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View Full Version : The Fix Is In - What Do YOU Think?



lostbot101
03-12-2011, 12:45 AM
Since it's been brought up - who believes that some MMA fights are fixed? I'm not convinced personally but since I am no all seeing all knowing super guru (like Wallyman :rolleyes:) I am open to debate this issue.

(I'm moving some pre-existing comments here)

If so - which fights? Please include your own reasoning as to why you believe what you do.








What is it with this video?

I was on youtube a few months back. I was watching some old wrestling clips as I always do.
and they had these mma guys on there bashing wrestling and me as a fan .I didn't like that.
I am also training to be a wrestler. and I can't stand when people say it isn't real. because I know better
so anyway they were telling me how wrestling wasn't a real sport. so I just edited this video to mess with them a little
it's a joke people should learn to lighten up....even know I do beileve many mma fights are fixed now days.

SilverGhost
03-12-2011, 01:03 AM
I was on youtube a few months back. I was watching some old wrestling clips as I always do.
and they had these mma guys on there bashing wrestling and me as a fan .I didn't like that.
I am also training to be a wrestler. and I can't stand when people say it isn't real. because I know better
so anyway they were telling me how wrestling wasn't a real sport. so I just edited this video to mess with them a little
it's a joke people should learn to lighten up....even know I do beileve many mma fights are fixed now days.

I would say ONLY ONE fight was fixed but the rest are decisive KOs. Stupidity goes to the judges.

Robstar
03-12-2011, 02:21 AM
I would say ONLY ONE fight was fixed but the rest are decisive KOs. Stupidity goes to the judges.

Oh we're not still going on about the Brock fight being fixed are we? What would be the point? If there are any fixes going on, it's only in bouts that go to decision - but I am a total non-believer about this anyway.

Lostbot, people are going to talk shit. If you are training to compete at any level, you wanna be a bit more thickskinned about what people are saying otherwise, you're a shot duck straight out of the gate.

SilverGhost
03-12-2011, 02:32 AM
Oh we're not still going on about the Brock fight being fixed are we? What would be the point? If there are any fixes going on, it's only in bouts that go to decision - but I am a total non-believer about this anyway.

Lostbot, people are going to talk shit. If you are training to compete at any level, you wanna be a bit more thickskinned about what people are saying otherwise, you're a shot duck straight out of the gate.

Lol yes Rob but thats what I think personally on that one fight. Other fights are decisive.

TheMadThinker
03-12-2011, 02:39 AM
Lol yes Rob but thats what I think personally on that one fight. Other fights are decisive.

You think that fight was fixed?

SilverGhost
03-12-2011, 02:49 AM
You think that fight was fixed?

Just that one fight. Its like a feeling.....Brock vs Cain. To me, it smelled fishy but I'll talk to Rob again for that one.

TheMadThinker
03-12-2011, 02:55 AM
Just that one fight. Its like a feeling.....Brock vs Cain. To me, it smelled fishy but I'll talk to Rob again for that one.

Shane Carwin destroyed Brock the same way, but ran out of gas in the 2nd round and got choked out. This is probably a discussion for another thread.

lostbot101
03-12-2011, 03:13 AM
Oh we're not still going on about the Brock fight being fixed are we? What would be the point? If there are any fixes going on, it's only in bouts that go to decision - but I am a total non-believer about this anyway.

Lostbot, people are going to talk shit. If you are training to compete at any level, you wanna be a bit more thickskinned about what people are saying otherwise, you're a shot duck straight out of the gate.

