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Justhomester
07-23-2012, 10:17 PM
CM Punk turning heel was very unexpected to me, although it was very noticeable when he poked Cena in the eye and then allowed the Big Show to attack him. It was very exciting and unexpected and quite a great ending to the 1000th episode of Raw.
What are your thoughts? Where do you think this will go? Did you enjoy the 1000th Raw?

BadAndy
07-23-2012, 10:20 PM
So we've all seen it, dvr'ed it, or read about it. My question is, can they keep Punk strong as a heel or will they make him weak? We all know how good he is as a heel. I just hope that he remains a fighting champion and they don't make him cowardly. They essentially just took the whole storyline from TNA with Roode by making Punk question his decision making. I don't mind as long as we get the Punk we all know and love.

MachoManFan
07-23-2012, 10:24 PM
I'm expecting him to start strong and get progressively weaker until he loses the belt. I'm surprised they went this way since Daniel Bryan just reaffirmed himself as heel and has laid claim to the title. In any case it will be interesting to see if anything comes of the AJ involvement with Punk and Bryan now she's GM.

Amerinaine
07-23-2012, 10:25 PM
I can see them keeping the belt on Punk until the next Wrestlemania.

Pumpkinhead
07-23-2012, 10:26 PM
It's the E', they make all the heels look weak!!!

Yes2J
07-23-2012, 10:35 PM
Surprised that there was no Stone Cold...I didn't see it coming, and I am INCREDIBLY dissappointed at the WWE's decision to make CM Punk a heel. This SuperCena shit was almost over, but yet again, Cena as champ=never turning heel...somehow CM Punk, their top guy...can though. They could have flipped the WWE landscape upside down by making Cena a heel when he was champ...but they didn't want to sully Cena's image. It's fine if they do that too Punk though...sure.

BadAndy
07-23-2012, 10:49 PM
It's the E', they make all the heels look weak!!!

So true, but in the past Punk has been very strong as a heel. Sure he had his cronies, but he was still the head of the spear. In TNA when Roode turned heel, in just about the same kind of way, he maintained a good deal of his "courage." He fought hard and was tough. I want them to keep Punk tough and not start relying on the Big Show or somebody else for everything. I think that he should beat the hell out of The Rock at Royal Rumble and just leave a path of carnage in his wake. He's more than capable of being that kind of heel.

Big_D77
07-23-2012, 11:00 PM
I am quite pleased with Punk being a heel again, if in fact that's the direction they're going. This is fuel for more great matches and promos in the second summer of Punk.

justinc
07-23-2012, 11:23 PM
I'm anticipating Punk throwing the spinner belt away and bringing out the new title.

AWrestlingGod
07-24-2012, 12:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n_G-DQDd9U

My opinion is that CM Punk is an awesome heel, so this rivalry with the rock could be amazing if he can rip him to shread and the promos are going to be amazing. CM Punk should stay heel untill wrestlemania where he could hopefuly wrestle Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Thoughts?

Machomadness97
07-24-2012, 12:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n_G-DQDd9U

My opinion is that CM Punk is an awesome heel, so this rivalry with the rock could be amazing if he can rip him to shread and the promos are going to be amazing. CM Punk should stay heel untill wrestlemania where he could hopefuly wrestle Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Thoughts?
I have to agree. C.M pUNK is a awesome heel and should use this momentum leading into Wrestlemania 29.

Running the Vickie Train
07-24-2012, 12:13 AM
Well looks like our straight-edge savior is going to be a heel again just so he can drop the title to The Rock. Really a stupid ass idea if you ask me. You can't very well make The Rock into the heel, but to have him not help Cena after The Big Show attacks, then feel bad, then attack The Rock...hell would have been better if it was the other way around and Super Cena was the one that left Punk laying....but oh well.

Your thoughts?

Machomadness97
07-24-2012, 12:16 AM
It was amazing when Punk turned heel. Now this is the Summer Of Heel Punk! I hope he can keep this momentum but he has always had the crowd's attention. Now his ring work will consist of more taunting and he will be better in promos. This will lead him to a match with Austin at Wrestlemania 29!

Haruko Haruhara
07-24-2012, 12:16 AM
This is an amazing time to do it. Hes in an 8 month title run and he, imo, was on the edge of being another boring champion. This will extend his run 8 or more months. This was the best thing to come out of tonight and I think its amazing that Cena, Rock, and Show put him over. CM Punk will be one of the top 5 longest runs in history. I can feel it now!

BadAndy
07-24-2012, 12:18 AM
I don't feel like it's a given that he'll drop the title. I think WWE has to be realistic that The Rock can't be unbeatable against these guys. To me they've made Rocky just as much Superman as they have Cena. I want a vicious Punk heel though. I want The Rock to fear what Punk can do. Lord knows Punk is going to have to carry Rock all throughout any match they have.

Also, sidenote here. I think they did this with Punk when they wished the could've done it with Cena last year. It's basically their same plans a year later with a better superstar.

Machomadness97
07-24-2012, 12:20 AM
I don't feel like it's a given that he'll drop the title. I think WWE has to be realistic that The Rock can't be unbeatable against these guys. To me they've made Rocky just as much Superman as they have Cena. I want a vicious Punk heel though. I want The Rock to fear what Punk can do. Lord knows Punk is going to have to carry Rock all throughout any match they have.

Also, sidenote here. I think they did this with Punk when they wished the could've done it with Cena last year. It's basically their same plans a year later with a better superstar.

The Rock is not unstoppable and I believe that he will lose a match soon enough but after he wins the gold, probably at Wrestlemania 29 to John Cena!

