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Peter Kaymakcian
09-19-2011, 12:58 AM
Mark "Can't Cut a Promo" Henry beats Orton for the World Title

John "Bout to Break Flair's Record" Cena beats the up and coming Del Rio for the WWE Title

But Kelly "I Can Not Wrestle" Kelly beats Phoenix for the Divas Title

Seriously what kind of bull sh!t is this WWE? Del Rio should of had a nice four month plus run with the title to give him some credibility as a champion because this now puts his championship match record to a 2-5 I believe. With one of those championship wins coming on an already beaten CM Punk. Then you give Mark Henry the title? Seriously the guy who has only two promos. Heel I'm the World's Strongest Man so I'll hurt you and the face well now I'm nice, but I can hurt heels. Henry has a severely limited move set inside the ring and has never given me that I am now incredibly over promo or that promo that just made me say wow. If Henry holds the title longer then Christian, I would bank on it that this is a charity run with the title for all he has done for the WWE, then it is an insult to Christian who is not only far superior to Henry in the ring, but could run circles around Henry with a microphone. Kelly Kelly speaks for herself.

What do you guys think? Do you think I'm wrong? Do you think I'm right? Please let me know your opinions as long as they are intelligent.

nrb6304
09-19-2011, 01:08 AM
I think you're a little harsh on Mark Henry. For one of the biggest (physically) men in the company he's probably one of the best in the ring second to UT. I mean look at the big guys on the roster:
Undertaker
Kane
Big Show
Henry
Mason Ryan
The Great Kahli

Henry is actually the smallest out of them all, BUT he is probably the best in the ring,
Let me put it like this.
It's an old school spot that Orton and Henry did tonight.
Orton hits one clothesline. Henry doesn't go down. Orton hits a second clothesline, Henry doesn't go down. Orton hits a sexy standing dropkick, and Henry finally goes down.
Out of ALL OF THOSE MEN on that list of big men, the only one that would be able to pull it off without looking idiotic? Yup Mark Henry and UT.
Henry is probably one of the best BIG MEN in the industry today. From what he can do in the ring, to his match physcology, to his all around loyalty. Henry deserves to be WHC at least for two weeks.

Kelly Kelly has been CONSTANTLY working at getting better in the ring. And if you youtube some of her early matches from 06-07 on ECW you would see that. Not to mention she's probably one of the most over Divas in the entire company. PROMISE. Had the Pheniox/Kelly match happened ANYWHERE besides Buffalo, NY (Beth's hometown) she wouldn't have gotten that reaction. PROMISE.

Cena? Well I was never really behind Del Rio to begin with. I have yet to see anything "special" from him. I don't see "IT". The only "great" matches he's ever had were with Rey Mysterio, and that's probably because of Mysterio. So as much as I can't stand Cena with the strap...I'm okay with Del Rio losing it.

AND TO END WITH A CLICHE
Why don't you at least wait until RAW and SD this week before you start going off??

IrkenInvader
09-19-2011, 01:13 AM
Sounds like you have finally gotten around to understanding WWE creative's way of thinking.

Peter Kaymakcian
09-19-2011, 01:23 AM
I think you're a little harsh on Mark Henry. For one of the biggest (physically) men in the company he's probably one of the best in the ring second to UT. I mean look at the big guys on the roster:
Undertaker
Kane
Big Show
Henry
Mason Ryan
The Great Kahli

Henry is actually the smallest out of them all, BUT he is probably the best in the ring,
Let me put it like this.
It's an old school spot that Orton and Henry did tonight.
Orton hits one clothesline. Henry doesn't go down. Orton hits a second clothesline, Henry doesn't go down. Orton hits a sexy standing dropkick, and Henry finally goes down.
Out of ALL OF THOSE MEN on that list of big men, the only one that would be able to pull it off without looking idiotic? Yup Mark Henry and UT.
Henry is probably one of the best BIG MEN in the industry today. From what he can do in the ring, to his match physcology, to his all around loyalty. Henry deserves to be WHC at least for two weeks.

Kelly Kelly has been CONSTANTLY working at getting better in the ring. And if you youtube some of her early matches from 06-07 on ECW you would see that. Not to mention she's probably one of the most over Divas in the entire company. PROMISE. Had the Pheniox/Kelly match happened ANYWHERE besides Buffalo, NY (Beth's hometown) she wouldn't have gotten that reaction. PROMISE.

Cena? Well I was never really behind Del Rio to begin with. I have yet to see anything "special" from him. I don't see "IT". The only "great" matches he's ever had were with Rey Mysterio, and that's probably because of Mysterio. So as much as I can't stand Cena with the strap...I'm okay with Del Rio losing it.

AND TO END WITH A CLICHE
Why don't you at least wait until RAW and SD this week before you start going off??
@Henry:
I wouldn't put Henry at the number two spot. My list would go Kane, Show, UT, and then Henry as far as in ring ability goes. Kane is a far more athletic big man in the ring and has hit spots that Henry could only dream of. Since Henry had redebuted on Smackdown! in 2006 in attacking Batista he has only added one more move to his repitoir in a bear hug. Show had added at least three and Kane at least two.

@Kelly Kelly
Yeah she has improved, but her in ring work is still extremely subpar. Phoenix is over as a heel and should be Divas Champion.

@Del Rio
I have seen the "IT" factor with him and I enjoy both his matches and his promos. But I get that some people don't like him.

@Waiting for Smackdown! and Raw
Why should I wait when its the PPV matches that set me off. Unless they open up the shows with a time machine to go back in time waiting for the shows does nothing for me.

