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2bluntsup
02-04-2011, 10:10 PM
Typical IWC. Always complaining about someone else's push when the guy they used to support finally breaks through

Agreed!!!! More times than usual when a popular wrestler on the IWC fav's list finally get the holy grail, the proper camrea time, and main event status they turn on them like randy orton and the miz of the top of the dome. fucking marks!!!!!thoughts???

2bluntsup
02-04-2011, 10:12 PM
Also I'd hate to see what the IWC has to say about Daniel Bryan if/when he becomes a prominent champion???

WWTNA Mark
02-04-2011, 10:29 PM
It true tbh. I remember people doing the samething with John Cena. Cena was over with the fans in 04-05 but then, when he won the WWE championship, people complained saying that he can't wrestle and that he was a mid-carder at best. People still say it to this very day. Goes to show you that the IWC can be confusing most of the times. I'm just waiting for people to complain about Del Rio winning the Royal Rumble! Oh wait........

Lance Storm
02-05-2011, 12:04 AM
It true tbh. I remember people doing the samething with John Cena. Cena was over with the fans in 04-05 but then, when he won the WWE championship, people complained saying that he can't wrestle and that he was a mid-carder at best. People still say it to this very day. Goes to show you that the IWC can be confusing most of the times. I'm just waiting for people to complain about Del Rio winning the Royal Rumble! Oh wait........

Cena has always sucked.

WWTNA Mark
02-05-2011, 12:46 AM
Cena has always sucked.

Wrestling, ok but as a WWE Superstar, never. Don't really need to tell you how much Cena has carried the company on his shoulders. That would pretty much take a LONG time.

THE_CRIPPLER
02-05-2011, 01:11 AM
Cena has always sucked.

Honestly Cena rarly has a bad match and he is alot more entertaining in the Ring than Randy Orton...... Cena was on a hot streak having great matches with everyone before his last injury now he slowed down a bit but here is proof.

good match with HHH at WM22
Great match with Michaels at WM23
Amazing 1 hour match with HBK on Raw
had a great tripple threat with HBK and Angle
Great match with Batista at WM26
Great match with Edge and HHH in the Triple Threat match after Mania
Great Fatal 4 way with Orton, Edge and HBK
Good match with Umaga at the Royal Rumble

Even carried Lashly and Khali to the best matches and made them beialve main eventers.

Thats not counting the good matches he has every week with Cm Punks, Zigglers and even green talent like Wade Barette....

His persona is cheesy and corny, his interviews are dumb and childish but when he wants to have a serious money making interview he can, he can display alot of emtion on the mic.

If someone can show me a instance where Cena had terrible matches or blew a big Main event feud cause he didnt have the abilty please do.

Is he the greatest in the World? nooo. but he is no where near as bad as he is made out to be on here

Robstar
02-05-2011, 02:41 AM
Absolutely. Orton is the perfect example. Or you could take CM Punk in reverse. People love the bad guy. Back in 05-07, there was still the possiblity that Cena might turn, but now he's Ricky Steamboat. He is never (never say never) going back. At least not until it sells and that's going to be no time soon.

I didn't detect barely a ripple over CM Punk when he was a face - maybe the odd comment on how WWE wasn't utilising him properly - but in general, nada.

To those of you who gamble, who know about the world of chance - who would YOU put your money on? That's right; the favourite. Yet when there's no money to be made, just IWC reputations, well you bluff the fuck out of that one, why don't you?

Just drinking. U TELL???

PandaMassacre
02-05-2011, 03:18 AM
I have been pushing for Alberto Del Rio, John Morrison, Dolph Ziggler, and Ezekiel Jackson to get into the main event scene. An now that they are breaking through I am one of the most happiest campers right now. The Miz was the other guy I was pushing for an when he won the belt I was here marking out with you guys. But then after maybe 6 weeks into it I started hearing people putting him in the same category as Randy Orton an John Cena. It must have something to do with the Cena belt. XD

Automatic
02-05-2011, 03:54 AM
Honestly Cena rarly has a bad match and he is alot more entertaining in the Ring than Randy Orton...... Cena was on a hot streak having great matches with everyone before his last injury now he slowed down a bit but here is proof.

good match with HHH at WM22
Great match with Michaels at WM23
Amazing 1 hour match with HBK on Raw
had a great tripple threat with HBK and Angle
Great match with Batista at WM26
Great match with Edge and HHH in the Triple Threat match after Mania
Great Fatal 4 way with Orton, Edge and HBK
Good match with Umaga at the Royal Rumble

Even carried Lashly and Khali to the best matches and made them beialve main eventers.