Machomadness97
07-24-2012, 12:22 AM
The heel turn is getting a lot of attention. Punk is not a good face because he can not hold himself back in promo's and wants to say what comes to mind. Punk as a heel is a great idea!

Amerinaine
07-24-2012, 12:34 AM
I don't feel like it's a given that he'll drop the title. I think WWE has to be realistic that The Rock can't be unbeatable against these guys. To me they've made Rocky just as much Superman as they have Cena. I want a vicious Punk heel though. I want The Rock to fear what Punk can do. Lord knows Punk is going to have to carry Rock all throughout any match they have.

Also, sidenote here. I think they did this with Punk when they wished the could've done it with Cena last year. It's basically their same plans a year later with a better superstar.

This right here is the voice of reason. Cena is not a good wrestler. He is a good entertainer whom I don't like. Rock is not a good wrestler, although still miles better than Cena. Rock is a good entertainer whom I loathe. Rock v Cena for me sucked the life out of an OK Wrestlemania as it was.

Now that they are going to do Rock vs Punk at the Royal Rumble, it will be interesting to see that match happen. Punk is a good wrestler who also happens to be a great entertainer whom I do like. Heel Punk is more believable than Heel Cena, and besides, Punk wasn't so much a Face as he was a Tweener.

BadAndy
07-24-2012, 12:35 AM
I saw the funniest comment in the live feed area for Raw. Somebody saying that they knew Punk was going to turn heel. Like it wasn't a surprise. Their comment for how they knew? "He did nothing while Cena was getting pummeled by Big Show." How dumb of a comment is this??? If they had said something about earlier in the show fine, but to say they called it while it's happening??? That makes no sense. I can tell you when someone is going to sneeze when they start scrunching up their face. Move over John Edwards, we've got a real psychic here.

Okay, I'm done with the soapbox. Punk will excel at being a heel as usual. It will be interesting to see a heel Punk without a stable. I don't think we've had that for quite some time (I feel like he was technically a tweener by the time he did his pipebomb).

Wrestling1
07-24-2012, 12:41 AM
at first i didnt like it but now that i think about it the feud with rock will be epic and i hope to go SCSA comes back soon i was pissed he wasnt on 1000

Running the Vickie Train
07-24-2012, 01:20 AM
It's dumb because they have already made him the face of WWE 13. Why make him a heel now. Unless he's a "Orton" heel

Dennis
07-24-2012, 01:24 AM
cm punk be angry.. he is overshadowed by a man who hasn't held the title for close to a year.. while he is on the longest run since cenas long run a couple of years back... and now the rock is just gift wrapped another golden egg with a title match which we all know the wwe is going to give him... unbelievable I'm ready for great promos/greater matches by one of the best wrestlers in the wrestling business today...

evilgenius780
07-24-2012, 01:36 AM
Wasn't surprised at all by this, Punk voiced his dislike for The Rock during his promo last year, so it made perfect sense. I didn't mind Punk as a face, but I enjoy him as a heel as well. I think the big thing here is the Money in the Bank was cashed in, and we did not see a new champion. I think a DQ wasn't the best way for that to occur for the first time.

Dennis
07-24-2012, 01:38 AM
cm punk as a heel. YES! YES! YES! I was so angry when face punk beat heel bryan because punk was getting boring! punk a great wrestler shouldn't be held down by trying to pander to the crowd I almost shut off the tv when he told aj that he would lose the title before lying to her and now we got the old cm punk back. the man who says what comes to his mind and only cares about one man and that's himself and that is what makes great wrestling t.v. plus he isn't going to be overshadowed by the rock or john cena.. he can share the spotlight as a heel whereas before he was a face with a title in the less meaningful match.

tweedidldum
07-24-2012, 01:40 AM
why do you all assume punk is heel now cause he confronted the allmighty ROCK. Grow the fuck up already...phhhttt!! this shit is way too predictable. Punk is the champion, just because he confronts the Rock and tells him look i will be the champ at Royal Rumble so you will face me....now all of sudden he's a heel. He's not a heel you morons Rock wants the title so who ever is the champ at that time has to be a heel because they will face the Rock.

Why can't the Rock be a heel facing Punk who is a top face in the wwe right now. Fucking clue in would ya!!!

Dennis
07-24-2012, 01:44 AM
Wasn't surprised at all by this, Punk voiced his dislike for The Rock during his promo last year, so it made perfect sense. I didn't mind Punk as a face, but I enjoy him as a heel as well. I think the big thing here is the Money in the Bank was cashed in, and we did not see a new champion. I think a DQ wasn't the best way for that to occur for the first time.
it is a sneaky way around saying that your face lost at your biggest non ppv event of the past decade.. plus you make cena the definite face (not cashing it in when he could of owned punk after show beat him down) and a definite heel in punk (punk totally willing to screw cena plus attacking the rock with out being provoked) leading up to the obvious summerslam match what will likely be the match that determines who faces the rock at the rumble.. and the loser will likely win the rumble and face the rock at wrestlemania.

Dennis
07-24-2012, 01:47 AM
why do you all assume punk is heel now cause he confronted the allmighty ROCK. Grow the fuck up already...phhhttt!! this shit is way too predictable. Punk is the champion, just because he confronts the Rock and tells him look i will be the champ at Royal Rumble so you will face me....now all of sudden he's a heel. He's not a heel you morons Rock wants the title so who ever is the champ at that time has to be a heel because they will face the Rock.

Why can't the Rock be a heel facing Punk who is a top face in the wwe right now. Fucking clue in would ya!!!
turning the rock heel... and we are the ones who need to get a clue? :)

Rick BoA
07-24-2012, 01:57 AM
Its a bad idea imo.

