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View Full Version : What's too fast?



nrb6304
01-20-2011, 12:44 AM
Some people complain about people getting pushed too fast or too slow.

Now if you've read any of my past stuff you'll know that I'm all in favor for just SHOVING superstars into the main event in the sink or swim method. And I used Brock Lesnar as my proof that it can work.

I recently acquired the entire 2001 PPV pack. Every PPV in 2001. WHICH made me think of ANOTHER MAN who just in a year had an outstanding year......

KURT ANGLE.

If you wanna argue that Brock Lesnar is a fluke, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, cuz some COULD argue that he was. BUT NOT KURT ANGLE!
Hell we have all talked about Angle being possibly the best EVER. Let's look at Survivor Series 1999-Survivor Series 2000 for Kurt Angle. In just one year time Angle: Won the European Title, won the IC title, won the King of the Ring, won the WWE Championship. And i'm only in September.

Too fast? Possibly. But nobody complained. And now we all consider Angle one of the best EVER.

The fast push CAN work.

Bodom
01-20-2011, 01:05 AM
IMO fast Push does not equal "make you a star that can stay relevant and hold peoples interest". Sure it's a fantastic tool that quickly unlock a wrestlers potential to become the star that the company thinks they'll become, but what if that individual doesn't have capability or the "talent" to keep up with it?

What if instead of Brock Lesnar..it was Funaki receiving the entirely same treatment? Or instead of Kurt Angle..it was Spike Dudley? Can we really say that they would become the mega-stars like Angle and Lesnar?

So ofcourse it "can" work, but that doesn't mean it will always work.

Kashdinero
01-20-2011, 01:33 AM
Dude, your talking about Kurt and Brock for f**k sake! Of course they're gonna get pushed to the moon from the offset, they're background's absolutely guaranteed that.

loyalDTF
01-20-2011, 01:41 AM
EXACTLY, let it be someone without amatuer or olympic wrestling backgrounds. could it be done, maybe, if the have IT, what ever the hell IT is lol

peppermill25
01-20-2011, 02:21 AM
tOO FAST IS WHAT HAPPENED TO SLWAGGER

The Brown One
01-20-2011, 03:23 AM
If your'e the size of Kurt and Brock, and have the skills that they had(eg. Kurt was an Olympic gold medalist even before he stepped foot in a WWE ring), WWE is bound to like them, and push them to the moon. It doesn't always work out though, possibly due to the fact that the wrestler receiving a very fast push doesn't draw and entertain the fans as much as WWE expected them to. e.g. Jack Swagger, as peppermill25 stated above.

Wedge_00
01-20-2011, 07:20 AM
The fast push can work; but i think you see more failures then successes... I'm interested in seeing how Sheamus pulls along with a few more years he is another quick push. It's too case by case to argue if it should be applied to a lot of new wrestlers..

JohnnyPhantom
01-20-2011, 07:23 AM
If you go back and look at Kurt Angles arrival in WWE, he was set for greatness from the beggining. Great promos that made the crowd bring the boos down louder and louder each week. It breaks down like this...

Great entrance promos (Check)
Great background so people actually already know who he is (Check)
Awesome on the Mic (Check)
Incredibly hard worker (Check)
Sells EVERYONE!!! (Check)

Now to be fair, he was handed his WWE Career on a Golden platter but everything he did past his beggining was IMO because he was the best, if not Top 3 wrestlers in all of the 2000's. The others being Y2J and Danielson. Obvously thats just my opinion.

(Oh and Angle was apart of some of the funniest on camera moments in all of wrestling. The Angle/Austin Invasion stuff was must see tv)

Mikeyboy7777777
01-20-2011, 08:13 AM
in my opinion they need more wrestlers with an amateur wrestling background i dont'know but i just like them they already have the technical bit to start and well it's an advantage i mean look at haas & benjamin kurt angle and now jack swagger i mean i just think it would work

IPOOPINTHEBATH
01-20-2011, 08:33 AM
I don't mind a monster push right off the bat, but not straight to the title. A title shot maybe, and occasionally a reign like Brock or Kurt. Also they need to not do the whole "Undefeated" push thing. It's really dumb when a wrestler goes months without a loss and as soon as they do lose their push stops cold.

PrimusSucks
01-20-2011, 09:29 AM
I would say Sheamus was pushed to fast, because at first he wasn't very accepted, but over time the crowd really grew to hate him and now I feel he will be a main eventer forever, if Swagger had been shoved down our throats instead of jobbing to the Big Show then he would be just as big I bet.