Thats not counting the good matches he has every week with Cm Punks, Zigglers and even green talent like Wade Barette....

His persona is cheesy and corny, his interviews are dumb and childish but when he wants to have a serious money making interview he can, he can display alot of emtion on the mic.

If someone can show me a instance where Cena had terrible matches or blew a big Main event feud cause he didnt have the abilty please do.

Is he the greatest in the World? nooo. but he is no where near as bad as he is made out to be on here

You sir, are absolutely right, but the boldest part is the most important, I don't get what people find so good about Orton other than his RKO, who knows what Orton would be without it:O

The Brown One
02-05-2011, 04:07 AM
Honestly Cena rarly has a bad match and he is alot more entertaining in the Ring than Randy Orton...... Cena was on a hot streak having great matches with everyone before his last injury now he slowed down a bit but here is proof.

good match with HHH at WM22
Great match with Michaels at WM23
Amazing 1 hour match with HBK on Raw
had a great tripple threat with HBK and Angle
Great match with Batista at WM26
Great match with Edge and HHH in the Triple Threat match after Mania
Great Fatal 4 way with Orton, Edge and HBK
Good match with Umaga at the Royal Rumble

Even carried Lashly and Khali to the best matches and made them beialve main eventers.

Thats not counting the good matches he has every week with Cm Punks, Zigglers and even green talent like Wade Barette....

His persona is cheesy and corny, his interviews are dumb and childish but when he wants to have a serious money making interview he can, he can display alot of emtion on the mic.

If someone can show me a instance where Cena had terrible matches or blew a big Main event feud cause he didnt have the abilty please do.

Is he the greatest in the World? nooo. but he is no where near as bad as he is made out to be on here

Cena rarely has a bad match? Really? I think that the matches you listed up there are his top matches. Whenever he wrestles on Raw, he does the same routine. Sells and looks beatable for the first 10 minutes, looks tired, and then comes out of nowhere with life, and suddenly manages to hit his 5 moves of doom without even breaking a sweat(hell, he even smiles while doing this sometimes). You get the odd good Cena match, but I've barely ever seen any greats from him. Sure he can put over people sometimes, but in the end he usually ends up on top. I think the best matches he has had were: the one against HBK at WM 23, Ironman match with HBK on Raw, and the match with Umaga(where it took the ropes to beat Umaga).


I have been pushing for Alberto Del Rio, John Morrison, Dolph Ziggler, and Ezekiel Jackson to get into the main event scene. An now that they are breaking through I am one of the most happiest campers right now. The Miz was the other guy I was pushing for an when he won the belt I was here marking out with you guys. But then after maybe 6 weeks into it I started hearing people putting him in the same category as Randy Orton an John Cena. It must have something to do with the Cena belt. XD

I think people genuinely lost faith in the Miz, since he kept on winning his matches by interference. Also, he didn't look strong enough to carry the company's top title. IMO hes actually one of the few guys that looks good with the WWE title, and that's saying alot.

Rated_R(ob)KO
02-05-2011, 04:13 AM
Cena rarely has a bad match? Really? I think that the matches you listed up there are his top matches. Whenever he wrestles on Raw, he does the same routine. Sells and looks beatable for the first 10 minutes, looks tired, and then comes out of nowhere with life, and suddenly manages to hit his 5 moves of doom without even breaking a sweat(hell, he even smiles while doing this sometimes). You get the odd good Cena match, but I've barely ever seen any greats from him. Sure he can put over people sometimes, but in the end he usually ends up on top.

And the difference between Hogan and this is?

PandaMassacre
02-05-2011, 04:18 AM
I think people genuinely lost faith in the Miz, since he kept on winning his matches by interference. Also, he didn't look strong enough to carry the company's top title. IMO hes actually one of the few guys that looks good with the WWE title, and that's saying alot.