Rick BoA
07-24-2012, 02:00 AM
Punk is a terrible heel.

Playboy Stevie V
07-24-2012, 02:12 AM
The clue was Cole and Lawler saying punk has turned his back on the fans or something like that. He's a heel, but will still have his supporters. Punk wasnt like cena and had soccer moms and kids adoring him. He was anti establishment and teenagers and adults were his biggest supporters. Hes going to be better as a heel. Dirty tactics and antics now. He will still be cheered just like tonight. WWE stopped him from becoming stale with his title reign being so long. This gives him new angles and matches.

See what I did there? No name calling cause people have different opinions.

Dennis
07-24-2012, 02:22 AM
The clue was Cole and Lawler saying punk has turned his back on the fans or something like that. He's a heel, but will still have his supporters. Punk wasnt like cena and had soccer moms and kids adoring him. He was anti establishment and teenagers and adults were his biggest supporters. Hes going to be better as a heel. Dirty tactics and antics now. He will still be cheered just like tonight. WWE stopped him from becoming stale with his title reign being so long. This gives him new angles and matches.

See what I did there? No name calling cause people have different opinions.
I totally agree with your entire premise.. the bolded text is awesome. everyone should have the right to their opinion if not there is no reason to right on these boards because either 1) we are all drones just repeating the same thing or 2) its just a bunch of nonsense insults because you can't respect others opinions. back on topic.. punk as a heel should excite every wrestling fan heels are funner to watch notice how most members of the iwc love heels IMO it's because even us well trained eyes of the iwc can't always predict what the heel is going to do to win

Peter Kaymakcian
07-24-2012, 02:34 AM
I think D-Bryan will actually win the WWE Championship and face the Rock at the Royal Rumble

Callum
07-24-2012, 02:39 AM
why do you all assume punk is heel now cause he confronted the allmighty ROCK. Grow the fuck up already...phhhttt!! this shit is way too predictable. Punk is the champion, just because he confronts the Rock and tells him look i will be the champ at Royal Rumble so you will face me....now all of sudden he's a heel. He's not a heel you morons Rock wants the title so who ever is the champ at that time has to be a heel because they will face the Rock.

Why can't the Rock be a heel facing Punk who is a top face in the wwe right now. Fucking clue in would ya!!!

After Punk hit GTS on The Rock and walked out to the back, Jerry Lawler said 'Punk has turned his back
on the entire Wwe universe' meaning he is now a heel

Ahmed Jens Ben Arfa
07-24-2012, 02:47 AM
It was something..that was to be made.The E decided to turn Punk Heel right now,in my opinion,not because of The Rock,Neither Cena.It is just because of the "uncredibility" of the Raw Roster.
I predicted Punk heel turn weeks ago,in the MITB Prediction thread,But I'm not going to say that I saw that coming tonight xD
But Still,there are so many factors for Punk to turn Heel,and it is because he have to face "Faces" now.Especially when you're facing the Top player of the company,John Borena.
8 MOnths of Being champion ; Punk defeated John Cena first ; Then he defeated Del Rio,The ADR and the Miz together,then got 3 mnths with Y2J,and another long Feud with Daniel Bryan.
Now,Let's forget about John Cena.If the WWE woud've tried to find a new number one contender for punk to work with,Who will make it?
NOBODY.
Christian just lost the miz,So The two will have a feud.
ADR is on Smackdown.and it would be Weird to switch him back to Punk after being beaten by him,which would make Punk reign a vicious circle repeating all over again.Same for Chris Jericho.
Randy orton is suspended,and won't make it in time.
Dolph ziggler is mister MITB.And he have to take on sheamus.And he is feuding with Jericho at this moment.
Tensai is just...Tensai.
Big Show alone can't have a match for the title at a big PPV like Summerslam against someone he decimated just a week ago.It would seems totally...BS..
Cody rhodes is on a loosing streak.Can't become n;1 contender.
Brodus Clay? I prefer Zack ryder fighting for the Title.Don't tell me to talk about Jack Swagger.
The only remaining person is John Cena.The Lame Face of the company,which will never turn Heel again.
So...Punk had to be the heel in this..When you're between the Rock and John Cena,how can you still stay a face? A Triple "face" threat Match?In a PG Show which,someday,will become a marvel Novel of Evil and Good fighting against Each Others?
Meuh..This situation just show that the WWE lack main eventers..New fresh ones...
Anyway,Punk as the heel is pure Gold.He's truly the Best in the world when he work as a Heel or a tweener.
If only he pull of this next week,this should get more hype than his last summer pipebomb.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreA5N16LUc&feature=related

Callum
07-24-2012, 02:47 AM
I knew Punk was going to turn heel because of how he acted in the match. Its as if he forgot he was face as he acted like a heel. The 2 key points that showed me this were:
- When he mocked Cena's 'You can't see me' taunt in the corner
- When he did the taunt to get Cena up for GTS he smirked as a heel would do

bcfccalum
07-24-2012, 03:38 AM
I knew Punk was going to turn heel because of how he acted in the match. Its as if he forgot he was face as he acted like a heel. The 2 key points that showed me this were:
- When he mocked Cena's 'You can't see me' taunt in the corner
- When he did the taunt to get Cena up for GTS he smirked as a heel would do

i marked when i saw this happen and it was also the point i realised a heel turn was going to happen.
Hoping now that hes turned heel he can revert back to his old killswitch engage music too

Shining Light
07-24-2012, 03:50 AM
Punk is a terrible heel.

CM Punk as a heel is the dogs bollocks! Just look at his stint as the "Straight Edge Saviour". He had great mic skills, brilliant in - ring work and was able to carry what was a sub - standard stable in the form of the "Straight Edge Society".