Poot-Hair
09-19-2011, 01:27 AM
Mark "Can't Cut a Promo" Henry beats Orton for the World Title

John "Bout to Break Flair's Record" Cena beats the up and coming Del Rio for the WWE Title

But Kelly "I Can Not Wrestle" Kelly beats Phoenix for the Divas Title

Seriously what kind of bull sh!t is this WWE? Del Rio should of had a nice four month plus run with the title to give him some credibility as a champion because this now puts his championship match record to a 2-5 I believe. With one of those championship wins coming on an already beaten CM Punk. Then you give Mark Henry the title? Seriously the guy who has only two promos. Heel I'm the World's Strongest Man so I'll hurt you and the face well now I'm nice, but I can hurt heels. Henry has a severely limited move set inside the ring and has never given me that I am now incredibly over promo or that promo that just made me say wow. If Henry holds the title longer then Christian, I would bank on it that this is a charity run with the title for all he has done for the WWE, then it is an insult to Christian who is not only far superior to Henry in the ring, but could run circles around Henry with a microphone. Kelly Kelly speaks for herself.

What do you guys think? Do you think I'm wrong? Do you think I'm right? Please let me know your opinions as long as they are intelligent.

And Poot "The Slighty Drippy" Hair says just give it a week or so to see how it pans out. And was there any doubt that Cena was going to win? There wasn't in my head anyways

wwe=awesome
09-19-2011, 01:34 AM
i liked the ppv besides cena winning and all but you know kelly isn't holding on to that title much longer but overall it was a pretty good show so stop complaining man

WPack911
09-19-2011, 01:54 AM
I thought the PPV was pretty good, not everybody I wanted to win won and stupid Cena won the title for the thousandth time, but I liked it over all as it was completely unpredictable. I mean who would have thought Beth would lose in her hometown, or that Mark Henry would win the WHC, or that a pissed off Awesome Truth would do a run down in the CM Punk/HHH match!?

The unpredictability of the WWE as of late is what has made it great again and this PPV was loaded with it so I thought it was pretty good and left big feuds and questions to move forward with from here, I look forward to seeing what happens next.

The Expendable
09-19-2011, 02:04 AM
Cena winning the title was coming but to be honest I don't know what is worst having cena as WWE champion? or WWE thinking that Cena needs the title more than the young talents?

TheRockerGother
09-19-2011, 02:18 AM
Are you really mad Cena won???Come on as soon as Cena was announced to face Del Rio I knew Cena was gonna win.Did you think Del Rio would make Cena tap???And to the I can't not wrestle (kelly kelly) give her a break at least she's trying.
Mark Henry winning the title is great he's earned it after all his years in the WWE and being loyal to the WWE.It also changed this ups a bit I'm tired of Orton and Cena being the ones who mostly hold the title I'd rather have the title on Henry then on Orton.
Give these people a break.

TCM442
09-19-2011, 02:20 AM
It is quite clear that you have no idea how to make money or how to book an entertaining show.

As much as I hate John Cena as Champion, it was definitely the wisest move at the moment. They have done absolutely nothing with Del Rio since winning the championship, and I really don't see anything special with him. He's mediocre on the microphone and his ring work is good. Cena is the definite bigger draw and will bring in the bigger ratings. Even though I was definitely on Del Rio's side all match.

Mark Henry's promo skills may not be the best, but nor are Orton's. And who cares about Christian? You drone on and on about Christian being embarrassed as champion. Christian COULD NOT DRAW, Henry CAN DRAW that is why Henry is champion and and Christian is not. It's that simple. I don't understand how it's difficult to understand. I think Henry will have a pretty lengthy reign... maybe until the end of the year like Kane did last Fall.

I will agree with you on Kelly Kelly. I thought for a fact that Beth was taking her out! I don't like Kelly as much as the next person but she is a draw and people, for whatever reasons, actually want to watch her as Champion. Beth isn't completely over I would say as far as being a heel. But I'm still shocked by Beth's loss.

I would suggest thinking about it from a booking and business stand point. All of the outcomes tonight were in the best interest for booking and continuing storylines and the for, the all important, business.

BIGZrudypoo812
09-19-2011, 03:00 AM
Mark Henry winning was great (stop bitching), the man plays his part great and dont give me "cant cut a promo" LMAO when was the last time Randy Orton has cut a good promo??? Mark Deserved it

Now Cena Winning just Sets up Punk vs Cena III or we could see another Del Rio vs Cena idk. Triple Threat maybe.

Kelly Kelly I 100% agree she is just flat out horrible

PureMetalftw!
09-19-2011, 03:02 AM
Mark Henry: I am a huge Orton fan, he is my number 2 behind punk. but i was going for henry in that match cause i thought he really deserved it. i was suprised when he beat orton cleanly even though i said he would in the prediction contest ^.^ hahaha

John cena: after he won i just lost all the excitement i had for the next match, thank god HHH and punk put on a great match and everything that happened towards the end had me on the edge of my seat

K2: horrible, everybody says that she in improving and i will agree but come on, she has been in the wwe since 2006 or something, she has had enough time to improve

The Brown One
09-19-2011, 03:05 AM
They have to come up with new ways of Kelly beating Beth besides roll-ups. Shes done it the past two PPVs and its just a cheap way to win for a face. Maybe have Beth/Natayla double team on Kelly or something.
The thing that really got to me in the PPV however, was that Cena won the WWE championship AGAIN. ADR wasn't really doing much with it, and wasn't even being advertised as much as the Triple H-Punk and Henry-Orton feud, so he couldn't be taken seriously as WWE champion. Plus he looked like a pussy, trying to get out of all of his matches. Hes a great wrestler, but they just didn't book him well. But what can Cena possibly do as a champion this time? He could have gone 3, maybe 4 more months without the championship, and then won it when nearing his Wrestlemania match with The Rock. But no, they always have to put him in the fucking main event. Hes not even the company's most popular wrestler anymore. I'm sure Sin Cara and Orton merch sell more than Cenas at this point. They should seriously rethink this.