That is another reason. The Miz does look good with the title, but they are not making him look credible. Everytime he fights bigger main eventers like he is supposed to be now he squirms just to pull out a victory. An then he feuds with Jerry Lawler who is barely kicking on his last legs. Jerry can still get around very well for an old guy, but he slows down more an more every time he falls on to the mat. That just makes The Miz seem like a cowarding opportunist, and I have a feeling that Michael Cole will get involved to keep Jerry from winning again.

THE_CRIPPLER
02-05-2011, 04:25 AM
And the difference between Hogan and this is?

cause Cena actually doesnt have bad matches..... Hogan had good matches with Savage (who carried him and had amazing build for the match) and he had a really good one with the Warrior which was booking, heat, moment and miricle that made it good..... other than that in Hogans 30 years wrestling you find a handful of good matches...... Cena never has a bad match or blows a feud.

Rated_R(ob)KO
02-05-2011, 04:28 AM
cause Cena actually doesnt have bad matches..... Hogan had good matches with Savage (who carried him and had amazing build for the match) and he had a really good one with the Warrior which was booking, heat, moment and miricle that made it good..... other than that in Hogans 30 years wrestling you find a handful of good matches...... Cena never has a bad match or blows a feud.

That's what I'm talking about with The Brown One's reply. He stated that people hate Cena because of his "5 moves of doom" therefore I said, and what's die difference between him and Hogan then? Clearly you mis-undertood my reply, yet again. It's cool, you usually have a bad way of interpeting me.

JohnnyPhantom
02-05-2011, 04:29 AM
And the difference between Hogan and this is?

Exactly. Hell you could say that for alot of wrestlers.

The system is the downfall... Bad guys beats up good guy, good guy comes back, bad guy comes back and good guy wins in a flury.

Its good that we dont see that everytime but it seems that people like Orton, Cena, Miz and a few others this happens more than most. Its what happens when you give ur top stars moves that people want to see and people expect to take out there opponent. When Trips comes back how much do you wanna bet we'll see... Spine Buster, Harley Race High Knee, Off the ropes into the face buster and a pedigree!! Now im a triple h fan but its entertainment first and formost for the WWE. If us fans ran it.. we might see things different until you started losing money cause you had cena do nothing and then had to make him your world champion.

Business trumps fans, unfortunetly.

The Brown One
02-05-2011, 04:33 AM
That is another reason. The Miz does look good with the title, but they are not making him look credible. Everytime he fights bigger main eventers like he is supposed to be now he squirms just to pull out a victory. An then he feuds with Jerry Lawler who is barely kicking on his last legs. Jerry can still get around very well for an old guy, but he slows down more an more every time he falls on to the mat. That just makes The Miz seem like a cowarding opportunist, and I have a feeling that Michael Cole will get involved to keep Jerry from winning again.

Good post. But it seemed that Jerry needed someone to feud with, and the current WWE champion(who, for some reason they want him to hold the WWE title till Mania) was the answer. I like how they played up on the fact that Jerry Lawler has never gotten a WWE title match, and never won the title. Well this is his chance, and I know hes going to fail, but lets face it, hes going to retire soon, so this is a good sendoff. Unfortunately, the WWE title hasn't had many great wrestlers holding it in a long time. Last year, till now, we have had Cena, Orton(which is ok, since he was a tweener this time, but his matches aren't all that exciting), Batista, The Miz. The only one I actually liked as champion, was Sheamus. I know he had a crappy run too, due to Nexus constantly interfering in the WWE title matches, giving Sheamus the chance to win, but he was a breath of fresh air(and his matches are fun to watch). We need someone like that again. I hope they don't fuck up the Smackdown picture. I like it with Edge, and ADR as it is right now.


And the difference between Hogan and this is?

I could go on and on about how different Hogan and Cena are. But I won't waste your time. When did Hogan even come into this?
By the way, I also think that Hogan didn't have too many good matches(but they were better than Cenas, since they had more wrestling back then, with the greats).

