year or so tna has been getting on the right track

SteveButabi
09-23-2011, 12:34 PM
I think you're giving them wayyyyyyyy too much credit. The show itself has proven over and over that they don't plan ahead on anything and use the "throw shit against the wall and see what sticks" method.

steveorton
09-23-2011, 12:43 PM
I think you're giving them wayyyyyyyy too much credit. The show itself has proven over and over that they don't plan ahead on anything and use the "throw shit against the wall and see what sticks" method.

^^^^this^^^^

Automatic
09-23-2011, 12:47 PM
I'm sorry but waiting a full year, for everything finally making sense at BFG, if that even happens, is too long for me.

FLWWEFan
09-23-2011, 12:51 PM
I think you're giving them wayyyyyyyy too much credit. The show itself has proven over and over that they don't plan ahead on anything and use the "throw shit against the wall and see what sticks" method.

Exactly my point. This goes all the way back year and years. I remember when TNA first appeared on Monday night for the 1st time, wow that show was done horribly, it's clearly that nobody knew known of them knew how to run a live TV show. And even now a lot of the stuff they throw out there looks like it's randomly thrown together at the last minute for whatever reason.

steveorton
09-23-2011, 12:54 PM
Don't get me wrong sometimes they do have a good sometimes great concept/idea but when they actually go ahead and do it it comes of just bad.

AlexWorldOrder
09-23-2011, 12:57 PM
It's funny.. People tend to complain about TNA's storylines being too confusing; little do they realize that their brains are being challanged to actually think. I could see somebody being a bit confused by missing two episodes. The THEY storyline was probably one of the best storylines in years; although it did use some 1996 factors, it had it's own twist. I was watching some of the old episodes.. And I remember my wife thinking.. "why would sting act like this?!?!" and as soon and the Sting/Hogan summit episode aired, I was like awww shit! Here we go, son!
What I didn't see coming, was Jeff Hardy being the heel. I didn't think they had the balls to turn one of their big money makers since they don't have the biggest budget to begin with, but they did!
This whole IMMORTAL storyline is even sort of being used in WWE now.. You got a new boss, old boss trying to take his company back, annonimous GM, and the possible return of porbably the worst version of the NWO(please god, don't let it happen). I'm sure that if Bischoff still owned some of WcW's rights, IMMORTAL would probably be called The New World Order.

Now that this 1 year angle is unfolding, we will be seeing the results of everything we've been wanting to see happen in TNA. Bischoff was critical of the IWC, but I'm almost positive that him and Russo sat down and based their entire take over on Internet comments. Even every lie or controversy that's said about Hogan/Bischoff was portrayed on IMPACT.

shambo2k9
09-23-2011, 01:57 PM
I'm a film a major. I specialize in script writing. I want to be a screenplay writer.

With that being said let me take you back to something I posted here earlier this year regarding the 10.10.10 angle TNA pulled last year.

Last year during the hype for BFG Jeff Jarrett tried to recruit Samoa Joe to team up with him to face a "heel" Kevin Nash Sting and Pope. Nash and Sting were constantly saying that Hogan was evil, and shouldn't be trusted, and started attacking Hogan's recruits. They recruited Pope and eventually started to attack Double J. At BFG Jeff Jarrett walked out on Samoa Joe. Thus proving Sting Nash and Pope right.

So in reality Sting and Nash and Pope were NOT heels, there were faces who weren't believed. Much like Sting in 96 when he plead with the horsemen that he didn't attack them.

The IWC's reaction to this was "Well wtf?! Are they heels or faces? Stop switching them!"

Now let's fast forward a little.

Hardy has been World Champ
Anderson has been World Champ
Angle is now World Champ.

All three men have been in Immortal.
And two of them have been kicked out and turned face (Hardy and Anderson)
And the IWC says "God they're just joining and then kicking them out. WTF? What was the point?" Again missing the bigger story.

Immortal wants POWER. And if you can't hold onto the World title you lose the power. There for Immortal no longer needs/wants you. So they cast you aside and out.

A popular phrase with the IWC is "stop bitching and let's see where it goes." And I have found that in understanding TNA Wrestling you HAVE to just watch it and see where it goes. Watching TNA is NOT like watching Spongebob or something. Watching TNA wrestling is like watching Rescue Me or Law and Order. Or a Tarrentino movie. You just have to wait until the end of it all to see the bigger picture. Hell you may need to watch it twice in order to understand it fully.

Now granted some of the shit they do is ridiculous. Some of the stuff they do is gold. But that's EVERY wrestling company. Some of the stuff I've seen from ROH is complete shit. Others is complete GOLD. WWE same thing.

You just need to stop, watch, and then think. This is complex writing for a simplistic program. Just give it a chance.


Thoughts, comments, etc.

Good luck in your future endeavors as a screenplay writer.... maybe TNA will hire you for the longest film ever.

Blinker
09-23-2011, 02:19 PM
I'm sorry but waiting a full year, for everything finally making sense at BFG, if that even happens, is too long for me.

^^ Same Here ^^

Maybe they do have that planned out well enough to last a year. Kudos to them. But I honestly don't want to give up a year trying to follow the story. That's honestly one of the pieces that drove me away from WCW. I honestly got sick of the NWO. I wash pretty much done with WCW after Goldberg won the WHC. Seeing them each week ramble on about how great they are and watching them win matchs by disqualifications was annoying. I'm not saying TNA is the same, I'm just saying I get sick of seeing the same routines done week after week. If they can devote more time to other parts and still keep the storyline going, great.

