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LuckIsForLosers
09-16-2011, 06:24 AM
So this is my first post here (hello).

Now undoubtedly I'm going to get some smug "fat computer marks" (thanks Gunner) reply to this like I'm the kid in class who has special needs. But this is an honest question - I guess now I'm part of the "IWC" but I've only signed up to this to get views on what the "IWC" think of wrestling, rather than shoving the typical "anti-Cena"/"Hogan and Bischoff are killing TNA" views down everyone's throats for the nine-hundred and seventy thousandth time.

So my question to you, the IWC, is:

CM Punk - On the day that CM Punk did his "pipe bomb" shoot promo a few months back, and the few weeks after, everyone was all for CM Punk, "Punk's the best in the world", "Punk's the new Jericho", "Punk's the best on the mic" etc etc etc...

Some have been calling for Punk to be the top guy since he blessed us with commentary last year.

Some, like me, have marked him down since he turned heel years ago, hell, since we saw him in-ring at WWE.

And some have pinned him down as a main eventer since before he was IN WWE.

So why is it that now, over the past month or so, the IWC seems to have got sick of Punk? My opinion is that EVERY promo, as late as the one he just did with "Paul Levesque", since the pipe bomb shoot has been awesome and the few times we've seen him in-ring v Cena and The Miz, he has MADE those matches. Just my opinion, perhaps I'm wrong - I'm just genuinely interested in why so many comment on every Punk piece of news "I thought Punk had the ability to better the WWE, but..."....educate me!

The_Awesome_One
09-16-2011, 06:46 AM
maybe its something to do with that he seems to run his mouth more than he is actually in the ring, and the matches he has had after summerslam apart from the Cena match he has pulled a five moves of doom finish.

Tag
09-16-2011, 06:53 AM
My answer to that is so very simple.
I will not ramble much about it because I did so before, if you want to know exactly why I'm gonna say what I'm gonna say, just check my post log and search for my answer on a thread talking about Sheamus' face turn. I believe it was my last post before this one actually.
I could quote it but it's not needed.
CM Punk is now a face. That's my answer.
Unfortunately for the credibility of some people, the answer is that simple.

monctonvike
09-16-2011, 06:58 AM
To me since he signed his long term contract, he seems more like homogenized punk. His music is toned down and so is he, also his story with nash and triple H isn't that great imo. This is not his fault, he has been carrying it to the best of his ability's. Many might disagree with me, but HHH totally won his argument and, was right last week. There latest promo main even wasn't good at all. I still like him very much, and am looking forward to his future. Hopefully they will give him gold to work with if he is going to be featured on the show two to three times and episode.

jethro
09-16-2011, 07:20 AM
Really IWC sick of Punk? I didn't know that =/

monctonvike
09-16-2011, 07:28 AM
Really IWC sick of Punk? I didn't know that =/


I don't think the IWC is sick of punk at all just about everything he does generates a dozen threads people love him

The Brown One
09-16-2011, 08:42 AM
So this is my first post here (hello).

Now undoubtedly I'm going to get some smug "fat computer marks" (thanks Gunner) reply to this like I'm the kid in class who has special needs. But this is an honest question - I guess now I'm part of the "IWC" but I've only signed up to this to get views on what the "IWC" think of wrestling, rather than shoving the typical "anti-Cena"/"Hogan and Bischoff are killing TNA" views down everyone's throats for the nine-hundred and seventy thousandth time.

So my question to you, the IWC, is:

CM Punk - On the day that CM Punk did his "pipe bomb" shoot promo a few months back, and the few weeks after, everyone was all for CM Punk, "Punk's the best in the world", "Punk's the new Jericho", "Punk's the best on the mic" etc etc etc...

Some have been calling for Punk to be the top guy since he blessed us with commentary last year.

Some, like me, have marked him down since he turned heel years ago, hell, since we saw him in-ring at WWE.

And some have pinned him down as a main eventer since before he was IN WWE.

So why is it that now, over the past month or so, the IWC seems to have got sick of Punk? My opinion is that EVERY promo, as late as the one he just did with "Paul Levesque", since the pipe bomb shoot has been awesome and the few times we've seen him in-ring v Cena and The Miz, he has MADE those matches. Just my opinion, perhaps I'm wrong - I'm just genuinely interested in why so many comment on every Punk piece of news "I thought Punk had the ability to better the WWE, but..."....educate me!