The Brown One
02-05-2011, 04:38 AM
That's what I'm talking about with The Brown One's reply. He stated that people hate Cena because of his "5 moves of doom" therefore I said, and what's die difference between him and Hogan then? Clearly you mis-undertood my reply, yet again. It's cool, you usually have a bad way of interpeting me.

The time also factored into Hogan's success. Half the audience dislikes Cena now because they are men, and realize that Cena's matches are almost the same every time.
Hogan however, was in his prime in a time that people loved wrestling much more than they do now. It was a time when adults watched him, and loved what he had to say, and do in the ring.

Its true what people say about the 5 moves of doom, and yes many wrestlers have them. And I think that we will grow to dislike them too, as time goes on. People already bitch about Triple H, Randy Orton, and The Undertaker. I think in several years, people will start complaining about ADR.

THE_CRIPPLER
02-05-2011, 04:49 AM
That's what I'm talking about with The Brown One's reply. He stated that people hate Cena because of his "5 moves of doom" therefore I said, and what's die difference between him and Hogan then? Clearly you mis-undertood my reply, yet again. It's cool, you usually have a bad way of interpeting me.

sorry i thought that was a reply to me

THE_CRIPPLER
02-05-2011, 05:17 AM
The time also factored into Hogan's success. Half the audience dislikes Cena now because they are men, and realize that Cena's matches are almost the same every time.
Hogan however, was in his prime in a time that people loved wrestling much more than they do now. It was a time when adults watched him, and loved what he had to say, and do in the ring.

Its true what people say about the 5 moves of doom, and yes many wrestlers have them. And I think that we will grow to dislike them too, as time goes on. People already bitch about Triple H, Randy Orton, and The Undertaker. I think in several years, people will start complaining about ADR.

Haaaa what everyone doesnt understand is every wrestler has a routine.... HBK is Flyin Forearm, Nip up, Inverted atomic drop, Clothes Line, Slam, Elbow off the top and Super Kick..... Bret Hart also.... Ric Flairs matches are all routine..... These are the best in the history of wrestling.

Im not saying Cena is great, but he isnt bad, he Always has good matches, never once has Cena stank up the arena (except that time when he shit in his pants but thats a diff story).... Randy Orton has Blown a money feud with HHH 2 times, HE also Blew a feud with the Undertaker, he blew several feuds with Edge. Randy Orton stank up WrestleMania and had one the worse main events ever in there history...... Say what you want about Cena but weather its a Big Show or Khali, A UmangaOr a Shawn Michaels he always deilvars in the feud and in the matches.

in a day when Edge is a shell of his former self, Under Taker gets injured after every other match, Mysterio is a walking Injury, Cena is the only person that really deilvars..... Does he win to much? yes, but so did Austin, Shawn Michaels and Hogan before him..... Top Guys gonna win all the time, its the way it goes especially if he is a face.... Samoa Joe didnt lose a match for 2 years anmd no one complained.... So its not winning thats the problem is people just think it makes them look smarter if we down play cenas accomplishments but honestly he isnt the worse wrestler or performer out there, he is actually pretty good.

Kashdinero
02-05-2011, 05:21 AM
The fact of the matter is, Cena and Orton are still both young and have years ahead of them. So, seeing as there's no-where else for them to go, the haters are just gonna have to lump it! Although I'm somewhat of a, very mild, hater, I'm more than willing to lump it as I'm not gonna stop watching WWE, like, ever!
I, for one, just kind of zone out when either of them are wrestling, as I've seen them wrestle so many times it's all become a tad boring. I've probably seen every single match these guys have ever had on WWE television. The fact that they're still the same wrestlers I was rooting for five or six years ago, is actually the problem. It's not their fault, if it is a fault to remain successful for that long, it's the way WWE (and wrestling in general) does business. Vince has always had the mentality that he must squeeze every last drop out of his main eventers, and by using younger talent as the top draws he has a guaranteed cash cow for the rest of their career. The Miz is on the verge of breaking in to that elite group, and once he's been there for a few years I'm sure I'll be bored of him too. No matter how much of a mark I am for a wrestler, there's a limit to how long they can fully hold my attention, before the next big thing comes along. It's just the way it is!