CM Punk is not a heel, he is merely an aggressive face. The crowd have gone too far in their love of him for him to lose said love in the space of 5 minutes. If the WWE want him to be a heel, they're going to have to have him do something more drastic for him to make the whole transition.

Yes2J
07-24-2012, 04:56 AM
The person who said that CM Punk turned heel to drop the belt to The Rock is correct more than likely. Punk drops the title, Cena vs. Rock is set up (though this is sickening because it will be obvious that Cena ends up winning), and somehow (probably through The Rock) Austin gets into a feud with Punk. I had pitched this theory in a different thread, but it supports these claims: CM Punk vs. The Rock Special guest referee of The Rock's choosing=Stone Cold Steve Austin. Austin gets knocked down or something in the match, either pissing off Punk, or getting pissed at Punk. The two start jawing and Punk attacks Austin.

Your Card for Wrestlemania:
Cena/Rocky II WWE Championship match (the only way Rock wins is if we then get Ziggler cashing in on him)
Battle of the Pipe Bombs=Austin vs. CM Punk
Lesnar vs. 'Taker (See the "Are we gonna do this" video that was taken after a UFC fight where Undertaker got in Lesnar's face a bit.)
Daniel Bryan vs. Jericho (Only logical choice for a non-title match.)
Sheamus vs. Alberto del Rio vs. Daniel Bryan (This one I'm not real confident about.) World Heavyweight Championship

This would be a shame a little bit because I would really love to see Austin vs. The Rock one more time...but that window is damn near closed.

Fan4Now
07-24-2012, 04:58 AM
How does anyone know, Punk turned heel, bc of The Rock, or Cena? Maybe, it's because, Stone Cold will return, and that's why. And who says, Punk will still be, WWE Champ, at the Rumble, to face Rock? I like Punk Face/Heel, but everyone hates on Rock, because he put movies 1st. Seems to me, someone IWC loves to death, Austin (Who I like too) did that tonight. Filming "Grown Ups 2", took precedent over Raw 1000. I'm not mad at Rock or Austin, I'm glad for them, but I'm only saying it, for those who hate on Rock. Where's Austin's ridicule? I doubt WWE, did NOT, try to, contact Austin. I know, they wanted him. So what, he just said NO? No, it's obvious, a movie held him up, or maybe Redneck Island (Season 2). But maybe, he's coming soon, and that's why Punk turned, because I don't think SS will be Rock/Punk, or the Rumble. I think SS will be, Cena/Punk, MITB Cash In. (News did say, they'd find a way, for Cena to keep MITB, after last night = Show's interference), and Cena will win, the WWE Title at SS, which Rock will win at RR, and Cena will reclaim, at WM 29. You might say, "They said 1 Time Only?" Did you forget WWE, tried to make everyone forget, Taker/HHH WM 17? Rock went over, so Cena, will get a turn.


(In my opinions)
1. SS will be when Cena really cashes in (News did say, they'd find a way, for him to keep it, after last night = Show's interference)
2. SS will probably be: Cena vs Punk (MITB Cash In = Cena wins)
3. Rock might not be there. Ifso, he may wrestle Show
4. Austin's probably gonna come soon, as WWE knows, fans wanted him, and obviously something, got in the way tonight.
5. Maybe that's really why Punk turned, bc I really think it'll be Cena/Punk (MITB at SS)

PS: I like Punk, as a entertainer/wrestler, but overall, he's real cocky. I could handle cocky, but he's a Hypocrite, in so many ways. Hating on Chris Brown (who I do NOT like) for beating Rihanna, but praising Austin, who beat Debra, and giving the Hardys (Not defending them - It's an example) hell, for their poor choice drug habits, but publicly praising Scott Hall (who is also, a drug head/alcoholic). He just rubs me, the wrong way, outside, of his work. By the way, he is a great mic worker, but ANY pissed off wrestler, can get on a mic, and tell secrets, about how cutthroat the backstage is. Many do it, on Youtube shoots, because unlike Punk, they don't threaten to quit, unless they're given a green light, to bad mouth Vince, and his family, publicly, and NOT get fired.

In closing: I'm gonna get bashed, the hell out of, and read them, and laugh, because it doesn't matter. Most of you, would praise WWE, if every Raw from now on, had ONLY talking/silly skits, and no wrestling, but I'm only telling things, from a different perspective. Now, I'm no pshychic, but if I'm wrong, and Punk did turn heel, because of Rock, who just comes in, and gets top matches/title shots, so what? Just shows, they NEED Rock, because creative, can't make anyone else, a BIG enough star, or they wouldn't need Rock.

Shining Light
07-24-2012, 05:03 AM
Cena/Rocky II WWE Championship match (the only way Rock wins is if we then get Ziggler cashing in on him)

Ziggler can only cash in on the World Heavyweight Championship, that's what his briefcase is for. So as much as I'd like to see Ziggler as WWE champion, it won't happen because of him cashing in the briefcase

Big_D77
07-24-2012, 05:22 AM
Punk turned heel by kicking the asses of the two dudes who "sold" last years Wrestlemania. This is gonna be all good and comparable, in my opinion, to Triple H's heel title run. This is all good and Punk isn't gonna drop the belt till the Rumble what with H's recent declaration that title runs need to be longer.

On a side note: I marked THEE fuck out when the A.P.A. came back.

Wade Barrett 1979
07-24-2012, 06:07 AM
I predicted Punk turning heel even before he turned face.