Bullshit. Sorry to disappoint you, but I still love Punk. Loved him from the beginning and always will, no matter where he goes. I'm sure I'm not the only one either. Punk has given people a reason for more IWCers to tune into Raw, maybe even casual wrestling fans - do you hear the huge reaction he gets in the arenas? His character has changed over time, and hes been given more freedom on the mic, and in the ring, so hes definitely interesting to watch. I watched Raw tonight, and it seemed average, but the part that stood out for me was the Punk-Triple H segment at the end. I didn't enjoy it because Punk mentioned their real names, but because he was flawless on the mic. Half the stuff he does is made up on the spot (check out his interviews for proof if you don't believe me), and he doesn't mess up his lines. On top of that, its done on live tv. That would be daunting for most people. Also, he speaks words of truth - he talked about the WWE having a particular mold of wrestlers that get pushed. It has truth to it. In addition to his great promos, he can really go in the ring. Hes been putting on great matches since he debuted on the WWECW brand 5 years ago.

To respond to his speech about wanting change in the WWE, to make it better so to speak..He does seem like he genuinely wants to improve the product. He wants guys that aren't bodybuilders, and who can put on great matches to be showcased rather than the same old stuff with huge guys - Cena, Orton, Batista, Triple H etc. He wants guys like Ryder pushed, who as we've seen in the past, is entertaining on the mic, and is decent in the ring. I don't know how much influence he has, but I would love if they would listen to Punk more often, and take a chance pushing/hiring wrestlers that people would enjoy to see.

LuckIsForLosers
09-16-2011, 09:00 AM
Very interesting points here by everyone. I'll aim to reply to all of you, remind me if I forget anything.

1) I'll start with the post above me from "The Brown One" - Brown One, I think you have misunderstood my thread. First of all, I am not "bashing" Punk. I'm a HUGE fan, always have been, and love the fact that he is in the Main Event. I agree with most of your points - my thread is concerned with the increasing number of comments I have seen from the IWC in response to Ryan Clark's news feeds where Punk seems to be getting bashed quite a lot. I don't agree with it, I'm just raising the point.

2) Someone mentioned Punk's "5 Moves of Doom". I think with WWE guys in the main event, especially now, this is a risk. Main Event matches in WWE today have a solidified routine - face starts off dominating, heel takes control (usually kick in the gut), commercial break, heel has a sleeper on the face, heel dominates a bit more, face hits 5 moves of dooms, face wins. Of course when the heel wins this is different (hehe), but you catch my drift. My point being that I don't think Punk, and, for that matter, Cena, have the freedom to do what they want. Watching Punk's better/older matches, you can see the versatility and in=ring ability he brings.

3) The ring time being less - I think this is WWE doing it on purpose, and perhaps a good move - Punk is GOLD on the mic - we get a couple of matches vs The Miz and R-Truth and then Punk promos. A Punk promo is like a guilty pleasure - as a wrestling fan, you're MEANT to want to see quality in-ring performance, but let's be honest, we're all a sucker for a Punk promo. Every week, if a Punk promo is the main event, we anticipate it strongly and look forward to it - unpredictable to an extent. At the same time, if Punk's in=-ring is "saved" till a PPV, it prevents it from getting boring, right?

4) Tag - haven't had a chance to see your blog, but I'm assuming you mean Punk isn't a good face. My opinion, of course, I strongly disagree - Punk is a face just because he says 1) what he wants and 2) what many fans think. Now if Punk suddenly dropped the scathing promos and became an ass-kissing hypocrite, then I'd agree with you. But he just tells it like it is, and fans love him for that, and in that way, he's a good face. Perhaps if Punk had this gimmick say in 2005, when far fewer people booed Cena, Punk would be a heel. I'm sure that if Punk didn't get the reception he got, then he'd be booked as a heel with totally the same character.

5) Perhaps HHH "won" the argument - or maybe he didn't, considering he referenced Cena as an example - as much a workhorse as the man did, it would be unfair to say loads of other superstars aren't as hardworking. Whether you love or hate Cena, his looks, build and politics (YES, sorry to burst the bubble, I don't think he's QUITE as selfless and overflowing with integrity in real life), combined with the talent and hard work has helped him, not JUST the talent and hard work. HHH also kept repeating over and over again "You need to get the audience over" - kinda a "fail" since they were chanting "CM PUNK!". Also, I thought the promo was very good, very intense and the finish was brilliant.