Tribe
09-19-2011, 04:09 AM
I liked the PPV my only thing I wanted Beth Phoenix to win. I am disappointed Kelly Kelly still has the title.

Cena winning not happy but no surprised.

CrowOfMurders
09-19-2011, 05:09 AM
I'm happy with Henry winning,however he is NOT the top big man in the WWE, and who the hell knows if he draws? I haven't seen Smackdown's ratings jump during Henry segments. Smackdown DOES need a credible,powerful heel,the sneaky,cheating heel was a good fit for christian,but it's only exciting when the heel holds the title,and the face(Orton) chases him. When the good guy keeps getting cheated out of the title by the cheater every time,you really do enjoy it when the face finally wins. They did the reverse,by putting the title on Orton and having Christian chase and it didn't work out. TBH,Smackdown needed a change,and Henry as the badass dominant heel is a great breath of fresh air and its something they havent had in a while. Although he's had a pretty limited moveset for a while, I like the Vaderbomb on the chair,I hope he holds the title til TLC so we can see him do one on a ladder, or maybe a table :D

Cena,ugghhh wat can be said? Somebody said something about looking at it from a booking/business perspective. How is it smart booking,or even competent booking, if you have absolutely NO credible opponents for your champ? The Cena/Rock program isn't til april,he doesn't need to hot potato the title right now,especially with Punk tied up in Nash/Punk,who the hell is a credible challenger for Cena? Not Del Rio,the one month title reign and absolutely NO buildup pretty much buried the guy. So who's #1 contender now? If it's Del Rio still,save yourself the waste of time in watching that match because either Cena wins(yay!) or Del Rio gets another meaningless title reign, and it will be meaningless mind you,because Cena will just take the title off him whenever t[he]y want. I don't care if Cena wins after a good feud,I'll love it if he wins after a great feud,but this just shows how little the WWE respects their talent. Instead of building Del Rio as a mainevent contender and Raw's top heel,he's another Cena bitch. It's funny how smackdown has a new level of legitimacy with Henry and Cena just set the raw main event scene back another couple of years. Pathetic

The Brown One
09-19-2011, 05:34 AM
I'm happy with Henry winning,however he is NOT the top big man in the WWE, and who the hell knows if he draws? I haven't seen Smackdown's ratings jump during Henry segments. Smackdown DOES need a credible,powerful heel,the sneaky,cheating heel was a good fit for christian,but it's only exciting when the heel holds the title,and the face(Orton) chases him. When the good guy keeps getting cheated out of the title by the cheater every time,you really do enjoy it when the face finally wins. They did the reverse,by putting the title on Orton and having Christian chase and it didn't work out. TBH,Smackdown needed a change,and Henry as the badass dominant heel is a great breath of fresh air and its something they havent had in a while. Although he's had a pretty limited moveset for a while, I like the Vaderbomb on the chair,I hope he holds the title til TLC so we can see him do one on a ladder, or maybe a table :D

Cena,ugghhh wat can be said? Somebody said something about looking at it from a booking/business perspective. How is it smart booking,or even competent booking, if you have absolutely NO credible opponents for your champ? The Cena/Rock program isn't til april,he doesn't need to hot potato the title right now,especially with Punk tied up in Nash/Punk,who the hell is a credible challenger for Cena? Not Del Rio,the one month title reign and absolutely NO buildup pretty much buried the guy. So who's #1 contender now? If it's Del Rio still,save yourself the waste of time in watching that match because either Cena wins(yay!) or Del Rio gets another meaningless title reign, and it will be meaningless mind you,because Cena will just take the title off him whenever t[he]y want. I don't care if Cena wins after a good feud,I'll love it if he wins after a great feud,but this just shows how little the WWE respects their talent. Instead of building Del Rio as a mainevent contender and Raw's top heel,he's another Cena bitch. It's funny how smackdown has a new level of legitimacy with Henry and Cena just set the raw main event scene back another couple of years. Pathetic

Good point. I hear people saying that Smackdown is crap. No more crappier than Raw. Smackdown lacks the storylines that Raw has, but the wrestling is better IMO (even the Divas, and thats saying a lot), and their main event scene isn't crowded or doomed.

Tomsta666
09-19-2011, 06:01 AM
Good point. I hear people saying that Smackdown is crap. No more crappier than Raw. Smackdown lacks the storylines that Raw has, but the wrestling is better IMO (even the Divas, and thats saying a lot), and their main event scene isn't crowded or doomed.

That maybe the reasoning behind the RAW super show! ;)

BlazersDozen
09-19-2011, 06:03 AM
Mark Henry's promo after he won the title was great so idk about this can't cut a promo crap. He came straight from the heart the past couple weeks in his promos that AREN'T backstage with Josh Matthews & his promo at NOC after winning the title may keep the title on him a month longer than creative planned.

As far as Cena goes, he hasn't needed the title in years. He sells without it & are just destroying the credibility of majorly talented guys on the RAW brand because nobody outside Triple H, Randy Orton, Sheamus & HBK HAVE beaten him clean in the past 4 years in singles competition. At least Randy Orton puts guys over the most he can while still pleasing creative with the ending of fueds. I loved that he allowed Henry to beat him clean at NOC. It shows how much respect he has for how loyal Mark Henry has been to the WWE & wrestling in general.

LuckIsForLosers
09-19-2011, 06:57 AM
Mark Henry's promo after he won the title was great so idk about this can't cut a promo crap. He came straight from the heart the past couple weeks in his promos that AREN'T backstage with Josh Matthews & his promo at NOC after winning the title may keep the title on him a month longer than creative planned.