THE_CRIPPLER
02-05-2011, 05:26 AM
You sir, are absolutely right, but the boldest part is the most important, I don't get what people find so good about Orton other than his RKO, who knows what Orton would be without it:O

Orton was pushed so many times and failed and it just finally stuck, im not downing Orton, he has alot of good, his Persona and charector is great, he has a great move set.... but he has borring matches, he is too slow, i understand slow it down for dramtic effect but that is riducles, he wil sit there and stomp for 5 mins of the match...... He is too slow, way too slow and besides the DDT he steals other peoples moves... Diamond Cutter, Angle Slam, Garvin Stomps.

Androo
02-05-2011, 09:40 AM
I pretty much echo the same comment Kashdinero makes. Iv posted about cena and this kinda subject in 2 similar threads, so cant really be bothered typin up again! So il just go with this.....
(sorry)

Umanga


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHuRDChaj4M&feature=related

SaberToothTigerz
02-05-2011, 10:23 AM
people's opinnions about everything in the world change
why not in wrestling?
simple as that.

WWTNA Mark
02-05-2011, 10:47 AM
TBH, in the WWE, You don't have to be a great or even good wrestler to be world championship material in my eyes. John Cena isn't the greatest wrestler but he isn't the worst neither. I have never watched a John Cena match where I have to flip the channel. He delivers in matches and storylines so you can't take that away from him.

Kashdinero
02-05-2011, 02:20 PM
I pretty much echo the same comment Kashdinero makes. Iv posted about cena and this kinda subject in 2 similar threads, so cant really be bothered typin up again! So il just go with this.....
(sorry)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHuRDChaj4M&feature=related

Thanks bruv!

Also, Ooo-Man-gah!!!

Regal actually insists that is the proper way to pronounce it (but not spell it!) As I'm not Samoan, I can neither agree or disagree, I can only chuckle at it a bit! ;)

THE_CRIPPLER
02-05-2011, 06:38 PM
The fact of the matter is, Cena and Orton are still both young and have years ahead of them. So, seeing as there's no-where else for them to go, the haters are just gonna have to lump it! Although I'm somewhat of a, very mild, hater, I'm more than willing to lump it as I'm not gonna stop watching WWE, like, ever!
I, for one, just kind of zone out when either of them are wrestling, as I've seen them wrestle so many times it's all become a tad boring. I've probably seen every single match these guys have ever had on WWE television. The fact that they're still the same wrestlers I was rooting for five or six years ago, is actually the problem. It's not their fault, if it is a fault to remain successful for that long, it's the way WWE (and wrestling in general) does business. Vince has always had the mentality that he must squeeze every last drop out of his main eventers, and by using younger talent as the top draws he has a guaranteed cash cow for the rest of their career. The Miz is on the verge of breaking in to that elite group, and once he's been there for a few years I'm sure I'll be bored of him too. No matter how much of a mark I am for a wrestler, there's a limit to how long they can fully hold my attention, before the next big thing comes along. It's just the way it is!

Honestly Orton is a totally diff Wrestler than he was 6 years ago, even the performance of his finisher..... Is it for the Better? Persona wise yes (im talking about the bad guy Viper gimmick), Wrestling wise? Probably not, who knows.... but to claim The Same Orton who won the belt from Beniot in 04 is the Same today, is not even close, Orton has changed gimmicks and heel, Face, Tweener..... Cena? no he hasnt. but he is making money so Even a Cena turn would be amazing for me, its not worth WWE losing several million in merch alone to make me and the few thousand on this bored happy, who will watch reguardless anyway.

The Brown One
02-05-2011, 06:42 PM
Honestly Orton is a totally diff Wrestler than he was 6 years ago, even the performance of his finisher..... Is it for the Better? Persona wise yes (im talking about the bad guy Viper gimmick), Wrestling wise? Probably not, who knows.... but to claim The Same Orton who won the belt from Beniot in 04 is the Same today, is not even close, Orton has changed gimmicks and heel, Face, Tweener..... Cena? no he hasnt. but he is making money so Even a Cena turn would be amazing for me, its not worth WWE losing several million in merch alone to make me and the few thousand on this bored happy, who will watch reguardless anyway.