Of course this is only my opinion.

kiltbill
09-23-2011, 02:48 PM
AWO, it’s not our ability to think that’s being challenged: it’s our patience. I want to see wrestling, with some promo’s or mike work in between. I end up fat forwarding through most of the show because I don’t want to HEAR a feud being scripted, I want to SEE a feud being fought. And so I miss out on much of the storylines that they try to spell out in minute detail. If I wanted that, I could watch any TV Soap Opera.

TNA have had too many charector changes, short lived feuds and too large a roster. They need to let there face & heels settle into their own character, let the titles have legitimacy, and then the storylines will matter. TNA need to live up to there promise of making Wrestling matter.

A year long plan? Most people can’t get through the 2 hour 'plan' they have every Impact.

AlexWorldOrder
09-23-2011, 02:50 PM
^^^ I definitely agree with that. I think the main problem is trying to push an entire roster in one show. Once they add more people and more storylines, just to give others tv time, it males everything incredibly confusing, and once one of your stars catches fire with their storyline, you have to involve them in the main storyline, and it just turns into a clusterfuck at times. Anderson is a good example.

wrestlingfan66513
09-23-2011, 04:04 PM
Some stories are done well and some aren't. Nexus shouldn't have lasted as long as it did and it went out with a whimper. Immortal looks like it will end at BFG which is good. We will get some fresh feuds and get to see how Gunner and Ray do on there own.

URATOOL
09-23-2011, 06:25 PM
Version A of the IMPACT creative proccess:
We plan a year plus ahead. We have to make sure there are plenty of twists and turns. People like them. We have to over ham staged backstage segments to drive the stories along and try to explain every little thing because the fans need to be spoon fed the story in order to keep up with our mega complicated, over lapping feuds, face/heel turns and seemingly random betrayals. Trust us though. It'll all make sense in 467 days from the start of the story.

Version B of the IMPACT creative proccess:
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! We start filming in 20 minutes!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF shall we do this week??????? Fuck it lets just make another U turn in this rambling plot we've been forcing ahead with for 6 months!!!! Don't worry. Sooner or later it'll make sense a little bit. Just by pure random luck, but it will make sense some how.

You decide which is more accurate.

HCollins-TNA1
09-23-2011, 09:05 PM
First let me say very good post and some very good thoughts by all somewhat.... espically the publisher of this post...
I been saying many of the things above, writings and stories has to bloom into what it will be, be it 1 month or 1 year....
Several thing I see.....


Many of you don't watch TV, or enough TV, to know every show has long term plot....
Any kind of entertainment that is put on TV has a plot.... Long term stories comes out.... Take Soap Operas, which is the female equlivant characters come and go, characters turn and do acts that explainable. But eventually be it a month or 6 months or a year, everything gets revealed and known... Take sports, even though not scripted, some has been known for their reality shows such as Dallas Cowboys.. Following injuries and such as... Then take politics such as elections and campaigning, usually 2 or more facing off in debates talking about the issues, the people choose who and what to believe and make their choice....
Take Movie Trilogies such as Star Trek, or Star Wars, or Back to the Future or Ghostbusters or Halloween.... All is pretty much long term with reasoning behind what happens if not right off eventually... or even TV sitcoms/shows from CSI, Law and Order, Desperate Housewives, and etc... all have inside plot that goes along with the season besides one for the show....

Asherdelampyr
09-23-2011, 09:07 PM
very interesting viewpoint
I hope that this really is the case, if so it would be Awesome!

monctonvike
09-23-2011, 11:10 PM
very interesting viewpoint
I hope that this really is the case, if so it would be Awesome!

agree with you 100%

ps love the figure skating piledriver :)

Asherdelampyr
09-23-2011, 11:17 PM
agree with you 100%

ps love the figure skating piledriver :)

so far it's my favorite GIF

HCollins-TNA1
09-23-2011, 11:21 PM
Or take it to be like a book or a writer who writes many books...Be it Stephen King or Jackie Collins or Danielle Steel or Nora Roberts or James Patterson or John Grisham...... Build the characters, change of heart, deception and more let the character evolve and revolve over time....

capn-edu
09-23-2011, 11:22 PM
what is there to understand?

kiltbill
09-23-2011, 11:29 PM
Or take it to be like a book or a writer who writes many books...Be it Stephen King or Jackie Collins or Danielle Steel or Nora Roberts or James Patterson or John Grisham...... Build the characters, change of heart, deception and more let the character evolve and revolve over time....

Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahaha!
Your seriously trying to compare Russo writing to John Grisham!

Aaaaaa hahahahaha!

Ha.

Asherdelampyr
09-23-2011, 11:33 PM
Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahaha!
Your seriously trying to compare Russo writing to John Grisham!

Aaaaaa hahahahaha!

Ha.

perhaps a better comparison would be Stephanie Meyer

Yes, that's right
Russo, the Stephanie Meyer of Wrestling

Necroyeti
09-23-2011, 11:39 PM
If you feel that you have to construct a several paragraph internet post to make sense of a wrestling show, that is absolutely not "complex writing" if you ask me. That's called "writing that's been made up on the fly and half-assedly tied together", or "internet fans grasping at straws".

Besides, TNA is a wrestling show... not a Federico Fellini film. If you want a different "film school" interpretation of TNA writing: Think about schreiber theory.... now think about Vince Russo's track record for incoherency and poor writing. Is it a coincidence? You be the judge.