As far as Cena goes, he hasn't needed the title in years. He sells without it & are just destroying the credibility of majorly talented guys on the RAW brand because nobody outside Triple H, Randy Orton, Sheamus & HBK HAVE beaten him clean in the past 4 years in singles competition. At least Randy Orton puts guys over the most he can while still pleasing creative with the ending of fueds. I loved that he allowed Henry to beat him clean at NOC. It shows how much respect he has for how loyal Mark Henry has been to the WWE & wrestling in general.

Apart from the part I have put in bold on the above quote, I pretty much echo this.

Henry is not "Mr I can't cut a promo". As a face he was a buffoonish character, akin to an R-Truth-esque goofball and so didn't have opportunities for promos. His ECW title heel-run was stale and boring because of booking. Injuries before that marred any opportunities. The past few weeks have shown that, like most superstars who are good on the mic, when put in a situation and angle that KIND OF reflects his real life sentiments, he cuts a solid promo e.g. the ones since he annihilated Kane and Show and the one after the match. As for in-ring, for a big guy he is NOT bad at all. He has been solid. His demolition over the past few months has been leading up to this and necessitated a title run and this was PROVED by the fact that after he won, the crowd ERUPTED. He IS thus "over". He is a rare breed of heel that doesn't need an unclean finish to win the world title AND still be cheered/respected. And 15 years deserved this.

The KK thing was a bit of a shock. Maybe creative thought that, this being the Divas division, the residents of Buffalo NY wouldn't actually care as much as they did that Beth was from their home town and thought that they'd be more behind KK the face.

As for Cena winning, I explained my views on that on my recent "Let's go Alberto" thread. Most people hate Cena because he's so PG, so boring and "can't wrestle". I don't - I'm neither going to defend Cena with the "he's a hard worker and entertainer" or slam him with "you can't wrestle!"...the issue here isn't really about Cena, aside from the fact that it is boring seeing him as champ again. The two issues, as people have already said on this thread are:

1) What the hell are creative doing to ADR? People seem to dislike him on this forum but his promos are good, they make you want to hate him. In-ring I can't understand why certain people say he isn't impressive. Combination of quick/X-Division-ish kicks, submissions, suplexes and other moves make him better in-ring than a lot of WWE talent. And without pissing CM Punk off, he 'looks like a champ'. Creative cannot keep pushing him then burying him - it's getting irritating - either Del Rio is the next gen of talent and will be a champ/main event talent from now for the foreseeable future, or he is a mid-card talent that will wither in the mid-card/leave. They should make the decision now - he has proved himself and done the work, now his fate lies in WWE's hands.

2) It's more worrying seeing young talent being screwed over by WWE Creative. They see the need to put the belt on Cena constantly. Before someone says "it's good for business", yes, it is. But there are other alternatives for "good for business" - an example being CM Punk. In a matter of months, CM Punk has gone to being the top shirt seller in the WWE. WWE could do the same for other talented superstars. The problem is is that Cena does not really have short reigns. It is very likely he will now hold this title for MONTHS, maybe even until him v Rock at 'Mania - that's not only boring and same old, but it means that other talent, talent that NEEDS to be pushed, will not have the belt.

Poot-Hair
09-19-2011, 07:09 AM
Apart from the part I have put in bold on the above quote, I pretty much echo this.

Henry is not "Mr I can't cut a promo". As a face he was a buffoonish character, akin to an R-Truth-esque goofball and so didn't have opportunities for promos. His ECW title heel-run was stale and boring because of booking. Injuries before that marred any opportunities. The past few weeks have shown that, like most superstars who are good on the mic, when put in a situation and angle that KIND OF reflects his real life sentiments, he cuts a solid promo e.g. the ones since he annihilated Kane and Show and the one after the match. As for in-ring, for a big guy he is NOT bad at all. He has been solid. His demolition over the past few months has been leading up to this and necessitated a title run and this was PROVED by the fact that after he won, the crowd ERUPTED. He IS thus "over". He is a rare breed of heel that doesn't need an unclean finish to win the world title AND still be cheered/respected. And 15 years deserved this.

The KK thing was a bit of a shock. Maybe creative thought that, this being the Divas division, the residents of Buffalo NY wouldn't actually care as much as they did that Beth was from their home town and thought that they'd be more behind KK the face.

As for Cena winning, I explained my views on that on my recent "Let's go Alberto" thread. Most people hate Cena because he's so PG, so boring and "can't wrestle". I don't - I'm neither going to defend Cena with the "he's a hard worker and entertainer" or slam him with "you can't wrestle!"...the issue here isn't really about Cena, aside from the fact that it is boring seeing him as champ again. The two issues, as people have already said on this thread are:

1) What the hell are creative doing to ADR? People seem to dislike him on this forum but his promos are good, they make you want to hate him. In-ring I can't understand why certain people say he isn't impressive. Combination of quick/X-Division-ish kicks, submissions, suplexes and other moves make him better in-ring than a lot of WWE talent. And without pissing CM Punk off, he 'looks like a champ'. Creative cannot keep pushing him then burying him - it's getting irritating - either Del Rio is the next gen of talent and will be a champ/main event talent from now for the foreseeable future, or he is a mid-card talent that will wither in the mid-card/leave. They should make the decision now - he has proved himself and done the work, now his fate lies in WWE's hands.