All of this is just my opinion, mind :D

Y2Jryder
09-16-2011, 10:22 AM
I'm not getting sick of Punk I'm just getting sick of threads like these about Punk. over and over again.

LuckIsForLosers
09-16-2011, 10:48 AM
This is neither a "I hate Punk thread" nor a "Punk > than everyone else/Cena thread" - just purely interested in seeing what people think of the guy...

Purely out of curiosity, if you're sick of such threads, pray tell why did you read and comment on said thread?

Thanks for the insight

KJ PUNK
09-16-2011, 10:51 AM
I will always like Punk, no matter what. Well, unless he goes to TNA.

Off Topic: Your sig actually exists. It's called Smackdown vs Raw 2008 ;)

LuckIsForLosers
09-16-2011, 11:01 AM
I will always like Punk, no matter what. Well, unless he goes to TNA.

Off Topic: Your sig actually exists. It's called Smackdown vs Raw 2008 ;)

Haha, even though I'm a TNA fan (and WWE for that matter), that's hilarious!

So TNA would wreck Punk huh? To be honest, I think Eric and Hulk, or should I say the man of many talents Vince Russo, would maybe do that. Punk needs a forum to excel anyway - his promos if done in front of the stale TNA Orlando rent-a-crowd would probably come across as a bitter man whining (cue-people-who-dislike-Punk-saying-this-is-him-anyway)

Y2Jryder
09-16-2011, 11:17 AM
This is neither a "I hate Punk thread" nor a "Punk > than everyone else/Cena thread" - just purely interested in seeing what people think of the guy...

Purely out of curiosity, if you're sick of such threads, pray tell why did you read and comment on said thread?

Thanks for the insight

I'm reading this threads because I still hope there is something different about the thread. I'm wrong again.

You just signed up to make a Punk thread? now that's lame

Dameduse823
09-16-2011, 11:54 AM
So why is it that now, over the past month or so, the IWC seems to have got sick of Punk?

Same reason they got sick of Zack Ryder, because they got what they wanted and realized that it wasn't as good as they thought it would be

LuckIsForLosers
09-16-2011, 11:55 AM
I'm reading this threads because I still hope there is something different about the thread. I'm wrong again.

You just signed up to make a Punk thread? now that's lame

Considering the thread's title is "CM Punk and the IWC" , generally that would mean it's a thread about CM Punk, and with that being the case, again, why read it if this subject bores you? If you thought the "CM Punk" in the thread title meant something other than the wrestler "CM Punk", then I apologise. If you have trouble reading/are vision impaired/have a brain-eye-type disability, then again, I apologise. If you don't understand English, again, I apologise.

But, if you read the thread title "CM Punk and the IWC" and knew that the title ACTUALLY meant that this was a thread about CM Punk, then what is "lame" is you commenting that you don't like CM Punk threads, yet reading the thread and continuing to comment...am I right?


You just signed up to make a Punk thread? now that's lame

Nope, wrong again (sigh) - I DIDN'T just sign up to make a Punk thread - I plan to make many more threads, some that include CM Punk's name (I'll be sure to message you in the future to let you know so you can "avoid" them), and some that don't. Just thought I'd finish this thread before I make my next.

That understandable enough for you? If not, I'll be happy to explain in plainer terms.

Thanks again for the valuable insight.

LuckIsForLosers
09-16-2011, 11:59 AM
Same reason they got sick of Zack Ryder, because they got what they wanted and realized that it wasn't as good as they thought it would be

Interesting...I agree on the Zack Ryder thing, you know - I think it boils down to how the powers that be decide to use the question in talent. Back when the Zack Ryder push thing came about, as you say, we anticipated it...now, well - as talented as the broski may or may not be, did we really expect a nWo-esque heel turn with his character and persona in mind?

So that's a good point. Personally, I feel that with Punk we got what we wanted and it WAS as good as we thought it'd be, but that's just my opinion.

So did Punk not meet expectations for you Dameduse? Or did Creative not meet expectations for you?