Well I do beileve that the brock fight was fixed.but there has been many fights
in mma that has been fixed and lot of fighter have been coming in boxing and mma
talking about how they faked a nock out. over the past few years

Quinton rampage Jackson ________________________________________

The UFC treats me better than Pride. I don't know what their [PRIDE] problem was but they wouldn't promote me at all, they cheated me out of money from dolls and t-shirts, not paying me... when my contract was up and we were negotiating and I wanted more money and they were telling me ‘oh, but you're a nobody.' This was after I had fought in the Grand Prix and beat Igor Vovchanchyn. Even after I went to that K-1 fight and represented them in K-1, they were mad I won that K-1 fight! Just stuff like that... Igor Vovchanchyn, I got two weeks notice [for the fight]. Ninja, two weeks notice. It was bad. The tournaments were fixed. They said they drew numbers from a hat. It was all set up for Wanderlei to win. It was really bad. Even in some fights they would stand you up when you were winning, different stuff like that."______________________________________________
http://www.mmamania.com/2010/3/11/1368998/quinton-rampage-jackson-pride-fc
and theres a hell of alot more then this out there just look it up for yourself.

SilverGhost
03-12-2011, 03:19 AM
Rob my reasons are different than his^^

Robstar
03-12-2011, 03:44 AM
Since it's been brought up - who believes that some MMA fights are fixed? I'm not convinced personally but since I am no all seeing all knowing super guru (like Wallyman :rolleyes:) I am open to debate this issue.

(I'm moving some pre-existing comments here)

If so - which fights? Please include your own reasoning as to why you believe what you do.

Rich Cranium
03-12-2011, 09:52 AM
You guys are crazy to think the Lesnar/Cain fight was fixed! Cain was the better man that night, plain and simple! MadThinker has a good point. If Lesnar could have survived the slaughter of rd 1, this discussion would be null and void. I don't believe decisions are fixed either. I just think the judges that are hired don't know crap about how to score an MMA fight precisely. If anything gets 'fixed', it would be a fighter in need of the payday plus a nice bonus from the fixer. Perhaps he could tap out when he really doesn't need to or take a feint punch. /end rant

SilverGhost
03-12-2011, 10:59 AM
I don't know.....just the whole thing was favored heavily on Cain. I can't really put it in words but it seemed that he was going to win anyway.

Thats just me and not really valid reasons but its more of a feeling.

Robstar
03-12-2011, 05:34 PM
That's cool, I appreciate a feeling. :D

I just can't fathom for what reasons though. To have a first Mexican champ? Woulda happened eventually anyway. To build hype for a rematch? Would mean the Dos Santos/Lesnar fight to be for show too. To get Brock onto The Ultimate Fighter? Could have done that regardless. To make more money? I am not sure UFC could be making more money at the moment! In fact I think the mint is bringing out a $5,000,000 note with Dana's face on it! ;)

lostbot101
03-13-2011, 01:56 AM
sorry it's not real fighting. in a real fight you can do anything to winn you can't do that in mma now can you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwLC5gjYYXc because there are rules.
and if you don't want to hear wrestling talking about mma. why are you on a wrestling website? I'm not saying that to be mean I am just asking

THEKEVINBRAND
03-13-2011, 02:48 AM
sorry it's not real fighting. in a real fight you can do anything to winn you can't do that in mma now can you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwLC5gjYYXc because there are rules.
and if you don't want to hear wrestling talking about mma. why are you on a wrestling website? I'm not saying that to be mean I am just asking

wtf? the fights aren't pre-determined and the rules are basic in UFC and they're basically the same and have to set these according to the state's athletic commission.