Tommy Thunder
07-24-2012, 06:13 AM
Punk has been a great face for about a year now.
People have been complaining that he's been getting stale for a while now. I dissagree with those who say that. He's still been one of WWE's top guys on the mic as far as I'm concerned over the past few months.
However, the longer you drag something out, the staler it will get (see Cena). I think WWE had milked Punk's face run as much as they could, so dragging a it on longer would have seen Punk getting a staler moving on. So I welcome this heel turn with open arms.

Punk is a fantastic heel. We've seen him work as a heel for most of his WWE career, and before that in ROH, and he's always been entertaining during those runs, generating great heat from the crowd. I think he's now got more freedom as a heel to play around with stuff on the mic as a heel, and I think we'll see Punk continuing to go from strength to strength at the top of WWE. I predict we'll see Punk retaining the WWE title through a few more ppv's yet with this heel turn.

Bodom
07-24-2012, 06:48 AM
This is the best possible thing to happen for Punk.

He was never going to be the number one face, but he can damned sure play the heel foil to John Cena. he did it once before and it was magnificent. This was before WWE invested a year in getting the fans behind Punk. Make no mistake, this was the only way for CM Punk to go up in his career and I am thrilled that WWE chose to do so.


Anyone who think's Punk can't turn the fans on him is simply wrong.

Fan4Now
07-24-2012, 06:53 AM
How does anyone know, Punk turned heel, bc of The Rock, or Cena? Maybe, it's because, Stone Cold will return, and that's why. And who says, Punk will still be, WWE Champ, at the Rumble, to face Rock? I like Punk Face/Heel, but everyone hates on Rock, because he put movies 1st. Seems to me, someone IWC loves to death, Austin (Who I like too) did that tonight. Filming "Grown Ups 2", took precedent over Raw 1000. I'm not mad at Rock or Austin, I'm glad for them, but I'm only saying it, for those who hate on Rock. Where's Austin's ridicule? I doubt WWE, did NOT, try to, contact Austin. I know, they wanted him. So what, he just said NO? No, it's obvious, a movie held him up, or maybe Redneck Island (Season 2). But maybe, he's coming soon, and that's why Punk turned, because I don't think SS will be Rock/Punk, or the Rumble. I think SS will be, Cena/Punk, MITB Cash In. (News did say, they'd find a way, for Cena to keep MITB, after last night = Show's interference), and Cena will win, the WWE Title at SS, which Rock will win at RR, and Cena will reclaim, at WM 29. You might say, "They said 1 Time Only?" Did you forget WWE, tried to make everyone forget, Taker/HHH WM 17? Rock went over, so Cena, will get a turn.




(In my opinions)
1. SS will be when Cena really cashes in (News did say, they'd find a way, for him to keep it, after last night = Show's interference)
2. SS will probably be: Cena vs Punk (MITB Cash In = Cena wins)
3. Rock might not be there. Ifso, he may wrestle Show
4. Austin's probably gonna come soon, as WWE knows, fans wanted him, and obviously something, got in the way tonight.
5. Maybe that's really why Punk turned, bc I really think it'll be Cena/Punk (MITB at SS)


PS: I like Punk, as a entertainer/wrestler, but overall, he's real cocky. I could handle cocky, but he's a Hypocrite, in so many ways. Hating on Chris Brown (who I do NOT like) for beating Rihanna, but praising Austin, who beat Debra, and giving the Hardys (Not defending them - It's an example) hell, for their poor choice drug habits, but publicly praising Scott Hall (who is also, a drug head/alcoholic). He just rubs me, the wrong way, outside, of his work. By the way, he is a great mic worker, but ANY pissed off wrestler, can get on a mic, and tell secrets, about how cutthroat the backstage is. Many do it, on Youtube shoots, because unlike Punk, they don't threaten to quit, unless they're given a green light, to bad mouth Vince, and his family, publicly, and NOT get fired.


In closing: I'm gonna get bashed, the hell out of, and read them, and laugh, because it doesn't matter. Most of you, would praise WWE, if every Raw from now on, had ONLY talking/silly skits, and no wrestling, but I'm only telling things, from a different perspective. Now, I'm no pshychic, but if I'm wrong, and Punk did turn heel, because of Rock, who just comes in, and gets top matches/title shots, so what? Just shows, they NEED Rock, because creative, can't make anyone else, a BIG enough star, or they wouldn't need Rock.

Tommy Thunder
07-24-2012, 06:53 AM
How does anyone know, Punk turned heel, bc of The Rock, or Cena? Maybe, it's because, Stone Cold will return, and that's why. And who says, Punk will still be, WWE Champ, at the Rumble, to face Rock? I like Punk Face/Heel, but everyone hates on Rock, because he put movies 1st. Seems to me, someone IWC loves to death, Austin (Who I like too) did that tonight. Filming "Grown Ups 2", took precedent over Raw 1000. I'm not mad at Rock or Austin, I'm glad for them, but I'm only saying it, for those who hate on Rock. Where's Austin's ridicule? I doubt WWE, did NOT, try to, contact Austin. I know, they wanted him. So what, he just said NO? No, it's obvious, a movie held him up, or maybe Redneck Island (Season 2). But maybe, he's coming soon, and that's why Punk turned, because I don't think SS will be Rock/Punk, or the Rumble. I think SS will be, Cena/Punk, MITB Cash In. (News did say, they'd find a way, for Cena to keep MITB, after last night = Show's interference), and Cena will win, the WWE Title at SS, which Rock will win at RR, and Cena will reclaim, at WM 29. You might say, "They said 1 Time Only?" Did you forget WWE, tried to make everyone forget, Taker/HHH WM 17? Rock went over, so Cena, will get a turn.