Y2J___Y2J
09-16-2011, 12:24 PM
It's the IWC.. new poster boy every month.! Orton - Christian - Zach Ryder - CM Punk - Next Guy,
But the last 1 year and a half, Punk has been especially awesome.

LuckIsForLosers
09-16-2011, 12:37 PM
It's the IWC.. new poster boy every month.! Orton - Christian - Zach Ryder - CM Punk - Next Guy,
But the last 1 year and a half, Punk has been especially awesome.

The best explanation I've heard on the thread, makes sense to me.

Tag
09-16-2011, 01:11 PM
4) Tag - haven't had a chance to see your blog, but I'm assuming you mean Punk isn't a good face. My opinion, of course, I strongly disagree - Punk is a face just because he says 1) what he wants and 2) what many fans think. Now if Punk suddenly dropped the scathing promos and became an ass-kissing hypocrite, then I'd agree with you. But he just tells it like it is, and fans love him for that, and in that way, he's a good face. Perhaps if Punk had this gimmick say in 2005, when far fewer people booed Cena, Punk would be a heel. I'm sure that if Punk didn't get the reception he got, then he'd be booked as a heel with totally the same character.



Wrong. I love Punk as a face. I was rooting for it for quite a while actually. And I'm absolutely loving this face CM Punk.
But I wasn't too specific, so it's normal you confused it a bit. My point (which I wrote about in the thread I mentioned) is that the IWC blindly changes opinion on a wrestler based on their face/heel status. There are some people here (not all though) that think that all heels are good wrestlers, and have personality bursting through their skin, and that all faces are boring, and have 0 charisma, and 0 skills.
Most recent case was Sheamus. As a heel, he was being wasted, had so much talent, full package, etc...Turns face, and people start shooting "has no ability, can't cut a promo, is not intense anymore". When he's absolutely the exact same character as before, just face.

This is not even close to happening with CM Punk. But if it does in the future, can't say I will be surprised. Some people (not all, luckily) will be happy only when everyone is heel and there is no faces.

LuckIsForLosers
09-16-2011, 01:29 PM
Understood Tag, that's also, along with Y2J_Y2J's point a great explanation - it DOES seem that people jump on the heel bandwagon and blast faces.

I never was on the whole IWC thing until very very recently, but I remember back in the Legacy days, people I knew loved Orton heel. He has the same sadistic persona now, and whether you think he's limited talent-wise or not, he has the same strengths and weaknesses today, yet those same people despise him now. I guess it was different back when the Faces were people like Bret, Shawn, Rocky, Austin etc...but that's another debate for another time

midian
09-16-2011, 01:32 PM
I'm a big fan of Punk since his ROH days and been glued to Raw every week to see what happens next, but I think why a lot of the IWC are getting of the Punk bandwagon is he has become in some peoples eyes Metallica's Black Album,as do many wrestlers who make it to the main event.in other words there was a tight group of die hard fans who say this is our guy,but now everyone is a fan of CM Punk so now the response is pfft fuck him.

Tag
09-16-2011, 01:39 PM
Understood Tag, that's also, along with Y2J_Y2J's point a great explanation - it DOES seem that people jump on the heel bandwagon and blast faces.

I never was on the whole IWC thing until very very recently, but I remember back in the Legacy days, people I knew loved Orton heel. He has the same sadistic persona now, and whether you think he's limited talent-wise or not, he has the same strengths and weaknesses today, yet those same people despise him now. I guess it was different back when the Faces were people like Bret, Shawn, Rocky, Austin etc...but that's another debate for another time

Thought it wasn't needed but I'll do it anyway. Here is the answer I told you about. Do note that this was on a thread about Sheamus' face turn, and him saving Cena.