Weight classes:
Bantamweightover 125 lbs. to 135 lbs.
Featherweightover 135 lbs. to 145 lbs.
Lightweightover 145 lbs. to 155 lbs.
Welterweightover 155 lbs. to 170 lbs.
Middleweightover 170 lbs. to 185 lbs.
Light Heavyweightover 185 lbs. to 205 lbs.
Heavyweightover 205 lbs. to 265 lbs.
Bout duration:
All non-championship bouts shall be three rounds.
All championship bouts shall be five rounds.
Rounds will be five minutes in duration.
A one-minute rest period will occur between each round.
Fouls:
1.Butting with the head.
2.Eye gouging of any kind.
3.Biting.
4.Hair pulling.
5.Fish hooking.
6.Groin attacks of any kind.
7.Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8.Small joint manipulation.
9.Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10.Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11.Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12.Clawing, pinching or twisting of the flesh.
13.Grabbing the clavicle.
14.Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15.Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
16.Stomping a grounded opponent.
17.Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
18.Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
19.Throwing an opponent out of the ring or fenced area.
20.Holding the shorts or gloves of an opponent
21.Spitting at an opponent.
22.Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes injury to an opponent.
23.Holding the ropes or the fence.
24.Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area.
25.Attacking an opponent on or during the break.
26.Attacking an opponent who is under the care of the referee.
27.Attacking an opponent after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.
28.Flagrantly disregarding the instructions of the referee.
29.Timidity, including, but without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently dropping the mouthpiece or faking an injury.
30.Interference by the corner.
31.Throwing in the towel during competition.
Ways to Win:
1.Submission by:
Physical tap out.
Verbal tap out.
2.Technical knockout by the referee stopping the contest.
3.Decision via scorecards, including:
Unanimous decision:All judges pick the same fighter as the winner.
Split decision:One judge picks one fighter, the other two judges pick the other fighter.
Majority decision:Two of the three judges pick the same fighter as the winner, the final judge says the fight was a draw.
Draw:Unanimous draw.
Majority draw.
Split draw.
4.Technical decision.
5.Technical draw.
6.Disqualification
7.Forfeit.
8.No contest.
Referee may restart the round:
If the fighters reach a stalemate and do not work to improve position or finish.

Bodom
03-13-2011, 11:43 AM
Did I read that right? Having rules means the fights are pre-determined and fixed? You've officially lost all credibility.

lostbot101
03-13-2011, 12:28 PM
Did I read that right? Having rules means the fights are pre-determined and fixed? You've officially lost all credibility.

I never said it was pre-determined fights. what I was saying is because of rules there is to many things that you can't do order to call it a real fight. it you got in a fight on the street
there is no weight class. are rules and you can do all of these things.1.Butting with the head.
2.Eye gouging of any kind.
3.Biting.
4.Hair pulling.
5.Fish hooking.
6.Groin attacks of any kind.
7.Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
8.Small joint manipulation.
9.Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
10.Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
11.Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.
12.Clawing, pinching or twisting of the flesh.
13.Grabbing the clavicle.
14.Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
15.Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.

in a real fight and under stand me I'm not say that in the ufc is not real punchs. and hits or even determined fights .that why I showed that video about bruce lee. many guys that new him said he wouldn't be able to make it in mma because he was a real fighter that would do what ever it took to winn. and you can't do that in mma/ufc now can you? because of rules

lostbot101
03-13-2011, 12:58 PM
Bruce Lee was what many call the father of mixed martial arts and was a bad mothaf*r! He was also a movie star that acted in 'scripted' fights on the set. See the word scripted? Now you, you are on a timeout![/QUOTE]

I don't know if you know anything about bruce lee but he was in many real fights in his life. that go way beyond movies. he even said once that he like real fights better then .play fighting in the movies and the reason he said was because you can't be cocky in a real fight

Rich Cranium
03-13-2011, 01:08 PM
I don't know if you know anything about bruce lee but he was in many real fights in his life. that go way beyond movies. he even said once that he like real fights better then .play fighting in the movies and the reason he said was because you can't be cocky in a real fight

I know about Lee and that he was often challenged to a real fight even on the set. I also know that he had to really fight off some guys that were sent to teach him a lesson because he was not supposed to teach his style to Americans but he defeated all takers! I was simply making a point that he had to 'pull his punches' while shooting scenes for his movies!

Now, if you think MMA isn't real then go get in the cage and those guys will be more than happy to give you a demonstration a lot worse than Dr. Shultz would!

SilverGhost
03-13-2011, 01:09 PM
I don't see how having alot of rules for a fight doesn't make it a fight.

What? You expect guys just swinging?

Also there is a world of difference in MMA fights and street fights. The key is safety. Sure they are putting their health on the line for our entertainment but its fights that are decisive. The rules are there for their safety.

thejman93
03-13-2011, 01:13 PM
I don't see how having alot of rules for a fight doesn't make it a fight.

What? You expect guys just swinging?

Also there is a world of difference in MMA fights and street fights. The key is safety. Sure they are putting their health on the line for our entertainment but its fights that are decisive. The rules are there for their safety.