(Not that I think schreiber or auteur theory applies to booking a pro wrestling show. I'm mostly highlighting the absurdity of your conclusions)

HCollins-TNA1
09-23-2011, 11:46 PM
Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahaha!
Your seriously trying to compare Russo writing to John Grisham!

Aaaaaa hahahahaha!

Ha.
No just comparing wrestling to novels or books.... both have characters and settings and etc....

THEKEVINBRAND
09-23-2011, 11:56 PM
I know for a fact that I'd rather watch a year long feud than mini feuds that last a month or two...but that's my perspective

nrb6304
09-24-2011, 12:00 AM
(picking random things out of the conversation I missed while at work)

I think a lot of you are thinking that I am giving Vince Russo, and TNA too much credit. I don't give TNA or WWE or ROH any credit to THOUGHTFULLY plan out a YEAR LONG storyline (do you see this Rock/Cena "feud") None of these companies CAN or SHOULD plan out a year long storyline. They'd all fail.

If waiting for a storyline to play out for a year is too long for you let me ask you this: do you watch ANY tv? Every season orientated TV show, does this. They end the season on a cliffhanger and you wait a full year to find out what happened. Take True Blood for example: in season 3 it ended with one of the main characters getting sucked into a light and the other in the midst of a vampire battle.
Then blackness. And we waited a year to find out what happened to both.

Comparing Russo to Meyer is a decent one. The difference is that Meyer has character development.

Every wrestling company uses the "throw shit to the wall and see if it will stick." And guess what? IT WORKS! Don't believe me? Here's a list of names that prove you wrong.
THE ROCK
STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN
JOHN CENA
STING
Heel Hogan
(here's one JUST for the IWC)
Zack Ryder!

You think ANY of these guys were PLANNED to be who they are?
Hell we all know Zack Ryder wasn't. They gave him the shittest gimmick ever and he's taken it to become ONE OF the most wanted superstars in the WWE. (Disagree? Guess you watch RAW on mute and didn't hear the ENTIRE arena start chanting "RYDER" when Hugh Jackman said he was gonna find the biggest underdog in the locker room)

NOT TO MENTION the Attitude era. Yeah that's a lot of "let's see if this sticks".

I'M NOT PRAISING RUSSO'S WRITING. I'm just saying that in some of these cases you NEED to actually think. It's not that hard.

I'm pretty positive that the Sting/Hogan match has been in the works for a full year. In fact I'd bet that if Hogan hadn't had his surgery last year it WOULD'VE happened last year.

That Hardy turn was sick. A TRUE wtf moment?! I was DEAD SET that it would be Angle turning.

Am I grabbing for straws? Possibly. But hey if that's what I have to do, then that's what I have to do. The difference is that I'm not grasping for UNREASONABLE straws. I'm not saying "Well Sting could lose to Hogan at BFG and then do a retirement match with AJ Styles and then bow out and then go to WWE and wrestle Undertaker! HELL YES! IT'S GONNA HAPPEN!!" Yeah I'm not doing that. I'm piecing together things that make sense.

To the Shambo. You must not read UWA. I don't tend to "toot my horn" but I think there are QUITE A FEW people that would agree that my federation is some of the best writing on this entire thread.

kiltbill
09-24-2011, 12:07 AM
No just comparing wrestling to novels or books.... both have characters and settings and etc....

Well, that's me answered, can't argue with that.

HCollins-TNA1
09-24-2011, 12:13 AM
I know for a fact that I'd rather watch a year long feud than mini feuds that last a month or two...but that's my perspective

I don't mind a mix of feuds be it 1 or 2 months long or 1 or 2 years long myself.....

THEKEVINBRAND
09-24-2011, 12:15 AM
I don't mind a mix of feuds be it 1 or 2 months long or 1 or 2 years long myself.....

with a short feud that lacks direction is pointless

nrb6304
09-24-2011, 01:02 AM
unless the minor feud is going to build towards a BIGGER feud then to me it's pointless.

FOR EXAMPLE: John Morrison vs. Sheamus. Nice short little feud that looked like it was gonna send JoMo to the Royal Rumble to challenge for the title and onto bigger and better things. What happened? Nothing. Sheamus wasn't on WM and hasn't really done much besides turn face, and Morrison? Had a celeb match at WM and hasn't done anything. Was thrown into a match at NOC just cause.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE (on the flip side): Big Show vs. Mark Henry. Henry and Show's feud was pretty short, and they really only had what 1 or 2 matches? Pretty short feud. HOWEVER. Look what happened afterwards? Mark Henry destroys Big Show and now let me introduce you to your World Champion: Mr. Mark Henry

Asherdelampyr
09-24-2011, 01:07 AM
unless the minor feud is going to build towards a BIGGER feud then to me it's pointless.

FOR EXAMPLE: John Morrison vs. Sheamus. Nice short little feud that looked like it was gonna send JoMo to the Royal Rumble to challenge for the title and onto bigger and better things. What happened? Nothing. Sheamus wasn't on WM and hasn't really done much besides turn face, and Morrison? Had a celeb match at WM and hasn't done anything. Was thrown into a match at NOC just cause.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE (on the flip side): Big Show vs. Mark Henry. Henry and Show's feud was pretty short, and they really only had what 1 or 2 matches? Pretty short feud. HOWEVER. Look what happened afterwards? Mark Henry destroys Big Show and now let me introduce you to your World Champion: Mr. Mark Henry

you make a good point there, though it could be said that really the feud going on is Mark Henry vs everyone

nrb6304
09-24-2011, 01:15 AM
could be said you're right. But what better way to...I guess start? the feud then by having Mark Henry take out the largest athlete on the planet?? Not to mention fucking squashing Randy Orton at NOC. And just think, if Mark Henry is THIS over, and can (by the grace of God) keep the title come HIAC, think of the MASSIVE push that THE GUY to finally end Henry's reign of terror is gonna get?