I´ve been reading from this forum for quite some time now to be able to justify what I'm about to say.
The problem here is that the IWC tends to love the heels almost blindly.
I find it disturbing how people's opinion on a wrestler (as in wrestling ability, promo cutting, etc) just changes as quick as WWE makes a guy have a turn.
General rule I have seen over the years: The IWC will love a heel until he turns face, and then will criticize him for being stale, boring, corny, and whatnot. On the other hand, the IWC will suggest almost every available babyface should leave the company ASAP, but when one of them turns heel, it's the next big thing. Yes, it bugs me. No, I'm not a Cena-mark under the age of 10. I'm 21, and I hate his gimmick as much as the next guy, although I am far from disliking him as a person.
I'll give you some examples ( Regardless of my own opinion on them)
Randy Orton- When he fought Cena almost a full year as a heel, everyone loved him and his in-ring work. He ended up being cheered so much that he had to actually turn face so it would make some sense. He turns face, and puff, people start saying he's boring, robotic, and has 0 mic and wrestling skills.
R-Truth- People were begging for him to be fired. Turns heel, next big thing. Seriously?
Sheamus- People were crying for this one. He was heel, but had nothing going for him story-line wise, and people wondered how can such a talented full-package guy be wasted like that. "PLEASE GIVE HIM SOMETHING". Okay. He turns face. "Not believable, fake, no longer a warrior, etc". /facepalm
Christian- The amount of times I seen people begging for him to turn heel before he actually did does not even make sense. So, you love the guy, love his work, and feel that a world championship is way overdue, so you mark out for any accomplishment he does. But, even so, you want him a bad guy?
Edge- One of the best heels in the WWE, ever. Hands down. But that's not my point. Everyone enjoys his heel work (even me), but he turns face and all of a sudden people say it didn't feel organic, that it's not believable, that he doesn't seem to have fun in the business anymore, that he's slow, and so on. Now he's gone, and I seen some people say his last year tarnished his career.
Daniel Bryan- People say that he needs to turn heel to show his wrestling skills properly. Nuff said.

I could go on. Hell, I'm sure there's more examples that I don't even know of, since I'm from Portugal, and I didn't know wrestling until it was presented to me in one of the most alternative TV channels that we have, 4 or 5 years ago, even though I have seen a LOT of youtube videos from past wrestling, most specifically from 1990 on (since I could say that I have 2 favourite wrestlers, one of them being the Undertaker).

My point is this. The IWC will always prefer the heel over the face, blindly, and magically, most of the times disregarding the actual value of the wrestler. And while I think that doesn't make sense, I can't do much to change it, and I can't help feeling this kind of discussions about face and heel turns just seems to me like saying the same thing over and over again.
Also makes me think, what kind of society do we live in, that people get behind bad actions, and tell the good guy to f*** off. But that would be a discussion for another kind of forum.

And (finally) answering to the actual post, Sheamus saving Cena seemed awkward because it didn't have any setup other than him having an axe to grind with Henry. I'm sure that if the tag match had been already announced before that happened, it wouldn't seem so odd. Personally, I'm loving this face Sheamus, he's a mark-worthy guy.

Murphdogg4
09-16-2011, 01:55 PM
Some on the IWC only like a wrestler when he's in the mid card and they can bitch about him needing a push..when he actually get's the push they turn on him. There are also members of the IWC that have a "I'm not like other people in the IWC" attitude and they tend to tow the WWE company line and overly defent guys like Cena and nit pick guys like Punk. For the most part though your average IWC fan has a more sophisticated taste in wrestling, and most of us love Punk. I've followed him since his ROH days and have always been a fan of his.

machoo mann
09-16-2011, 02:24 PM
Its not that CM Punk has gotten stale or anything but the whole Pipe-bomb thing and using IWC terms are kinda getting old to some people.

this. unfortunately when you use the same things over and over again it slowly loses it's meaning..for example cursing and The Attitude Era, nowadays when you hear couple of cursewords here and there it feels kind of refreshing because of the PG-product. I believe that the ripping of the shootstyled promos and "pipebombs" is the creative squad trying to squeeze every bit they can from this massive respond Punk has got last few months. It's getting stale no doubt but maybe Punk is going heel again? Those promos have changed from "voice of the voiceless" to "memememememememe" so I believe Punk is playing his own puppet show here.

LuckIsForLosers
09-16-2011, 02:25 PM
Good points here.

Tag, agree 100%, like what I said about Randy has already been said in your blog and I think most people fall into that belief. I think at times face or heel actually NEEDS to be changed and that certain wrestlers ARE different with the transition. Mark Henry the face, coming out, grinning and then jobbing was boring - as a heel I like him more, it plays to his gimmick better. R-Truth as a face was something of a joke, a bad one perhaps, but a joke still. Now he's funny for all age groups. But I DO agree - Sheamus, Orton and quite a few more.