2) It's more worrying seeing young talent being screwed over by WWE Creative. They see the need to put the belt on Cena constantly. Before someone says "it's good for business", yes, it is. But there are other alternatives for "good for business" - an example being CM Punk. In a matter of months, CM Punk has gone to being the top shirt seller in the WWE. WWE could do the same for other talented superstars. The problem is is that Cena does not really have short reigns. It is very likely he will now hold this title for MONTHS, maybe even until him v Rock at 'Mania - that's not only boring and same old, but it means that other talent, talent that NEEDS to be pushed, will not have the belt.
^^^^This whole thing right here^^^^ I just can't help but to wonder if Cena is tired of the same old same? Maybe he wants to change and it's "not good for business right now" I mean he's fully aware of what the IWC thinks about him...hmmm

The Brown One
09-19-2011, 08:02 AM
That maybe the reasoning behind the RAW super show! ;)

I wish it was. But creative isn't that smart. I heard the reason for the Supershow concept was because they wanted more people to watch Smackdown, which they could achieve by featuring their talents on Raw.

steveorton
09-19-2011, 08:19 AM
Mark "Can't Cut a Promo" Henry beats Orton for the World Title

John "Bout to Break Flair's Record" Cena beats the up and coming Del Rio for the WWE Title

But Kelly "I Can Not Wrestle" Kelly beats Phoenix for the Divas Title

Seriously what kind of bull sh!t is this WWE? Del Rio should of had a nice four month plus run with the title to give him some credibility as a champion because this now puts his championship match record to a 2-5 I believe. With one of those championship wins coming on an already beaten CM Punk. Then you give Mark Henry the title? Seriously the guy who has only two promos. Heel I'm the World's Strongest Man so I'll hurt you and the face well now I'm nice, but I can hurt heels. Henry has a severely limited move set inside the ring and has never given me that I am now incredibly over promo or that promo that just made me say wow. If Henry holds the title longer then Christian, I would bank on it that this is a charity run with the title for all he has done for the WWE, then it is an insult to Christian who is not only far superior to Henry in the ring, but could run circles around Henry with a microphone. Kelly Kelly speaks for herself.

What do you guys think? Do you think I'm wrong? Do you think I'm right? Please let me know your opinions as long as they are intelligent.

1. Why didn't they give Beth the title I just can't understand this. K2 is horrible and if Beth and Nat doesn't start to back up what they say the DOD will start to loose credibility.
2. Cena winning just stupid. If they wanted him to win they could have let him by DQ or something and still keep the title on ADR.
3. I don't mind the world title run by Henry I think he has earned it but I wouldn't mind if Christian was the one to take it.

johnnydropkicks
09-19-2011, 08:38 AM
Mark can't cut a promo hasn't been relevant since he switched to this monster. He's been cutting some of the best promo of anybody on the roster.

Foxx
09-19-2011, 08:42 AM
Mark can't cut a promo hasn't been relevant since he switched to this monster. He's been cutting some of the best promo of anybody on the roster.

True...and also...I read that Beth was scheduled to actually WIN last night...besides Rey Mysterio she is the only person I remember losing a championship match in their hometown lol

K2 sucks...I kno she is improving but she has been a wrestler FAR too long...she should be much better than that by now...the Diva division has been a joke for years now...Lita, Chyna, Trish, Sable etc set the bar WAY to far...lol

nrb6304
09-19-2011, 09:28 AM
will somebody PLEASE show me the EVER SO GREAT Alberto Del Rio matches? Cause supposedly he's got the "IT" factor.

I'm not one to cheer for John Cena winning the WWE title again, but I won't lie, I could care for ADR a lot less then I care for Cena. (IDK if that made sense) I hate ADR more then Cena lol. (There ya go kid!) And besides, from a booking stand point, whether or not you WANT to believe it, there's only a MILLION more things to do with Cena then there is ADR. Hell at least with Cena you could throw an up and coming heel in the ring with him and make him a legit main eventer (ever heard of little guy named Sheamus?)

steveorton
09-19-2011, 09:42 AM
will somebody PLEASE show me the EVER SO GREAT Alberto Del Rio matches? Cause supposedly he's got the "IT" factor.

I'm not one to cheer for John Cena winning the WWE title again, but I won't lie, I could care for ADR a lot less then I care for Cena. (IDK if that made sense) I hate ADR more then Cena lol. (There ya go kid!) And besides, from a booking stand point, whether or not you WANT to believe it, there's only a MILLION more things to do with Cena then there is ADR. Hell at least with Cena you could throw an up and coming heel in the ring with him and make him a legit main eventer (ever heard of little guy named Sheamus?)

^^^^this^^^^

zrdt12
09-19-2011, 09:55 AM
I really hope Cena's win is just so he can lose it back to ADR at Hell in a Cell and put ADR over like he should. Probably just because they want Cena to be a 100 time champion, from here on out every month he's going to win the title and drop it the next month.

Henry deserves the title. He's worked 15 years and gotten nowhere. They made him into an undestructible character and it would be really sad for Orton to piss on his parade.

So Punk gets the win in his hometown, Beth gets the loss. Two straight losses via roll ups seriously?

wrestlingfan66513
09-19-2011, 10:10 AM
My prediction contest results went down the drain with this PPV. That sucks since I have been in the top 15 since I started.

VanHooliganX
09-19-2011, 10:17 AM
Mark "Can't Cut a Promo" Henry beats Orton for the World Title

John "Bout to Break Flair's Record" Cena beats the up and coming Del Rio for the WWE Title

But Kelly "I Can Not Wrestle" Kelly beats Phoenix for the Divas Title

Seriously what kind of bull sh!t is this WWE? Del Rio should of had a nice four month plus run with the title to give him some credibility as a champion because this now puts his championship match record to a 2-5 I believe. With one of those championship wins coming on an already beaten CM Punk. Then you give Mark Henry the title? Seriously the guy who has only two promos. Heel I'm the World's Strongest Man so I'll hurt you and the face well now I'm nice, but I can hurt heels. Henry has a severely limited move set inside the ring and has never given me that I am now incredibly over promo or that promo that just made me say wow. If Henry holds the title longer then Christian, I would bank on it that this is a charity run with the title for all he has done for the WWE, then it is an insult to Christian who is not only far superior to Henry in the ring, but could run circles around Henry with a microphone. Kelly Kelly speaks for herself.