OMFG IT MAKES SENSE! IF WE GET ONE GUY REALLY OVER WE CAN USE HIM TO GET ANOTHER GUY REALLY OVER! AND THEN USE THOSE TWO GUYS TO GET TWO MORE GUYS OVER!!!!! n_n I'm a booking genius lmfao

Asherdelampyr
09-24-2011, 01:18 AM
could be said you're right. But what better way to...I guess start? the feud then by having Mark Henry take out the largest athlete on the planet?? Not to mention fucking squashing Randy Orton at NOC. And just think, if Mark Henry is THIS over, and can (by the grace of God) keep the title come HIAC, think of the MASSIVE push that THE GUY to finally end Henry's reign of terror is gonna get?

OMFG IT MAKES SENSE! IF WE GET ONE GUY REALLY OVER WE CAN USE HIM TO GET ANOTHER GUY REALLY OVER! AND THEN USE THOSE TWO GUYS TO GET TWO MORE GUYS OVER!!!!! n_n I'm a booking genius lmfao

I am really hoping that guy is Sheamus
but yes, I love the way that they have booked Mark Henry to once again look like a credible threat, and not just the amazing blob in spandex
Also, looks like he has been working out

eboy
09-24-2011, 07:42 AM
I'm a film a major. I specialize in script writing. I want to be a screenplay writer.

With that being said let me take you back to something I posted here earlier this year regarding the 10.10.10 angle TNA pulled last year.

Last year during the hype for BFG Jeff Jarrett tried to recruit Samoa Joe to team up with him to face a "heel" Kevin Nash Sting and Pope. Nash and Sting were constantly saying that Hogan was evil, and shouldn't be trusted, and started attacking Hogan's recruits. They recruited Pope and eventually started to attack Double J. At BFG Jeff Jarrett walked out on Samoa Joe. Thus proving Sting Nash and Pope right.

So in reality Sting and Nash and Pope were NOT heels, there were faces who weren't believed. Much like Sting in 96 when he plead with the horsemen that he didn't attack them.

The IWC's reaction to this was "Well wtf?! Are they heels or faces? Stop switching them!"

Now let's fast forward a little.

Hardy has been World Champ
Anderson has been World Champ
Angle is now World Champ.

All three men have been in Immortal.
And two of them have been kicked out and turned face (Hardy and Anderson)
And the IWC says "God they're just joining and then kicking them out. WTF? What was the point?" Again missing the bigger story.

Immortal wants POWER. And if you can't hold onto the World title you lose the power. There for Immortal no longer needs/wants you. So they cast you aside and out.

A popular phrase with the IWC is "stop bitching and let's see where it goes." And I have found that in understanding TNA Wrestling you HAVE to just watch it and see where it goes. Watching TNA is NOT like watching Spongebob or something. Watching TNA wrestling is like watching Rescue Me or Law and Order. Or a Tarrentino movie. You just have to wait until the end of it all to see the bigger picture. Hell you may need to watch it twice in order to understand it fully.

Now granted some of the shit they do is ridiculous. Some of the stuff they do is gold. But that's EVERY wrestling company. Some of the stuff I've seen from ROH is complete shit. Others is complete GOLD. WWE same thing.

You just need to stop, watch, and then think. This is complex writing for a simplistic program. Just give it a chance.


Thoughts, comments, etc.

I Agree with every word

I Love Impact Wrestling because its different from WWE they dont patronise there audience recently i was watching back a few impacts befor BFG 2010 and then u see things and you think having watched Bound for Glory "Oh thats clever" and "why didn't i see that first time" Ect it was an extremly clever angle start to finish!

HCollins-TNA1
09-24-2011, 11:14 AM
unless the minor feud is going to build towards a BIGGER feud then to me it's pointless.

FOR EXAMPLE: John Morrison vs. Sheamus. Nice short little feud that looked like it was gonna send JoMo to the Royal Rumble to challenge for the title and onto bigger and better things. What happened? Nothing. Sheamus wasn't on WM and hasn't really done much besides turn face, and Morrison? Had a celeb match at WM and hasn't done anything. Was thrown into a match at NOC just cause.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE (on the flip side): Big Show vs. Mark Henry. Henry and Show's feud was pretty short, and they really only had what 1 or 2 matches? Pretty short feud. HOWEVER. Look what happened afterwards? Mark Henry destroys Big Show and now let me introduce you to your World Champion: Mr. Mark Henry

I would expect the Big Show v Mark Henry feud to make a comeback at HitC???? maybe 2 or 3 more months..... worth of matches..

Undertaker Mark
09-25-2011, 02:42 PM
I enjoy TNA mostly because of velvet sky's ass and the X division

pauadrian
09-25-2011, 02:56 PM
tna bores me
trustme i give it a chance but it dosnt work
roh dosnt bore nither does wwe

SilverGhost
09-25-2011, 03:03 PM
I don't know.....to say that the whole thing(since the start of BFG '10) till now was some complex storyline is pretty much giving Russo and his yesman too much credit. That would mean they have planned this way ahead since Hogan came to TNA in order for this to work. In my mind....they are just going along with the flow and just throwing in an idea to the storyline.