Midian, that's a great point.

Murphdogg, likewise. All these are good points, I think it's just a subconscious thing and leads to the obvious conclusion that a lot of the IWC fall into these traps.

LuckIsForLosers
09-16-2011, 02:34 PM
this. unfortunately when you use the same things over and over again it slowly loses it's meaning..for example cursing and The Attitude Era, nowadays when you hear couple of cursewords here and there it feels kind of refreshing because of the PG-product. I believe that the ripping of the shootstyled promos and "pipebombs" is the creative squad trying to squeeze every bit they can from this massive respond Punk has got last few months. It's getting stale no doubt but maybe Punk is going heel again? Those promos have changed from "voice of the voiceless" to "memememememememe" so I believe Punk is playing his own puppet show here.


Very interesting...that could be true. I hope not because that would mean that creative's attitude is "Punk has a buzz off his 'shoot' promo, let's rinse it dry and make the most out of it till people get sick", which seems to be happening in some cases. With that I'd say it ISN'T down to Punk - the man clearly has in-ring and mic talents. If they let him input more, perhaps it'd be even more real.

On the other hand, maybe we're wrong - "pipebomb" - is this any different to "the champ is here", "hall of pain", "one more shot?", "awesome" etc - every wrestler needs a "catchphrase" or "slogan" , and maybe that's Punk's. His character is "tell it like it is" and, considering creative do this, maybe he's making it as "real" is it CAN be.

Murphdogg4
09-16-2011, 03:30 PM
Good points here.

Tag, agree 100%, like what I said about Randy has already been said in your blog and I think most people fall into that belief. I think at times face or heel actually NEEDS to be changed and that certain wrestlers ARE different with the transition. Mark Henry the face, coming out, grinning and then jobbing was boring - as a heel I like him more, it plays to his gimmick better. R-Truth as a face was something of a joke, a bad one perhaps, but a joke still. Now he's funny for all age groups. But I DO agree - Sheamus, Orton and quite a few more.

Midian, that's a great point.

Murphdogg, likewise. All these are good points, I think it's just a subconscious thing and leads to the obvious conclusion that a lot of the IWC fall into these traps.

all I know is I have something that keeps me interested in watching RAW for the first time in a long long time.

the wrestling shade
09-16-2011, 03:40 PM
Really IWC sick of Punk? I didn't know that =/
The IWC ( if there is such thing) always bury wrestlers no matter who those wrestlers are for example the other day CM PUNK was in fued with Cena and the IWC was all behind him but now because that fued is over and this one with triple H isnt as big as that one, the IWC has started to dislike punk wait a couple of months and they will start complaining about his music

LuckIsForLosers
09-17-2011, 04:49 AM
I'm a fan of Punk's work but I hate when CM Punk ban-wagoners try to overrate him, giving him credit like how he is "changing" the wrestling business with one shoot (He wasn't the first by the way) and give him too much credit for what hes doing in the WWE. CM Punk really has been enjoyable to watch but come on, he has his flaws just like any other wrestler and if one was to point them out, the IWC would use the excuse of "The IWC are always bitching to bitch!" or "You should be happy that CM Punk is changing the WWE!". CM Punk isn't perfect nor any other wrestler that we claim to be the best in the world. People need to accept that and stop jumping on the bandwagon.

Interesting...as you say all wrestlers have their flaws. A great wrestler needs to tick ALL boxes, a few of these boxes being the ability to entertain, mic skills, in=ring ability. There are few wrestlers who have the total package. For me, Chris Jericho is a top example. Perhaps Punk isn't the "best in the world". I personally think he COULD be the best active wrestler performing today in WWE, dare I say the world - I don't watch ROH or Chikara, or any Mexican or Japanese promotions, so this may come across as ignorant or ill-informed, but considering Punk is performing in front of a HUGE crowd of demanding and DIFFERENT (in terms of expectations) fans, I'd say he is doing a pretty great job performing. I say COULD as of course he is not wrestling every week.