What do you guys think? Do you think I'm wrong? Do you think I'm right? Please let me know your opinions as long as they are intelligent.

Mark Henry deserved the win and be happy Orton lost cleanly ffs, it was a great surprise and a good promo after the match.

As for Cena and Smelly Smelly. Agreed. Great push for Del Rio...not and how is anyone supposed to believe S2 can beat Beth seriously!
Went downhill after Ortons match
Great fatal 4 way though :)

CrowOfMurders
09-19-2011, 12:31 PM
will somebody PLEASE show me the EVER SO GREAT Alberto Del Rio matches? Cause supposedly he's got the "IT" factor.

I'm not one to cheer for John Cena winning the WWE title again, but I won't lie, I could care for ADR a lot less then I care for Cena. (IDK if that made sense) I hate ADR more then Cena lol. (There ya go kid!) And besides, from a booking stand point, whether or not you WANT to believe it, there's only a MILLION more things to do with Cena then there is ADR. Hell at least with Cena you could throw an up and coming heel in the ring with him and make him a legit main eventer (ever heard of little guy named Sheamus?)

Hate ADR as much as you want,that's your right,but to defend Cena winning the belt again is asinine,it makes EVERYTHING that's happened from the royal rumble to MITB to Del Rio winning the belt at all a complete waste,and they just flushed his push down the crapper. And you're justification is...they're gonna build another up and coming heel up? Like who? Miz and Truth are tagging, Ziggler and Swagger are in a program,any major heels on the horizon? Drew "Superstars main eventer" McEntyre? Or maybe Kevin Nash(he seems to be the biggest heel on Raw right now after ADR) OR i know, RODRIGUEZ! he's the up and comer heel Cena can do a million things with. And Sheamus' random skyrocket main event push worked out SOO well right? He's only NOW crawling out of his burial, and before anyone says"that's what they're doing w/ Del Rio" it's not, he hasn't gone over enough for his eventual burial,hell,besides Mysterio, who else put him over? Cena winning the title was asinine,idiotic,boring and repetitive, ADR haters not withstanding

CrowOfMurders
09-19-2011, 12:42 PM
^^^^This whole thing right here^^^^ I just can't help but to wonder if Cena is tired of the same old same? Maybe he wants to change and it's "not good for business right now" I mean he's fully aware of what the IWC thinks about him...hmmm
From Cena's promos, interviews and what he says all the time in general,he doesn't give a shit what the IWC thinks of him, he only cares about his lil jimmy fans and that's it. As long as Cena still sells his hats,tshirts and headbands, he's happy being the go-to-guy,even if it's go-to-Cena,change the channel for people watching WWE programming. I think the WWE mentality right now is,They've given the older fans what they wanted in a Cena/Punk program,and had Punk hold the title for a month,now its time to get back to business, I also suspect there's a huge pressure from sponsors and advertisers to keep golden boy in the limelight,god forbid a tatooed counterculture rebel or a minority become the face of the company(as in the WWE CHAMP on RAW)

steveorton
09-19-2011, 12:50 PM
Hate ADR as much as you want,that's your right,but to defend Cena winning the belt again is asinine,it makes EVERYTHING that's happened from the royal rumble to MITB to Del Rio winning the belt at all a complete waste,and they just flushed his push down the crapper. And you're justification is...they're gonna build another up and coming heel up? Like who? Miz and Truth are tagging, Ziggler and Swagger are in a program,any major heels on the horizon? Drew "Superstars main eventer" McEntyre? Or maybe Kevin Nash(he seems to be the biggest heel on Raw right now after ADR) OR i know, RODRIGUEZ! he's the up and comer heel Cena can do a million things with. And Sheamus' random skyrocket main event push worked out SOO well right? He's only NOW crawling out of his burial, and before anyone says"that's what they're doing w/ Del Rio" it's not, he hasn't gone over enough for his eventual burial,hell,besides Mysterio, who else put him over? Cena winning the title was asinine,idiotic,boring and repetitive, ADR haters not withstanding

I understand Cena doesn't need that WWE title and I completley agree with you on that but I just want to be clear I just don't see why the IWC likes ADR that much. I wouldn't have mind if Ziggler or Miz won that title but as you said they are doing other things at the moment I just find ADR very boring. He's average in the ring, has charisma and somewhat good on the mic but the major thing for me is he isn't that over. Watch some the reactions from the crowd when he comes out: Silence. IMO I would rather Cena have the title than ADR but again thats just how I feel.

Y2J___Y2J
09-19-2011, 02:34 PM
What really annoys me .. is that Cena won the title AGAIN.. the third time in three months.. WTF.. damn.. at least give ADR a credible title reign

CrowOfMurders
09-19-2011, 02:46 PM
I understand Cena doesn't need that WWE title and I completley agree with you on that but I just want to be clear I just don't see why the IWC likes ADR that much. I wouldn't have mind if Ziggler or Miz won that title but as you said they are doing other things at the moment I just find ADR very boring. He's average in the ring, has charisma and somewhat good on the mic but the major thing for me is he isn't that over. Watch some the reactions from the crowd when he comes out: Silence. IMO I would rather Cena have the title than ADR but again thats just how I feel.