This. If there weren't rules then there wouldn't be MMA because the sport would be banned for being too violent.

Rich Cranium
03-13-2011, 01:16 PM
This. If there weren't rules then there wouldn't be MMA because the sport would be banned for being too violent.

In the beginning there were few rules and they couldn't get a sanctioned fight hardly anywhere as it was banned in so many states. John McCain wanted to shut it down so they got smart and started adding rules. Note: This was pre Dana and company.

thejman93
03-13-2011, 01:20 PM
In the beginning there were few rules and they couldn't get a sanctioned fight hardly anywhere as it was banned in so many states. John McCain wanted to shut it down so they got smart and started adding rules. Note: This was pre Dana and company.

Right, the sport almost got shut down because it was percieved (and rightly so) as "human cockfighting."

Bodom
03-13-2011, 02:10 PM
Right, the sport almost got shut down because it was percieved (and rightly so) as "human cockfighting."

*snicker* fhdjfhjsfhjksa

lostbot101
03-13-2011, 02:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s667TW4S_o

maybe this video can explain it better then I can

lostbot101
03-13-2011, 03:26 PM
for you guys that don't beileve that mma can be fixed are staged you need to do some research....
all sports can be fixed and staged...At least one positive about Gentry’s aforementioned book is its willingness to dish out completely unverified backstage dirt from the early days of the UFC. Case in point: Mark Hall’s claim that Don Frye and manager Robert DePersia came into his dressing room during the Ultimate Ultimate ’96 tournament and convinced him to throw the two fighters’ upcoming semifinal match. Hall says that since Tank Abbott had already advanced to the final after two relatively easy wins, Frye – who’d logged almost 17 minutes of cage time already that night – wanted to save his energy for the championship.

Because he’d already suffered two defeats to Frye earlier in his career (and therefore probably wasn’t going to win anyway) and DePersia (who apparently had some kind of stroke in the UFC at the time) implied that saying no would have a disastrous impact on his future, Hall says he reluctantly agreed to go along with the plot.

That’s the unsubstantiated part. What we do know for sure is that it took Frye all of 20 seconds to tap Hall out with an Achilles lock that night. As it turned out, Frye did indeed need all the help he could get to beat Tank in the final. He pretty much got the tar beat out of him for the first minute of the fight, before Abbott slipped and fell down, allowing Frye to take his back and lock in a choke to become Ultimate Ultimate ’96 champion.
================================================== ===============Pancrase works: - The Pancrase organiztion admitted that there had been some worked fights early on, but did not say how many or which ones. Fights that most people agree were works are Shamrock-Hume, Shamrock-Suzuki 2, and Suzuki-Funaki. A number of others are suspected. Bas Rutten claims that he never participated in a work in Pancrase.
================================================== =====
admit
In my third PRIDE fight I got 250 000$ to lose against MAurice Smith, and for return I would get a fight with Rickson Gracie. That was my wish. With that fixed fight Cikatić - Smitha PRIDE wanted tu humiliate K-1!

Branko Cikatić in an interview

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Coleman said in an interview, "It was what it was. I needed to support my family. They guaranteed me another fight after that and I needed that security. It was what it was. I'm going to leave it at that
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------road to Quinton rampage Jackson ________________________________________

The UFC treats me better than Pride. I don't know what their [PRIDE] problem was but they wouldn't promote me at all, they cheated me out of money from dolls and t-shirts, not paying me... when my contract was up and we were negotiating and I wanted more money and they were telling me ‘oh, but you're a nobody.' This was after I had fought in the Grand Prix and beat Igor Vovchanchyn. Even after I went to that K-1 fight and represented them in K-1, they were mad I won that K-1 fight! Just stuff like that... Igor Vovchanchyn, I got two weeks notice [for the fight]. Ninja, two weeks notice. It was bad. The tournaments were fixed. They said they drew numbers from a hat. It was all set up for Wanderlei to win. It was really bad. Even in some fights they would stand you up when you were winning, different stuff like that."____________________________________________ __
http://www.mmamania.com/2010/3/11/13...ckson-pride-fc
and theres a hell of alot more then this out there just look it up for yourself
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