But yeah, Punk does have his flaws, as does everyone else, I agree with you on that. But I disagree with your statement of "Punk is changing the WWE" not being a valid counterpoint against the Punk is the best right now argument. Because, my opinion of course, Punk IS changing the WWE, or pushing the boundaries, as much as it can be done. Like every WWE main event wrestler, he has tremendous restrictions on what he can do, wrestle and say, and he is making a GREAT go of it. For once, we have unpredictable finishes, be they promos or matches, and something that is different and entertaining, rather than the show closing with John Cena and Bret Hart posing after having destroyed The Miz and R-Truth.

LuckIsForLosers
09-17-2011, 04:53 AM
I must say though, some of the points that have been stated on this thread do make sense to me. Punk becoming "face" (I guess he's closer to face than heel at the moment), Punk now becoming "mainstream" and a shirt-seller and Punk no longer being the IWC's flavour of the month must be SOME of the reasons why SOME of the IWC have gone off him, which I think are not valid reasons. Those that say Punk isn't wrestling enough, or is getting stale, well, even though this is through no fault of his own, these ARE valid gripes.

But this has been a good thread, very informative and interesting.

Y2Jryder
09-17-2011, 06:36 AM
Considering the thread's title is "CM Punk and the IWC" , generally that would mean it's a thread about CM Punk, and with that being the case, again, why read it if this subject bores you? If you thought the "CM Punk" in the thread title meant something other than the wrestler "CM Punk", then I apologise. If you have trouble reading/are vision impaired/have a brain-eye-type disability, then again, I apologise. If you don't understand English, again, I apologise.

But, if you read the thread title "CM Punk and the IWC" and knew that the title ACTUALLY meant that this was a thread about CM Punk, then what is "lame" is you commenting that you don't like CM Punk threads, yet reading the thread and continuing to comment...am I right?



Nope, wrong again (sigh) - I DIDN'T just sign up to make a Punk thread - I plan to make many more threads, some that include CM Punk's name (I'll be sure to message you in the future to let you know so you can "avoid" them), and some that don't. Just thought I'd finish this thread before I make my next.

That understandable enough for you? If not, I'll be happy to explain in plainer terms.

Thanks again for the valuable insight.

welcome to the forums junior

LMPunker
09-17-2011, 07:21 AM
people just love to complain about things that are big or popular because people want to stand out with their opinions now the popular opinion is to that punk is the best wwe some people realising that their opinions will be drowned out suddenly flip and say hes just repeating himself and so on and forth

Enforcer23
09-17-2011, 07:25 AM
very simple no matter what your doing how great you are some people just wont like you

HATERS GONNA HATE simple as that

Dameduse823
09-17-2011, 12:30 PM
So did Punk not meet expectations for you Dameduse? Or did Creative not meet expectations for you?

Punk is a great talent, his in ring work CAN be second to none if they let him, his 'pipe bomb' promos were entertaining before he left for a week and then came back. To me I thing the biggest disappointment was that WWE rushed his return so much that it just made all his talk seem stupid and the fact that he's hardly been in the ring since makes it seem like they've made him one of those guys that all talk

LuckIsForLosers
09-17-2011, 12:58 PM
DUBS - a very good point. A lot of people have fixed opinions or opinions influenced by trying to look different, original or "right" - unfortunately, when an opinion of a talent is made based on this, it leads to irrational conclusions such as "Cena sucks", "Cena is the hardest working guy in the industry", "Punk is the best thing since Austin" etc etc...I have stated my opinion on Punk and have tried to back it up by facts - the opinion is made up of what I see him do week in week out. The fact that you have an opinion that you have clearly backed up with facts means I can respect it - you make good points. I'm a Punk fan - as for Punk changing the WWE, well, you're right DUBS, let's see where the WWE is in 6 months time before we say he's changed anything BUT his character. Thanks for the welcome btw!

Dameduse - I agree to an extent, and strongly agree on the rushed return. If they had waited for months, then the contract expiring thing could've seemed more realistic an angle. Say in 3 months from now we have a new kayfabe "COO" and the Raw GM is revealed - maybe Punk would have come back then with a more emphatic and long term impact. It just doesn't feel right that they build up Punk leaving this much, but then he's back 5 days later. So yes, I agree. Alas, as I said before, I think it's because rather than seeing Punk's talent, creative see him as a big, ripe, Florida orange - something that is great quality, but something that they can squeeze EVERYTHING out of in the short-term to make.....FRESH ORANGE JUICE! Punk winning the title and doing promos up to Summerslam was the orange juice, we drunk the orange juice, and since Del Rio cashed in, we finished the orange juice - at least, some people may think that ;)...feel free to ask what the f*ck I'm talking about/if I'm high.