I personally am not amazed by Del Rio myself, but they've been building him for SOO long now,and it's like, *blink* and Cena has the title again? WTF? Even if Del Rio isn't over yet(I think it's creative's fault,they've barely built him up on Raw,even prior to his title win,and they've already lost faith in him.) But Del Rio offered something different,he has a different style,different kind of moves,and this was his chance to carve out his place in WWE history. As I stated before,EVERY other credible heel who would be able to take this opportunity is in a program with ANOTHER title, so what was the point? I don't mind Del Rio dropping the belt, but WHY CENA? Have him drop to Punk,JoMo,hell have Bryan,Wade,Christian,or even Rhodes beat him for the title and switch over to Raw,but NOT CENA,Cena doesn't put guys over,have good feuds,or do anything that helps anyone he's been involved in,he's always carried,and he doesn't need to be carried as champ ANY MORE!

Peter Kaymakcian
09-19-2011, 02:57 PM
will somebody PLEASE show me the EVER SO GREAT Alberto Del Rio matches? Cause supposedly he's got the "IT" factor.

I'm not one to cheer for John Cena winning the WWE title again, but I won't lie, I could care for ADR a lot less then I care for Cena. (IDK if that made sense) I hate ADR more then Cena lol. (There ya go kid!) And besides, from a booking stand point, whether or not you WANT to believe it, there's only a MILLION more things to do with Cena then there is ADR. Hell at least with Cena you could throw an up and coming heel in the ring with him and make him a legit main eventer (ever heard of little guy named Sheamus?)

Okay other then Sheamus who else has Cena "put over"? Would you pleas enlighten me on that? As long as Cena has been champion he rarely has put people over. I don't know if it is Cena's choice or Creative's but Cena has never put anyone over with the exception being Sheamus.

Peter Kaymakcian
09-19-2011, 03:18 PM
It is quite clear that you have no idea how to make money or how to book an entertaining show.

As much as I hate John Cena as Champion, it was definitely the wisest move at the moment. They have done absolutely nothing with Del Rio since winning the championship, and I really don't see anything special with him. He's mediocre on the microphone and his ring work is good. Cena is the definite bigger draw and will bring in the bigger ratings. Even though I was definitely on Del Rio's side all match.

Mark Henry's promo skills may not be the best, but nor are Orton's. And who cares about Christian? You drone on and on about Christian being embarrassed as champion. Christian COULD NOT DRAW, Henry CAN DRAW that is why Henry is champion and and Christian is not. It's that simple. I don't understand how it's difficult to understand. I think Henry will have a pretty lengthy reign... maybe until the end of the year like Kane did last Fall.

I will agree with you on Kelly Kelly. I thought for a fact that Beth was taking her out! I don't like Kelly as much as the next person but she is a draw and people, for whatever reasons, actually want to watch her as Champion. Beth isn't completely over I would say as far as being a heel. But I'm still shocked by Beth's loss.

I would suggest thinking about it from a booking and business stand point. All of the outcomes tonight were in the best interest for booking and continuing storylines and the for, the all important, business.

Actually you aren't the one who knows how to run a business or successful show. See there things in shows called demographics. A demographic is the age, ethnicity, gender, and various other groups you can put viewers/people into. Now when considering demographics you should also consider many other things like what will this demographic buy or what they can afford. Now Cena's demographic is mainly composed of kids(12 and under) and women. While ADR's featured demographic is most likely the latino demographic which is a huge demographic in wrestling due to lucha libre. Now women and children will buy shirts and toys, while the latin demographic will buy PPVs, toys(for their kids), tickets for live shows, and shirts. So what this means is that if ADR was properly built up like a Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara he is more likely to sell to his demographic. How do you properly build up superstars? A nice title reign and winning. No one likes a loser.

As for comparing Orton to Henry. I do agree that Orton's promo skills aren't great, but they are better then Henry's and as far as in ring ability and psychology goes Orton is again better then Henry. Christian never had a chance to draw. He held the title for a combined 30 days as champion. Also what proof do you have that Henry is a draw? What proof do you have that Christian isn't a draw?

Best for business? I think you should take a business class before trying to lecture people about the fundamentals of business before trying to lecture someone about business.

@People saying stop complaining
If I am a consumer or for those who don't speak business someone buying the product I have a right to complain. That is how things get better. Constructive criticism is good for businesses because it helps them grow as a whole.

LuckIsForLosers
09-19-2011, 03:52 PM
I understand Cena doesn't need that WWE title and I completley agree with you on that but I just want to be clear I just don't see why the IWC likes ADR that much. I wouldn't have mind if Ziggler or Miz won that title but as you said they are doing other things at the moment I just find ADR very boring. He's average in the ring, has charisma and somewhat good on the mic but the major thing for me is he isn't that over. Watch some the reactions from the crowd when he comes out: Silence. IMO I would rather Cena have the title than ADR but again thats just how I feel.

Really and really (Miz voice)?

If Del Rio is average in the ring then it would appear that most of the WWE is below average ---> terrible. I would say he's solid in the ring! But each to their own...

As for the silence, I really don't follow - I'm SURE that everytime he comes out, he's greeted by a wealth of boo's? Perhaps I'm wrong and haven't been concentrating on the exhilarating Bret Hart ft Cena tag matches...

LuckIsForLosers
09-19-2011, 03:59 PM
Actually you aren't the one who knows how to run a business or successful show. See there things in shows called demographics. A demographic is the age, ethnicity, gender, and various other groups you can put viewers/people into. Now when considering demographics you should also consider many other things like what will this demographic buy or what they can afford. Now Cena's demographic is mainly composed of kids(12 and under) and women. While ADR's featured demographic is most likely the latino demographic which is a huge demographic in wrestling due to lucha libre. Now women and children will buy shirts and toys, while the latin demographic will buy PPVs, toys(for their kids), tickets for live shows, and shirts. So what this means is that if ADR was properly built up like a Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara he is more likely to sell to his demographic. How do you properly build up superstars? A nice title reign and winning. No one likes a loser.