BOXING
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______
MIAMI (AP) -- More than 30 prizefights have been fixed or tainted with fraud in the past 12 years, according to The Miami Herald.
The admissions come from boxers who fought and lost to George Foreman, Eric "Butterbean" Esch and other ranked fighters. Some negotiated payments to throw matches. Others weren't bribed but fell down merely to avoid injury and get an easy paycheck.
Tony Fulilangi, once a world-ranked heavyweight, told The Miami Herald that he faked a second-round knockout by George Foreman on Oct. 27, 1998, in Marshall, Texas.
Fulilangi, who received $30,000 to fight Foreman, said nobody asked him to throw the bout. The fight ended when Fulilangi ducked under a punch and hit the canvas. "I went down just to get the money," he said. "I went to the airport with a smile on my face."
Foreman laughed when told of Fulilangi's comments. "That happened to me all the time," Foreman said. "If they're getting a whipping, it's up to them to decide if they want to continue."
Former heavyweight Andre Smiley said he made thousands of dollars faking 14 knockouts from 1990 to 1997. "I made a lot of money throwing fights," he said.
Widely suspected but rarely documented, fake fights threaten the credibility of professional boxing. Some fighters say the sport is plagued with corruption far worse than alleged criminal misconduct now under FBI scrutiny.
"The fix goes to the issue of integrity and trust in the game," said U.S. Rep. Mike Oxley, R-Ohio, who has sponsored a boxing reform bill aimed at protecting young fighters from unscrupulous promoters. "Nothing could be more American than believing in a fair fight. And if that is not happening, the public has every right to lose faith in the sport."
The Herald reported that boxers said many fraudulent matches were arranged by promoters or matchmakers intent on improving a fighter's record and ranking to earn big-money title fights. Fraudulent fights helped Esch boost his earnings from $600 a bout as a little-known club fighter to $60,000 as a star attraction, according to two opponents and two boxing commissioners.
According to sworn statements and interviews The Herald did with more than 60 fighters, promoters, trainers, managers, matchmakers and commissioners:
• Two former heavyweights, Smiley and Mike Smith, said they threw fights at the behest of Sean Gibbons, a matchmaker with Top Rank Inc. "A complete lie," Gibbons responded.
• Two other men said they helped fix matches for the late promoter Rick Parker. Former heavyweight Tim Murphy said he conspired with Parker to throw a 1991 fight with former NFL star Mark Gastineau. Boxer-turned-matchmaker Sonny Barch said that under instructions from Parker, he bought 10 or 11 victories for Florida heavyweight Mitch Sammons in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Sammons didn't comment.
• Little-known heavyweight James Calvin Baker said he threw four fights, including bouts against Esch and former world light heavyweight champion Iran Barkley. Esch and Barkley said they have no knowledge of opponents throwing fights.
• Two other Esch opponents, Richard Davis and Bill Duncan, have been suspended by state commissions for taking dives.
A New Jersey grand jury is examining allegations that the International Boxing Federation extorted money from fighters and promoters in exchange for elite rankings. In June, federal agents raided the Deerfield Beach headquarters of promoter Don King, seeking evidence that might link him with alleged kickbacks to the federation.
The FBI investigation does not center on fighters paid to throw matches

Rich Cranium
03-13-2011, 04:02 PM
I don't have a clue what I am talking about so do you guys think I should stop posting nonsense?

Greatest idea ever!

lostbot101
03-13-2011, 04:19 PM
Greatest idea ever!

I think your the one with out a clue Rich.there fighter here saying they were paid to lose matchs . and you guys are saying a match can't be staged. just because it's mma . that just
nuts.

Robstar
03-13-2011, 06:03 PM
Hang on - show me exactly where any of us suggested that a fight can't, wouldn't or has never been staged? Where? Go on, quote me for it? Where did I or anyone else say it?