Though the constant turnings does make people confused and probably lose people's attention.

Rassling_Fan
09-26-2011, 01:20 PM
So you think they're planning ahead and we simply have to wait and see?

Look at the "They" Storyline, the last one I saw before my stoppage of TNA watching (at least until I read at least one article saying they are paying for someone's injury). You said it build up to the They reveal showing they were faces who were viewed wrong. But multiple situations call for this to be illogical.

Hogan was pulling for Angle in the Triple Threat Match. Bishoff was pulling for Anderson. No one was even paying attention to Hardy. And then sudden heel turn. Wouldn't it have been more satisfying, and better written, that the heel turn was due because he was jealous of the attention those two got and decided to make them see he was champion worthy. That way, they won't have the plot hole of having the match between Angle and Hardy end in a no contest instead of a win for Hardy because of Angle's bleeding. (If Hardy was with They all along, why not use that to get rid of Angle and make it easier on Hardy?) We get Heel Hardy, no turns for Hogan, Bishoff or Jarrett, and They being something else.

Abyss shoved Hogan's ring down his throat. Jarrett and Bishoff were feuding with each other with Jeff being forced to sell hotdogs and clean toilets. And while we add it, Angle and Jeff fighting because Jeff married Angle's ex wife. You're telling me because they're all heels they can forget the past and buddy up? Just doesn't make sense to work with people who pretty much hurt you to the extreme.

You know a good example of a long storyline? Hogan/Sting 1. Sting is accused of being in the nWo but denies it. "Sting" shows up and attacks friends. Sting shows that he was telling the truth and leaves. He suddenly returns darker and looking over the ring. He attacks the nWo showing he's after them. He gets a match against Hogan and wins one for WCW. Simple, easy to follow and no real twists. Just good storytelling (the match that all this leads to is another story). We see Sting betrayed, we wonder who's side he's on, we see he is still loyal to WCW. From point A to B.

Peter Kaymakcian
09-27-2011, 12:08 AM
@OP
Like the post, but I think you used the wrong storyline because there is no way the "They" storyline was planned out well for a lot of major reasons.

1.) At first Samoa Joe was the the guy spouting "They" and then all of sudden they switched to Abyss for no reason what so ever.

2.) If Jeff Hardy was apart of "They" from the beginning and Bischoff and Hogan where in charge of the TNA Rankings System why wouldn't they just put Jeff Hardy as number 1? He had the resume for them to do so to explain in kayfabe as to not reveal the big mystery until time.

3.) When RVD wrestled AJ for the title he beat Jeff Hardy earlier in the night to earn the number one contender's spot, but if Bischoff, Hogan, and Jeff where in cohoots they could've easily just said Jeff is number one contender due to his history in TNA as he was in TNA way longer then RVD was which would make sense kayfabe wise and still keep the secret until the big reveal.

4.) Since Flair was in cohoots with Hogan and Bischoff the entire time why would they put AJ in a position to lose the championship at all?

5.) Why would they make Jeff Hardy face Angle when the Pope/Anderson would be easier in kayfabe?

6.) RVD gets attacked by Abyss and Jeff goes after him immediately. Now before all of you jump on the whole well Jeff and RVD are friends. Well plenty of other guys are friends in the locker room yet they don't get in each other's business. Like for instance when Henry was attacking the Big Show Kane did not attempt to save Show. Then on the next Smackdown! he made no attempt to attack Henry at all because in wrestling friends rarely attack another friends opponent for them. No matter what the situation.

7.) If Immortal wanted to guarantee the title would be with them at BFG why didn't they just pit Abyss vs Jeff Hardy for the title? Would make sense storyline wise as Abyss was #1 in the TNA Power Rankings and Jeff sat at #2. Immortal gets the title no matter what until BFG.

There are a lot of other holes, but its 1 AM here and I have class at 11:30 AM.

SilverGhost
09-27-2011, 01:45 PM
Rasslin_Fan and Peter pretty much have it down.

I still don't believe that this was some year-long story line made by Russo.

HCollins-TNA1
09-27-2011, 02:17 PM
Rasslin_Fan and Peter pretty much have it down.

I still don't believe that this was some year-long story line made by Russo.

But it was a year or so long story line..... with Russo, Hogan and Bischoff you have to give credit to.... although it wasn't the best planned one...

HCollins-TNA1
09-27-2011, 02:30 PM
@OP
Like the post, but I think you used the wrong storyline because there is no way the "They" storyline was planned out well for a lot of major reasons.

1.) At first Samoa Joe was the the guy spouting "They" and then all of sudden they switched to Abyss for no reason what so ever.

2.) If Jeff Hardy was apart of "They" from the beginning and Bischoff and Hogan where in charge of the TNA Rankings System why wouldn't they just put Jeff Hardy as number 1? He had the resume for them to do so to explain in kayfabe as to not reveal the big mystery until time.

3.) When RVD wrestled AJ for the title he beat Jeff Hardy earlier in the night to earn the number one contender's spot, but if Bischoff, Hogan, and Jeff where in cohoots they could've easily just said Jeff is number one contender due to his history in TNA as he was in TNA way longer then RVD was which would make sense kayfabe wise and still keep the secret until the big reveal.

4.) Since Flair was in cohoots with Hogan and Bischoff the entire time why would they put AJ in a position to lose the championship at all?