As for comparing Orton to Henry. I do agree that Orton's promo skills aren't great, but they are better then Henry's and as far as in ring ability and psychology goes Orton is again better then Henry. Christian never had a chance to draw. He held the title for a combined 30 days as champion. Also what proof do you have that Henry is a draw? What proof do you have that Christian isn't a draw?

Best for business? I think you should take a business class before trying to lecture people about the fundamentals of business before trying to lecture someone about business.

@People saying stop complaining
If I am a consumer or for those who don't speak business someone buying the product I have a right to complain. That is how things get better. Constructive criticism is good for businesses because it helps them grow as a whole.

Stuff in bold - hmmm...interesting points. Are Orton's promo skills really better than Henry's? Saying words very slowly and monotonously may have a Michael Corleone effect in cinema but in the WWE it kind of constitutes horrific promo skills, no? Wooden, perhaps? Henry isn't much better, but his recent promo and the promos he has done since his "Hall of Pain" reign have been better, more emotional, somewhat more real, as if we can FEEL his angst at not winning a world title during his career (ECW title counts for squat I'm guessing). His Cutting Edge promo, particularly where he said "The only reason I'm going to let you walk out in one piece, Edge, is because....you're right", was great!

Stuff in blue - I guess, none. But what proof did we have that any new champ would be a draw? Usually you have crowd reactions. If we agree on that, then we have sufficient proof that henry will be a draw - the heavy boos he gets on Smackdown show he gets the heel reaction and the cheers he got for winning it clean show that people respect the path his character has taken, respect the fact that he deserves a run and actually LIKE it.

Couldn't agree more with the complaining/consumer comment - it seems some people get extremely uptight about us consumer's voicing opinions, e.g. that Swerve fellow, who accused me of apparently wanting to ride CM Punk's testicles (still don't understand how it's possible).

nrb6304
09-19-2011, 06:01 PM
Okay other then Sheamus who else has Cena "put over"? Would you pleas enlighten me on that? As long as Cena has been champion he rarely has put people over. I don't know if it is Cena's choice or Creative's but Cena has never put anyone over with the exception being Sheamus.

Miz
Cm Punk
Randy Orton
Edge
Not to mention help put guys like R Truth and Miz into the main event
Plus pushed guys like Danielson and Morrison to upper mod card

nrb6304
09-19-2011, 06:04 PM
Actually you aren't the one who knows how to run a business or successful show. See there things in shows called demographics. A demographic is the age, ethnicity, gender, and various other groups you can put viewers/people into. Now when considering demographics you should also consider many other things like what will this demographic buy or what they can afford. Now Cena's demographic is mainly composed of kids(12 and under) and women. While ADR's featured demographic is most likely the latino demographic which is a huge demographic in wrestling due to lucha libre. Now women and children will buy shirts and toys, while the latin demographic will buy PPVs, toys(for their kids), tickets for live shows, and shirts. So what this means is that if ADR was properly built up like a Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara he is more likely to sell to his demographic. How do you properly build up superstars? A nice title reign and winning. No one likes a loser.

As for comparing Orton to Henry. I do agree that Orton's promo skills aren't great, but they are better then Henry's and as far as in ring ability and psychology goes Orton is again better then Henry. Christian never had a chance to draw. He held the title for a combined 30 days as champion. Also what proof do you have that Henry is a draw? What proof do you have that Christian isn't a draw?

Best for business? I think you should take a business class before trying to lecture people about the fundamentals of business before trying to lecture someone about business.

@People saying stop complaining
If I am a consumer or for those who don't speak business someone buying the product I have a right to complain. That is how things get better. Constructive criticism is good for businesses because it helps them grow as a whole.

You don't build a superstar by giving him the. Belt. If your holding the belt you should already be over! Sure it worked with Seamus but it t still sparked controversy anyways

seen_c
09-19-2011, 06:15 PM
I was glad for once that Cena actually win the title, Del Rio is kinda meh. He can be a top dog, but he don't look like that to me. And Henry... It was really surprising that the E' gave him the tittle, but damn he deserved and i think he can run with the ball, improve in the mic and grow in character! I'm sorry if my english is bad... I'm new to the forums.

Peter Kaymakcian
09-19-2011, 11:51 PM
Miz
Cm Punk
Randy Orton
Edge
Not to mention help put guys like R Truth and Miz into the main event
Plus pushed guys like Danielson and Morrison to upper mod card

Miz-Was already over when he won the WWE title and honestly he never once pinned Cena clean. At Mania the Rock interfered and at the very next PPV Cena won the title from the Miz in a triple threat steel cage match. Great job at putting him over.

Punk-His promo put Punk over, not Cena.

Randy Orton-Last time I checked before Cena got injured Orton was made to be Cena's bitch. In fact he beat HHH for the WWE title, not Cena, and didn't actually pin Cena or beat him clean until he was established by the WWE, not Cena, as Raw's top heel.

Edge-I believe Edge got his big break on Smackdown! which Cena hasn't wrestled for since 2005. If your talking about Edge's title reigns well because of Cena Edge's first two WWE Title reigns lasted a little over one month each. Great job as putting Edge over as a champion because one month title reigns doesn't make him look like a transitional champion or anything.

Morrison and Bryan never had one feud/rivalry with Cena. The closest thing Cena has done for them was WWE vs Nexus at SSlam. Bryan was pushed due to his feud with Miz and Morrison was pushed due to his popularity and his natural athleticism in the ring. Truth has had one title match and that was a loss to Cena. Miz had already been explained. Nice try.

Peter Kaymakcian
09-19-2011, 11:52 PM
You don't build a superstar by giving him the. Belt. If your holding the belt you should already be over! Sure it worked with Seamus but it t still sparked controversy anyways

No, but once you get the belt if you get beat within one month and duck matches it makes you look weak and like a paper champion(transitional champion).