Kashdinero
12-31-2011, 05:17 AM
CM Punk begins cutting "insider" promos and half the audience is confused.

The ratings dip.

Coincidence?

The Brown One
12-31-2011, 07:02 AM
CM Punk begins cutting "insider" promos and half the audience is confused.

The ratings dip.

Coincidence?

You could be onto something there. But that's not the whole truth why ratings dipped.

Kashdinero
12-31-2011, 07:28 AM
You could be onto something there. But that's not the whole truth why ratings dipped.

Absolutely. Nothing is ever as cut and dried as one thing, but, for as cool as I think CM Punk is, there MUST be thousands of people out there who hate the grubby looking dude with the beard, and haven't got a clue what he's talking about. Insider talk rarely works on the bigger scale of things in wrestling, and is in no way a ratings winner. It gets a huge buzz from those that are "in the know", but to the casual mark on the street (which is who they really need to concentrate on right now) it's not exactly the stuff that will keep them entertained.

Don't get me wrong, I love this CM Punk era, and couldn't really care less about the ratings. I'm just enjoying it while it lasts.

Murphdogg4
12-31-2011, 01:28 PM
I'm not sick of him, but I do feel like WWE is giving him crappy story lines for some reason.

Cabers
12-31-2011, 03:16 PM
Yea another CM Punk thread. To steal a line from The miz AWESOMMMMME.

Androo
12-31-2011, 04:51 PM
Absolutely. Nothing is ever as cut and dried as one thing, but, for as cool as I think CM Punk is, there MUST be thousands of people out there who hate the grubby looking dude with the beard, and haven't got a clue what he's talking about. Insider talk rarely works on the bigger scale of things in wrestling, and is in no way a ratings winner. It gets a huge buzz from those that are "in the know", but to the casual mark on the street (which is who they really need to concentrate on right now) it's not exactly the stuff that will keep them entertained.

Don't get me wrong, I love this CM Punk era, and couldn't really care less about the ratings. I'm just enjoying it while it lasts.

For sure Kash. Plus, it's the bloody 'burial era'! Everyone has to inanely point out flaws in everyone's abilities, persona, etc, etc, "you can't work with him", "there's only one guy in the back that can go in the ring with me", etc. I mean, what does that achieve? Apart completely demoralizing all the other guys in the back, and pointing out to the viewers that, 'yeah, you should only care about these two guys'! Eh, ever wondered how they can't make any new stars! Fuck. That does absolutely nothing but hinder everything!

I'm sure you've been reading the most recent Power Slam's, where they've been talking about it, Kash. So true, and it grinds my gears.

Kashdinero
12-31-2011, 05:44 PM
For sure Kash. Plus, it's the bloody 'burial era'! Everyone has to inanely point out flaws in everyone's abilities, persona, etc, etc, "you can't work with him", "there's only one guy in the back that can go in the ring with me", etc. I mean, what does that achieve? Apart completely demoralizing all the other guys in the back, and pointing out to the viewers that, 'yeah, you should only care about these two guys'! Eh, ever wondered how they can't make any new stars! Fuck. That does absolutely nothing but hinder everything!

I'm sure you've been reading the most recent Power Slam's, where they've been talking about it, Kash. So true, and it grinds my gears.

"The Burial Era"

^Just how fucking horrible is it to be a mediocre heel during this period?

Paul Heyman must be disgusted with CM Punk right now... This era is, like, the complete fucking opposite of "accenuating strengths and hiding weaknesses."

It wouldn't be so bad if there was talent to spare, but right now there isn't, and if this is CM Punks idea of change, then I'm really sorry to say, but, I really don't think he gives a shit about change for the company, and is all about number one.

If held at gun point and given a choice, I'd rather see CM Punk in this role over "Johnny Chuckles" but, man, Punk actually has the ability to make others look great, and, yeah, it fucking grinds my gears, too, 'droo, to see one of my long time faves acting like a clueless mug.... I hope their paying him well.

Edit: PowerSlam ftw... Fin Martin>Bill Apter and Dave Meltzer combined.