I think most expected SCSA to be on last night's show.
Every person who hates on The Rock for prioritizing movies over wrestling that isn't giving Austin any grief for last night is a hypocrite. No 2 ways about it. Me personally, I've never given Rock grief for how he only appears once every now and then, so I won't give Austin grief for it. But for those who do indeed bash The Rock for doing that, should also say something about how Austin did the exact same thing last night.
I fully expect to see Rock vs Cena 2 (maybe even 3). I never bought the "Once in a lifetime" thing. It's too much of a money match not to do again at least once more.


(In my opinions)
1. SS will be when Cena really cashes in (News did say, they'd find a way, for him to keep it, after last night = Show's interference)
2. SS will probably be: Cena vs Punk (MITB Cash In = Cena wins)
3. Rock might not be there. If so, he may wrestle Show
4. Austin's probably gonna come soon, as WWE knows, fans wanted him, and obviously something, got in the way tonight.
5. Maybe that's really why Punk turned, bc I really think it'll be Cena/Punk (MITB at SS)

I don't see how Rock vs Show makes sense, so forget about that match.
Cena vs Punk is likely IMO, with the possibility of Show added to make a triple threat (Rock as special guest referee?).
Now that Punk's heel, I see him holding the title through a couple more ppv's. His title run will receive an injection of life now that he's heel, and I see him holding that title for a while longer.


PS: I like Punk, as a entertainer/wrestler, but overall, he's real cocky. I could handle cocky, but he's a Hypocrite, in so many ways. Hating on Chris Brown (who I do NOT like) for beating Rihanna, but praising Austin, who beat Debra, and giving the Hardys (Not defending them - It's an example) hell, for their poor choice drug habits, but publicly praising Scott Hall (who is also, a drug head/alcoholic). He just rubs me, the wrong way, outside, of his work. By the way, he is a great mic worker, but ANY pissed off wrestler, can get on a mic, and tell secrets, about how cutthroat the backstage is. Many do it, on Youtube shoots, because unlike Punk, they don't threaten to quit, unless they're given a green light, to bad mouth Vince, and his family, publicly, and NOT get fired.

He's openly admitted to being cocky, it's just the way he is. Some people are like that.
I don't think Punk has condoned Austin's domestic violence past or Scott Hall's drug/alcohol abuse. He's simply praised their contribution to the wrestling business, much like any of us do. Are you suggesting that we all condone Austin's domestic violence past each time we praise Austin? I don't think so.


In closing: I'm gonna get bashed, the hell out of, and read them, and laugh, because it doesn't matter. Most of you, would praise WWE, if every Raw from now on, had ONLY talking/silly skits, and no wrestling, but I'm only telling things, from a different perspective. Now, I'm no pshychic, but if I'm wrong, and Punk did turn heel, because of Rock, who just comes in, and gets top matches/title shots, so what? Just shows, they NEED Rock, because creative, can't make anyone else, a BIG enough star, or they wouldn't need Rock.

Regarding the bolded; what planet are you living on? I don't think anyone here would be happy if there was zero wrestling on Raw lol!
I agree with you, so what if Punk turned heel just to feud with Rock? I'm happy with that. It'll make for some great promos and some good matches IMO. I think after their interaction on Raw it's a given that we'll see a Punk vs Rock match at some point. and I don't think that's why WWE are bringing The Rock back in. They're bringing him in IMO because he's available and open to doing these things.
If you were Vince and The Rock comes out and says he wants to wrestle again, and then you contact him asking if he wants to do some things for WWE, and he agrees, you're not going to turn that opportunity to make money down!
WWE aren't using The Rock because they can't make new stars, they're using him to make money. Simple as that. When a guy that draws as big as The Rock is available to do some work for you, you're not going to turn that opportunity to make a lot of money down.

I'm not saying that WWE aren't making enough money without The Rock, but when it's choice between making a lot of money and making a LOT of money, you're always going to go with the latter.

MachoManFan
07-24-2012, 07:57 AM
What if, CM Punk isn't turning heel??

He's the WWE champ that WWE won't put in the main event. He's still playing second fiddle to Cena a year after he held the company to ransom and won and now Dwayne "Sometimes The Rock but mainly a bad actor" Johnson waltzes in and says he's facing the champ at the Royal Rumble. It's entirely possible that he'll come out next week and cut a promo about how he's sick of Cena and The Rock stealing his spotlight while he is the champ and leave it at that. Cena faced The Rock at 'Mania without ever turning and I'm sure Punk can not face The Rock without turning heel too.

(as a side note: John Cena will NEVER TURN HEEL as long as he is granting wishes for Make A Wish. There's a reason why you never see Kane or ADR granting wishes and it's because the kids don't ask for them. Let's just drop the idea and if it ever happens it will be a nice surprise)

BadAndy
07-24-2012, 08:15 AM
Punk turned heel by kicking the asses of the two dudes who "sold" last years Wrestlemania. This is gonna be all good and comparable, in my opinion, to Triple H's heel title run. This is all good and Punk isn't gonna drop the belt till the Rumble what with H's recent declaration that title runs need to be longer.

On a side note: I marked THEE fuck out when the A.P.A. came back.

My man, I thought the same damn thing. Let's hope.

Running the Vickie Train
07-24-2012, 08:32 AM
I love C.M. Punk as a heel, I just don't know why they are going to turn him back so soon. He's the "Voice of the Voiceless," with not a lot of faces on the Raw roster to begin with and plenty of heels why make him a heel. Don't get me wrong, I am going to cheer for him no matter what, but I kinda like a face Punk over a heel Punk.

Running the Vickie Train
07-24-2012, 08:33 AM
On a side note: I marked THEE fuck out when the A.P.A. came back.

Oh yeah, I did too. I wish JBL would come back......