Tommy Thunder
01-20-2011, 09:29 AM
It's all down to the wrestler. Angle and Brock had the backgrounds to back up their monster push. The monster push worked on them because they were already established wrestlers. We're seeing the same with Alberto del Rio at the moment. He was an established wrestler before coming to WWE, so the big push is working with him.

Rassling_Fan
01-20-2011, 09:37 AM
What about the Rock. Was a football player in college and no official wrestling background outside being a Third Generation Superstar and a stint in USWA (trained in wrestling though). Year later won a World Title.

thejman93
01-20-2011, 09:55 AM
What about the Rock. Was a football player in college and no official wrestling background outside being a Third Generation Superstar and a stint in USWA (trained in wrestling though). Year later won a World Title.

Rock didn't need to be great in the ring because he was so damn good on the mic.

vbirwin
01-20-2011, 11:06 AM
Bottom line, the fast push is a good thing Regardless. But in the long run it won't matter because you will eventually settle in at whatever level your talent and personality dictate you should be at. If you get the big push and your talent/personality are at the main event level you will stay there (ie Angle, Lesner, maybe even Sheamus). If not you will eventually drop and settle in at the level you would have been at anyway (Swagger, Mcyntyre). But at least you will have had a taste and moving forward you will have the benefit of a little credibility for the the wins over top guys you got during the push. Even if he never get's higher than the mid card again Swagger will always be able to say he beat Chris Jericho for the title, which gives him some cred over guys who debuted in the mid card and never got higher.

HeelTurn
01-20-2011, 11:20 AM
Remember when Kozlov was shoved down our throats. Now hes not a patch on Angle in any way shape or form, both in the ring and on the mic. Yet WWE gave him the monster push and even a 1 on 1 match against Triple H at Survivor Series, which was so bad the audience was chanting "boring" and "TNA, TNA".

Rich Cranium
01-20-2011, 11:34 AM
Like everyone has stated, Angle and Lesnar are an unfair comparison! Angle didn't just have IT, he had ALL and Lesnar lacked in the Mic dept. but had a great mouthpiece in Paul Heyman. Koslov is a decent comparison since he has the Sambo background, hell, give him good ol JR as his manager and that guy would be in the upper echelon right now as opposed to a comedy act.

The Grand Wizard
01-20-2011, 11:37 AM
Like everyone has stated, Angle and Lesnar are an unfair comparison! Angle didn't just have IT, he had ALL and Lesnar lacked in the Mic dept. but had a great mouthpiece in Paul Heyman. Koslov is a decent comparison since he has the Sambo background, hell, give him good ol JR as his manager and that guy would be in the upper echelon right now as opposed to a comedy act.
Maybe if he also got rid of the Nikolai Volkoff trunks it would help.

Justdawg08
01-20-2011, 12:33 PM
IMO fast Push does not equal "make you a star that can stay relevant and hold peoples interest". Sure it's a fantastic tool that quickly unlock a wrestlers potential to become the star that the company thinks they'll become, but what if that individual doesn't have capability or the "talent" to keep up with it?

What if instead of Brock Lesnar..it was Funaki receiving the entirely same treatment? Or instead of Kurt Angle..it was Spike Dudley? Can we really say that they would become the mega-stars like Angle and Lesnar?

So ofcourse it "can" work, but that doesn't mean it will always work.

How do Funaki and Spike Dudley even compare to Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar?

WWE would be on crack if they pushed Funkai or Spike Dudley like they pushed Kurt and Brock.

Bodom
01-20-2011, 12:42 PM
How do Funaki and Spike Dudley even compare to Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar?

WWE would be on crack if they pushed Funkai or Spike Dudley like they pushed Kurt and Brock.

It was meant as an example. That a "fast push" doesn't necessarily mean a wrestler will become a superstar as high of caliber as Angle or Lesnar

CobraNightviper
01-20-2011, 08:53 PM
was there ever a wrestler that got a big push and then became a total jobber?I can't really rember any right now.

Bodom
01-20-2011, 08:56 PM
Hercules Hernandez maybe?

After his match with Hogan they pretty much did nothing with him.

Rassling_Fan
01-20-2011, 10:32 PM
was there ever a wrestler that got a big push and then became a total jobber?I can't really rember any right now.

Koslov had a great push in the beginning, but now is in Comedy Matches with Santino.
Khali was booked strong in the beginning, but is now the Punjabi Playboy.
Kane was given a strong push in the beginning of his career (as Kane), then it kinds of goes up and down from here.

Bodom
01-20-2011, 10:37 PM
Santino's pretty over with the crowds right now, so I wouldn't consider teaming with him a bad thing.

Everything else is spot on

Kashdinero
01-20-2011, 11:02 PM
I remember Test fell pretty far after his engagement to Stephanie was called off.