My question was about modern day UFC, primarily. And none of what you quoted referred to that. That old UFC was a different company and a complete mess before Dana & co took over. You need to get that bug out of your ass

THEKEVINBRAND
03-15-2011, 03:29 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siRCmp8BVI0

maybe this video will help you out

you're the one living in a cave for saying that MMA is fake and so's that video

Rich Cranium
03-15-2011, 10:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siRCmp8BVI0
maybe this video will help you out

This vid is starting to feel like spam!

thejman93
03-15-2011, 01:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siRCmp8BVI0
maybe this video will help you out

http://wizard.gamebanana.com/img/ico/sprays/blahbyfblows.jpg

el gabo
03-15-2011, 02:35 PM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdcUXTOoMIKonNGfmG7XPGTyMwu9UHS 8caeIZowqZuPpcEsCiT

The real question here is who is gonna do it?
My pick is Rob.

Rich Cranium
03-15-2011, 02:41 PM
Yeah, he would be the one that reads the MMA threads!

http://isnoop.net/sa/banhammer.jpg

thejman93
03-15-2011, 02:42 PM
I'll go Rob 'cause he's big into MMA.

Robstar
03-15-2011, 04:08 PM
Yes, I'll say me because if I see it just ONCE more I am swinging the hammer

lostbot101
03-15-2011, 05:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siRCmp8BVI0
Yes, I'll say me because if I see it just ONCE more I am swinging the hammer

you can swing that fucking hammer all you want pal.
all you and the rest of your little gay mma mark butt buddys.set your fat ass behind a computer and
and act like if you banded me that it's some big thing. you guys need to get a fucking life.beyond this website.why in the hell would I care if I was banned from a mark site.let's face it out of all of the wrestling sites I go to ewrestling is about the wrost.you guys can't report news to save your life.
you can swing that fucking hammer all you want pal.
this video to all of you sorry son of a lazy siting on your pc can't get up from your chair bitchs

SilverGhost
03-15-2011, 05:44 PM
If you stepped in a ring against an MMA guy, then your own opinion would be valid. But spamming a "Brock saying MMA is fake video" doesn't count as credible facts of MMA being fake.

http://www.mma4life.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/joe_stevenson_bloody_mess-300x241.jpg

I doubt Joe Stevenson blades.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/slideshows/961/slideshow_96162/display_image.jpg

Oh yeah THIS didn't happen.

el gabo
03-15-2011, 07:59 PM
Swing away

http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww149/ilovethelakings/Favorite%20Pics/TheBanHammer.jpg

lostbot101
03-15-2011, 09:26 PM
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8122/sidinjury.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/i/sidinjury.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
in wrestling people get hurt all of the time!
__________________________________________

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/4381/ricflairbloodywithworld.jpg (http://img576.imageshack.us/i/ricflairbloodywithworld.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
How do you know that Joe Stevenson dosen't blade you don't. look at ric his face looks a hell of alot worse than Joes and we all know it's not that bad.._____________________________________________ ___________

Like I said befor just just because a sport is staged dosen't mean you can't be hurt for real.
do you know that pro wrestling is staged and people get hurt there all the time. and I do know
well what I'm talking about my brother was trained in mma. and we both were trained in wrestling. I know alot of wrestler and mma fighters.and
I have also been to and mma shcool myself. it would be easy to staged a mma fight. have you ever heard of pride just about any mma fan will tell pride was never about fighting and many many of there fights were fixed. and that's fact

SilverGhost
03-15-2011, 09:35 PM
I highly doubt fighters blade.

Of course I know wrestling is scripted and I know that they can get hurt.

I may not know much of Pride fighting but I do know this: We live in a world that wants different kinds of entertainment. Mine happens to be Japanese wrestling since its better than the stuff WWE puts on and TNA combined. I appreciate their hardwork. MMA guys train hard for the fights. That much you can't really take away from.

This whole "MMA is fake" thing that you bring up doesn't really help your situation. You would need real concrete evidence. More from the state athletic commission. They would tell you.

My take: sure some fights may have back door dealings but I do know that the beat down the fighters put in the octagon and ring are real than you think.