King Scrapper
07-24-2012, 08:46 AM
why do you all assume punk is heel now cause he confronted the allmighty ROCK. Grow the fuck up already...phhhttt!! this shit is way too predictable. Punk is the champion, just because he confronts the Rock and tells him look i will be the champ at Royal Rumble so you will face me....now all of sudden he's a heel. He's not a heel you morons Rock wants the title so who ever is the champ at that time has to be a heel because they will face the Rock.

Why can't the Rock be a heel facing Punk who is a top face in the wwe right now. Fucking clue in would ya!!!

You sound like a babbling idiot.

King Scrapper
07-24-2012, 08:53 AM
How does anyone know, Punk turned heel, bc of The Rock, or Cena? Maybe, it's because, Stone Cold will return, and that's why. And who says, Punk will still be, WWE Champ, at the Rumble, to face Rock? I like Punk Face/Heel, but everyone hates on Rock, because he put movies 1st. Seems to me, someone IWC loves to death, Austin (Who I like too) did that tonight. Filming "Grown Ups 2", took precedent over Raw 1000. I'm not mad at Rock or Austin, I'm glad for them, but I'm only saying it, for those who hate on Rock. Where's Austin's ridicule? I doubt WWE, did NOT, try to, contact Austin. I know, they wanted him. So what, he just said NO? No, it's obvious, a movie held him up, or maybe Redneck Island (Season 2). But maybe, he's coming soon, and that's why Punk turned, because I don't think SS will be Rock/Punk, or the Rumble. I think SS will be, Cena/Punk, MITB Cash In. (News did say, they'd find a way, for Cena to keep MITB, after last night = Show's interference), and Cena will win, the WWE Title at SS, which Rock will win at RR, and Cena will reclaim, at WM 29. You might say, "They said 1 Time Only?" Did you forget WWE, tried to make everyone forget, Taker/HHH WM 17? Rock went over, so Cena, will get a turn.


(In my opinions)
1. SS will be when Cena really cashes in (News did say, they'd find a way, for him to keep it, after last night = Show's interference)
2. SS will probably be: Cena vs Punk (MITB Cash In = Cena wins)
3. Rock might not be there. Ifso, he may wrestle Show
4. Austin's probably gonna come soon, as WWE knows, fans wanted him, and obviously something, got in the way tonight.
5. Maybe that's really why Punk turned, bc I really think it'll be Cena/Punk (MITB at SS)

PS: I like Punk, as a entertainer/wrestler, but overall, he's real cocky. I could handle cocky, but he's a Hypocrite, in so many ways. Hating on Chris Brown (who I do NOT like) for beating Rihanna, but praising Austin, who beat Debra, and giving the Hardys (Not defending them - It's an example) hell, for their poor choice drug habits, but publicly praising Scott Hall (who is also, a drug head/alcoholic). He just rubs me, the wrong way, outside, of his work. By the way, he is a great mic worker, but ANY pissed off wrestler, can get on a mic, and tell secrets, about how cutthroat the backstage is. Many do it, on Youtube shoots, because unlike Punk, they don't threaten to quit, unless they're given a green light, to bad mouth Vince, and his family, publicly, and NOT get fired.

In closing: I'm gonna get bashed, the hell out of, and read them, and laugh, because it doesn't matter. Most of you, would praise WWE, if every Raw from now on, had ONLY talking/silly skits, and no wrestling, but I'm only telling things, from a different perspective. Now, I'm no pshychic, but if I'm wrong, and Punk did turn heel, because of Rock, who just comes in, and gets top matches/title shots, so what? Just shows, they NEED Rock, because creative, can't make anyone else, a BIG enough star, or they wouldn't need Rock.

Good job. Every point you made is the damn truth.

Bob Bowman
07-24-2012, 09:06 AM
It was a horrible move on WWE's part. I don't like the fact that it wasn't Cena who turned, but hey, I can't have everything I want.

Champion
07-24-2012, 09:14 AM
The CM Punk heel turn was a big shock to me. I would rather see John Cena turn heel. But CM Punk as a heel could work, if he forms a stable consisting of himself, The Big Show, Brock Lesnar, Lord Tensai, Paul Heyman and a tag team (The Miz and Damien Sandow). Here they can feud with John Cena, Triple H, Kofi Kingston and R-Truth, Rey Mysterio for a midcard title and A-Ry just to get him over a bit.

BadAndy
07-24-2012, 09:30 AM
It was a horrible move on WWE's part. I don't like the fact that it wasn't Cena who turned, but hey, I can't have everything I want.

Brilliant move. Punk has always worked best as a heel or tweener. As for Cena, I think he'll be fine if he never turns heel as long as he gets a newer, fresher gimmick.

Jerichoholic_92
07-24-2012, 10:07 AM
I hate to burst everyones bubble, but I dont think Punk is a heel!

A heel is 'the bad guy' the person people boo. This isn't going to happen, he will still be cheered by, for lack of a better phrase, the 'wrestling purists' and The Rock will be cheered by his fans. The attack was purely to give the rivalry a bit of an edge thats all, otherwise it's just the same story as Cena vs Rock. Not anymore of a heel turn than when Cena hit Rock with the AA last year. Fuel to the fire that is all.

Also would like to echo most peoples dissapointment about Austin not being there! How can you have Raw 1000 without the man who is responsible for the show still being here till this very day?

The Piper
07-24-2012, 11:03 AM
Horray! Maybe now the all the title won't be so stale now!

Dennis
07-24-2012, 11:08 AM
I hate to burst everyones bubble, but I dont think Punk is a heel!