5.) Why would they make Jeff Hardy face Angle when the Pope/Anderson would be easier in kayfabe?

6.) RVD gets attacked by Abyss and Jeff goes after him immediately. Now before all of you jump on the whole well Jeff and RVD are friends. Well plenty of other guys are friends in the locker room yet they don't get in each other's business. Like for instance when Henry was attacking the Big Show Kane did not attempt to save Show. Then on the next Smackdown! he made no attempt to attack Henry at all because in wrestling friends rarely attack another friends opponent for them. No matter what the situation.

7.) If Immortal wanted to guarantee the title would be with them at BFG why didn't they just pit Abyss vs Jeff Hardy for the title? Would make sense storyline wise as Abyss was #1 in the TNA Power Rankings and Jeff sat at #2. Immortal gets the title no matter what until BFG.

There are a lot of other holes, but its 1 AM here and I have class at 11:30 AM.

First of all Joe was pushed in another direction he was never part of the They story line....
Abyss was always part of it, he was involve with Hogan from day 1 in TNA...
Why give it it to Hardy so easily????
Why not screw the TNA originals and AJ Styles...
Why not have 2 of the biggest egos in wrestling come together in Flair and Hogan..
Why did have Hardy face Angle for the matches of course....
Remember after RVD got attack, Hardy did go after Abyss, and few weeks later they had Hardy fake being attacked by Abyss...
Why make it so easy... when you had 2 or 3 other feuds going on..... RVD was promised Abyss, Kurt Angle was fighting for his career as he said he would "retire", then Hardy and Angle feud, then Mr anderson also came into the equation...

Peter Kaymakcian
09-27-2011, 02:51 PM
@HCollins

1.) Samoa Joe was spouting "They" since he came back from being attacked by ninjas. So when Abyss randomly started spewing out about "They" fans should have questions about what happened to Samoa Joe to make him forget about "They" and for Abyss to just start talking about "They".

2.) I don't know maybe because he is apart of Immortal or "They" as they were referred to.

3.) Well lets see "They" shouldn't screw AJ Styles since he was apart of "They"! Flair came out with Fortune and talked about how he was with Hogan and Bischoff all along.

4.) That made no sense.

5.) Okay if you are going kayfabe wise then the heel boss is going to give his heel favorite an easier path to the title. Kayfabe wise Angle was on an unheard of streak within TNA so why would Bischoff and Hogan risk Hardy not making it to BFG by having him face Angle.

6.) Yes Hardy didn't have to go after Abyss because like I said before wrestlers don't care if another wrestler gets injured. I've given you an example of that.

7.) There heels they are supposed to take the easy way out. Heels take the easy way out all the time. So why wouldn't they want to make it easy on themselves.

Kashdinero
09-27-2011, 03:45 PM
Let's give them the benefit of the doubt.... With heavy emphasis on doubt... Like, a ton of it.

OK, if I ran a wrestling company that was STRUGGLING to gain new viewers and awareness, the absolutely last thing I would do is concoct a convoluted, confusing, contrived, conspiracy type storyline that would take over a year to reach it's conclusion. Its ridiculous to think that people tune into wrestling with the same type of mindset that they would were they watching an episode of a "soap opera" or an episode of a TV series. As much as they are similar to wrestling, they are completely different types of entertainment, and, as such, shouldn't be portrayed that way. Wrestling is supposed to be something that people can just sit down and watch without the hassle of having to wade through mountains of half truths and misleading angles, only to have to then sit down and wade through said mountains of half truths and misleading angles again when the "full truth" is revealed.

Keep things simple, and see how many new viewers latch on to the product before you "wow" them with your "fantastic" storytelling.

The Vanity project that is TNA will never produce anything of value as long as these people are at the helm...

Terry Bollea
Eric Bischoff
Vince Russo
Dixie Carter

Remove at least three of those four, and I MIGHT start watching the show again with intent, rather than having it on in the background while I do something waaaay more interesting.... Like picking my nose and flicking the bogeys at my cat. :)

Fuck TNA... Fuck them in their incredibly clueless arseholes and faces.

As long as they continue the way they are, they are destined -or doomed, depending on your perspective- to remain in the one point twos.


-----

For the record: JBW is where the best show writing is to be found on this website.

HCollins-TNA1
09-27-2011, 05:56 PM
I never remember Joe being part of this other then the feud him and Double J had with Sting and Nash, other then that they kept him on the outside looking in...
The Heel of the storyline did win the cheap way, if you remember Bischoff coming out and then Hogan and taking out Angle and Anderson with the crutches...

Wrestling is like a soap oprea or multi mini series or a book all to many times..... Sometimes it don't always work, fans get bored easily these days with long storylines... Which maybe is some problem with the WWE build characters....

SilverGhost
09-27-2011, 06:23 PM
I never remember Joe being part of this other then the feud him and Double J had with Sting and Nash, other then that they kept him on the outside looking in...
The Heel of the storyline did win the cheap way, if you remember Bischoff coming out and then Hogan and taking out Angle and Anderson with the crutches...

Wrestling is like a soap oprea or multi mini series or a book all to many times..... Sometimes it don't always work, fans get bored easily these days with long storylines... Which maybe is some problem with the WWE build characters....

Correction: Sports Entertainment.

WWE can build characters, its just it takes a right storyline and a few talents to put the character over. It takes careful planning, not "throwing in ideas as I go and see if it makes sense."