Its true that the RKO goes well with the gimmick. But I think the fans rely too much on the RKO. You can hear the chants 2 minutes into his matches! His matches are very slow paced now, probably due to the Viper gimmick. He only starts to speed up towards the end, when he hits the scoop slam, and the RKO.

Rich Cranium
02-05-2011, 06:48 PM
Its true that the RKO goes well with the gimmick. But I think the fans rely too much on the RKO. You can hear the chants 2 minutes into his matches! His matches are very slow paced now, probably due to the Viper gimmick. He only starts to speed up towards the end, when he hits the scoop slam, and the RKO.

Orton really is a talented wrestler though. I used to be impressed when he would go against Benoit, check this out, a sharpshooter from Randy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grG7hXjfM1M&feature=related

Iron Ape
02-05-2011, 06:53 PM
This phenomenon isn't limited to just wrestling, unfortunately. Kids nowadays just love to bitch about anything and everything; it's what they think the internet was created for.

The Brown One
02-05-2011, 07:00 PM
Orton really is a talented wrestler though. I used to be impressed when he would go against Benoit, check this out, a sharpshooter from Randy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grG7hXjfM1M&feature=related

Damn right he was talented! I liked that he broke out from Evolution(well they destroyed him, and then kicked him out). After he left Evolution, he has brought up his own stable, and 2 young men more over than before, and is now the posterboy for the company. Not a bad career! But I miss his old wrestling moves.

Jayoholic
02-05-2011, 07:02 PM
Haaaa what everyone doesnt understand is every wrestler has a routine.... HBK is Flyin Forearm, Nip up, Inverted atomic drop, Clothes Line, Slam, Elbow off the top and Super Kick..... Bret Hart also.... Ric Flairs matches are all routine..... These are the best in the history of wrestling.

Im not saying Cena is great, but he isnt bad, he Always has good matches, never once has Cena stank up the arena (except that time when he shit in his pants but thats a diff story).... Randy Orton has Blown a money feud with HHH 2 times, HE also Blew a feud with the Undertaker, he blew several feuds with Edge. Randy Orton stank up WrestleMania and had one the worse main events ever in there history...... Say what you want about Cena but weather its a Big Show or Khali, A UmangaOr a Shawn Michaels he always deilvars in the feud and in the matches.

in a day when Edge is a shell of his former self, Under Taker gets injured after every other match, Mysterio is a walking Injury, Cena is the only person that really deilvars..... Does he win to much? yes, but so did Austin, Shawn Michaels and Hogan before him..... Top Guys gonna win all the time, its the way it goes especially if he is a face.... Samoa Joe didnt lose a match for 2 years anmd no one complained.... So its not winning thats the problem is people just think it makes them look smarter if we down play cenas accomplishments but honestly he isnt the worse wrestler or performer out there, he is actually pretty good.

I agree 100%. EVERYONE, including Triple H, Daniel Bryan and HBK performs the same moves within the same time week in and week out. I tend to automatically click away whenever I see "5 moves of doom" posted because if you're going to just tag Cena with it, then you should tag the rest of the roster. Now, I can understand that you don't like the moves he do...that's fine, but to put him down just because of how many he has is ridiculous. Then if he was to do something different like a drop kick or an off the top rope move, you'll criticize him and say "Well...HBK has done that before" or "CM Punk did that too". It's one thing to dislike someone, but it's another and totally f'd up to discredit him. You can dislike whoever you want, but when your reasons for the dislike fail to make any kind of sense, then there goes your credibility.

Kashdinero
02-06-2011, 01:00 AM
Honestly Orton is a totally diff Wrestler than he was 6 years ago, even the performance of his finisher..... Is it for the Better? Persona wise yes (im talking about the bad guy Viper gimmick), Wrestling wise? Probably not, who knows.... but to claim The Same Orton who won the belt from Beniot in 04 is the Same today, is not even close, Orton has changed gimmicks and heel, Face, Tweener..... Cena? no he hasnt. but he is making money so Even a Cena turn would be amazing for me, its not worth WWE losing several million in merch alone to make me and the few thousand on this bored happy, who will watch reguardless anyway.

I meant same, as in the same person. Not the same gimmick. As in real life. Not kayfabe.