OK, if I ran a wrestling company that was STRUGGLING to gain new viewers and awareness, the absolutely last thing I would do is concoct a convoluted, confusing, contrived, conspiracy type storyline that would take over a year to reach it's conclusion. Its ridiculous to think that people tune into wrestling with the same type of mindset that they would were they watching an episode of a "soap opera" or an episode of a TV series. As much as they are similar to wrestling, they are completely different types of entertainment, and, as such, shouldn't be portrayed that way. Wrestling is supposed to be something that people can just sit down and watch without the hassle of having to wade through mountains of half truths and misleading angles, only to have to then sit down and wade through said mountains of half truths and misleading angles again when the "full truth" is revealed.

Keep things simple, and see how many new viewers latch on to the product before you "wow" them with your "fantastic" storytelling.

Pretty much this.

Knowing how Russo is with his magic of suddenly turning people just to make some sort of sense of it.....the "year-long" storyline would have so many holes.

Like Angle and Jarrett feuding then SUDDENLY they are "on the same page"? No shred of logic there. Even if they have patched it up in real life, the storyline presented was rather a middle finger to the people who use logic while watching the show.

SilverGhost
09-27-2011, 06:23 PM
I never remember Joe being part of this other then the feud him and Double J had with Sting and Nash, other then that they kept him on the outside looking in...
The Heel of the storyline did win the cheap way, if you remember Bischoff coming out and then Hogan and taking out Angle and Anderson with the crutches...

Wrestling is like a soap oprea or multi mini series or a book all to many times..... Sometimes it don't always work, fans get bored easily these days with long storylines... Which maybe is some problem with the WWE build characters....

Correction: Sports Entertainment.

WWE can build characters, its just it takes a right storyline and a few talents to put the character over. It takes careful planning, not "throwing in ideas as I go and see if it makes sense."



OK, if I ran a wrestling company that was STRUGGLING to gain new viewers and awareness, the absolutely last thing I would do is concoct a convoluted, confusing, contrived, conspiracy type storyline that would take over a year to reach it's conclusion. Its ridiculous to think that people tune into wrestling with the same type of mindset that they would were they watching an episode of a "soap opera" or an episode of a TV series. As much as they are similar to wrestling, they are completely different types of entertainment, and, as such, shouldn't be portrayed that way. Wrestling is supposed to be something that people can just sit down and watch without the hassle of having to wade through mountains of half truths and misleading angles, only to have to then sit down and wade through said mountains of half truths and misleading angles again when the "full truth" is revealed.

Keep things simple, and see how many new viewers latch on to the product before you "wow" them with your "fantastic" storytelling.

Pretty much this.

Knowing how Russo is with his magic of suddenly turning people just to make some sort of sense of it.....the "year-long" storyline would have so many holes.

Like Angle and Jarrett feuding then SUDDENLY they are "on the same page"? No shred of logic there. Even if they have patched it up in real life, the storyline presented was rather a middle finger to the people who use logic while watching the show.

HCollins-TNA1
09-27-2011, 07:51 PM
Correction: Sports Entertainment.

WWE can build characters, its just it takes a right storyline and a few talents to put the character over. It takes careful planning, not "throwing in ideas as I go and see if it makes sense."



Pretty much this.

Knowing how Russo is with his magic of suddenly turning people just to make some sort of sense of it.....the "year-long" storyline would have so many holes.

Like Angle and Jarrett feuding then SUDDENLY they are "on the same page"? No shred of logic there. Even if they have patched it up in real life, the storyline presented was rather a middle finger to the people who use logic while watching the show.
Although the WWE does a crappy job at time building the stars..... as both companies has...

SilverGhost
09-27-2011, 09:19 PM
Although the WWE does a crappy job at time building the stars..... as both companies has...

Aside from that......TNA needs to do proper planning, even if they wanna do a year-long storyline. Things has to make sense.


The "throw shit on the wall and see if it sticks" method isn't a bad thing. Its not a bad thing to take a gamble with storylines because you never know if its going to turn out great or not. Obviously every company has used this method sometime before. TNA storylines do need to be more planned out more though, definitely.

It isn't a good thing either. A calculated risk or gamble is much more safer than uncalculated stupidity.

SilverGhost
09-27-2011, 09:46 PM
Though....some shit does stick but it still stinks with Russo. So....even if it does stick....it would head south real fast and it wouldn't make sense anyways.

monctonvike
09-28-2011, 06:52 AM
http://http://twitter.com/#!/_Snape_/media/slideshow?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitpic.com%2F5w7tff
I don't know.....to say that the whole thing(since the start of BFG '10) till now was some complex storyline is pretty much giving Russo and his yesman too much credit. That would mean they have planned this way ahead since Hogan came to TNA in order for this to work. In my mind....they are just going along with the flow and just throwing in an idea to the storyline.

Though the constant turnings does make people confused and probably lose people's attention.


I think ken anderson added some perspective on this'

On the frequency of heel and babyface turns in TNA: "Here's where sometimes people don't understand the full story. There are reasons why somebody will suddenly change from heel to babyface, from a logistics concern. Maybe somebody is hurt and maybe somebody needs to fill a spot that was originally intended for somebody else. And we can't think of somebody else to fill that role, so we need you to fill that role. Part of me thinks that wrestling needs to evolve again. There's this thought that, in wrestling, it needs to be black or white. You're either a good guy or a bad guy. I don't know anybody in my life that is wholly evil or wholly good. With Breaking Bad​, or Sons Of Anarchy, or Weeds—you look at these shows and there's a guy who is a chemistry teacher who sells meth. Is this a good guy? By society's standards, no. But we look at the TV show and we can sympathize with him. So I don't know what the answer is. But I do believe that sometimes in the wrestling business, it's almost forced. And it can be insulting to the wrestling audience, whereas on a TV show like Sons Of Anarchy, you decide. But in wrestling, it's ‘Hey, I'm the bad guy. Boo me,' or ‘I'm the good guy. Cheer for me.'"

HCollins-TNA1
09-28-2011, 08:53 AM
If some can remember the WWE has been famous with heel/ face turns out of no where.... take Chavo for example after Eddie's death... Take Christian since the Orton/Christian feud....

IrkenInvader
09-28-2011, 09:04 AM
I think you're giving them wayyyyyyyy too much credit. The show itself has proven over and over that they don't plan ahead on anything and use the "throw shit against the wall and see what sticks" method.

This guy gets it.

Don't over think TNA. Your head will explode if you try to rationalize this bullshit.

IrkenInvader
09-28-2011, 09:05 AM
If some can remember the WWE has been famous with heel/ face turns out of no where.... take Chavo for example after Eddie's death... Take Christian since the Orton/Christian feud....

You mean Christian has been acting like a smartass face but gets booed just because he was going against Orton.

HCollins-TNA1
09-28-2011, 09:14 AM
You mean Christian has been acting like a smartass face but gets booed just because he was going against Orton.

You got to remember before the feud started he was cheered and when the feud started with Orton, he started the turn....

HCollins-TNA1
09-28-2011, 09:18 AM
This guy gets it.

Don't over think TNA. Your head will explode if you try to rationalize this bullshit.

Thew thing is I think they plan ahead.... But they over plan ahead....
Someone gets injured the storyline gets thrown off...
It like the WWE not even planning ahead till the last minute esp with PPVs only advertising 4 or 5 matches then adding 3 or 4 the weekend of the card....

Peter Kaymakcian
09-28-2011, 10:06 AM
If some can remember the WWE has been famous with heel/ face turns out of no where.... take Chavo for example after Eddie's death... Take Christian since the Orton/Christian feud....

Chavo was turned face because his family member just died and Christian the build up was there for him to become a heel. He lost his world title in five days and then every opportunity he had to try and get it back he either failed at it or there was a bad call by the official. So eventually his frustration built up to the point where he had to turn. Also the face/heel turn out of no where is only annoying when it is constant like Mr. Anderson going from face to heel to face again in less then two months. Or if it goes unexplained.

HCollins-TNA1
09-28-2011, 10:11 AM
Chavo was turned face because his family member just died and Christian the build up was there for him to become a heel. He lost his world title in five days and then every opportunity he had to try and get it back he either failed at it or there was a bad call by the official. So eventually his frustration built up to the point where he had to turn. Also the face/heel turn out of no where is only annoying when it is constant like Mr. Anderson going from face to heel to face again in less then two months. Or if it goes unexplained.

They could had easily turned Orton heel.....

SESAfro
09-28-2011, 10:27 AM
They could had easily turned Orton heel.....
They could have, but it wouldn't have made as much sense.

HCollins-TNA1
09-28-2011, 10:34 PM
They could have, but it wouldn't have made as much sense.

True, easier to go in the Super Cena direction with Orton as well....

Peter Kaymakcian
09-29-2011, 12:04 PM
True, easier to go in the Super Cena direction with Orton as well....

Well maybe its easier, it certainly is more logical, to turn the guy who is losing getting bad calls a heel than the guy getting all the calls and just won the world title heel.

Rich Cranium
09-29-2011, 11:32 PM
So is Traci Brooks and Kazarian married in real life?

HCollins-TNA1
09-30-2011, 12:30 AM
So is Traci Brooks and Kazarian married in real life?

Yeap for 2 or 3 years maybe longer......

THEKEVINBRAND
09-30-2011, 12:44 AM
So is Traci Brooks and Kazarian married in real life?

They got married on January 7, 2010, and Christopher Daniels was the best man and Gail Kim, SoCal Val and Christy Hemme were Traci's bridesmaids.

But one month after the wedding, some controversy arose between the two. I will quote the article and mind you this is almost two years old and the context is used in the present tense:

There's a wild story making the rounds about TNA star Frankie Kazarian, who wrestles as the masked Suicide character. Just weeks after Frankie Kazarian got married to TNA Knockout Traci Brooks, it has come out that Kazarian has been having an affair.

Earlier in the week, a person close to Kazarian and Brooks sent in nude photographs of Kazarian. The photos were taken by him, as he's shown holding a camera in the pictures. We have also received a voicemail message Traci Brooks left on the voicemail of the mistress.

The person who sent in the pictures and voicemails claims that Kazarian has been having an ongoing affair with a California-based porn star for the past 3 years and Traci Brooks became aware of it very recently. A sex tape of Kazarian and his mistress is rumored to exist.

It's interesting to note that last week, Brooks posted a bunch photos from her and Kazarian's wedding on her Facebook page and made her profile picture a wedding shot of the two. She has since removed all pictures from the wedding and has made her Facebook page private.

Furthermore, Kazarian deleted his MySpace and Facebook pages earlier this week, though the Facebook account has since been reactivated. He wrote on Tuesday, Tired, pretty banged up, but had a great tour. Most importantly home with my beautiful wife.