A heel is 'the bad guy' the person people boo. This isn't going to happen, he will still be cheered by, for lack of a better phrase, the 'wrestling purists' and The Rock will be cheered by his fans. The attack was purely to give the rivalry a bit of an edge thats all, otherwise it's just the same story as Cena vs Rock. Not anymore of a heel turn than when Cena hit Rock with the AA last year. Fuel to the fire that is all.

Also would like to echo most peoples dissapointment about Austin not being there! How can you have Raw 1000 without the man who is responsible for the show still being here till this very day?
I want to challenge the bolded part. first when orton is a heel (look at any of his matches against cena late in that very storied rivalry) he was cheered by the adult fans because he wasn't stale (when cena was) but the kids hated him. and if you heard the reaction that punk got last night.. it definitely sounded like that. if you don't think attacking the rock and trying to screw cena will get you heat what will? they are the two biggest faces since austin.. what he might later attack we haven't ruled that out haha

FiascoJudoThrow
07-24-2012, 11:17 AM
I think the script/ plan originally called for a dramatic Heel turn, hence why the announce team went very quiet in an attempt to create a somber vibe. However, what ended up happening was not so clear cut.

Punk is a complex character, you could see it at the end. The introduction of 'dichotomy' CM Punk was done very well IMO. The conflict of beating an interfered with Cena, in which goes against his "best in the world' moniker vs Retaining the Title and continuing one of the longest title reigns in history. In the end, he reluctantly chose to go with the pin, but his hesitance almost cost him. I do not think we will see the hesitance again.

The DQ finished left us with a quasi cliff hanger of where this new Punk direction will go. Prove hes the best with clean wins or by keeping the title by anyway he can.

The GTS on The Rock, well Rock called out the champ at RR 13'.....we do not know who that will be, we do know the belt in on CM..so, Punk made a statement.

I like this angle..could go several different ways.

Jerichoholic_92
07-24-2012, 12:08 PM
I want to challenge the bolded part. first when orton is a heel (look at any of his matches against cena late in that very storied rivalry) he was cheered by the adult fans because he wasn't stale (when cena was) but the kids hated him. and if you heard the reaction that punk got last night.. it definitely sounded like that. if you don't think attacking the rock and trying to screw cena will get you heat what will? they are the two biggest faces since austin.. what he might later attack we haven't ruled that out haha

In days gone by absolutley that would get you heat, but since the days of Rock and Stone Cold the heel/bayface division isn't so black and white. It has moved into a grey area. They would act stereotypicaly 'bad' but would get cheered. Which is the point I made, part of the audience will cheer him, part will boo. So you can call him a heel if you so desire, but he is in the same position as Cena and Rock. Would you consider them heels?

As I said, I interpret, Heel: Bad guy who people boo. Babyface: Good guy who people cheer

Playboy Stevie V
07-24-2012, 01:32 PM
In days gone by absolutley that would get you heat, but since the days of Rock and Stone Cold the heel/bayface division isn't so black and white. It has moved into a grey area. They would act stereotypicaly 'bad' but would get cheered. Which is the point I made, part of the audience will cheer him, part will boo. So you can call him a heel if you so desire, but he is in the same position as Cena and Rock. Would you consider them heels?

As I said, I interpret, Heel: Bad guy who people boo. Babyface: Good guy who people cheer

I'm not trying to disagree with you, but your statement is intriguing. So are you saying that the crowd dictates a heel or a face? So, someone like Sandow and Vickie who get booed out of the arena by your definition is a heel. While people like DB, Punk, Cena, Ziggler, Jericho, Miz, Just for example are tweeners cause half the crowd cheers for them?

It's not a right or wrong answer in my book or a set up question. I'm genuinely curious as to your definition. I really never heard of it defined like that, so it's different seeing it from your eyes.

ParagonOfVirtue
07-24-2012, 01:50 PM
How does anyone know, Punk turned heel, bc of The Rock, or Cena? Maybe, it's because, Stone Cold will return, and that's why. And who says, Punk will still be, WWE Champ, at the Rumble, to face Rock? I like Punk Face/Heel, but everyone hates on Rock, because he put movies 1st. Seems to me, someone IWC loves to death, Austin (Who I like too) did that tonight. Filming "Grown Ups 2", took precedent over Raw 1000. I'm not mad at Rock or Austin, I'm glad for them, but I'm only saying it, for those who hate on Rock. Where's Austin's ridicule? I doubt WWE, did NOT, try to, contact Austin. I know, they wanted him. So what, he just said NO? No, it's obvious, a movie held him up, or maybe Redneck Island (Season 2). But maybe, he's coming soon, and that's why Punk turned, because I don't think SS will be Rock/Punk, or the Rumble. I think SS will be, Cena/Punk, MITB Cash In. (News did say, they'd find a way, for Cena to keep MITB, after last night = Show's interference), and Cena will win, the WWE Title at SS, which Rock will win at RR, and Cena will reclaim, at WM 29. You might say, "They said 1 Time Only?" Did you forget WWE, tried to make everyone forget, Taker/HHH WM 17? Rock went over, so Cena, will get a turn.


(In my opinions)
1. SS will be when Cena really cashes in (News did say, they'd find a way, for him to keep it, after last night = Show's interference)
2. SS will probably be: Cena vs Punk (MITB Cash In = Cena wins)
3. Rock might not be there. Ifso, he may wrestle Show
4. Austin's probably gonna come soon, as WWE knows, fans wanted him, and obviously something, got in the way tonight.
5. Maybe that's really why Punk turned, bc I really think it'll be Cena/Punk (MITB at SS)

PS: I like Punk, as a entertainer/wrestler, but overall, he's real cocky. I could handle cocky, but he's a Hypocrite, in so many ways. Hating on Chris Brown (who I do NOT like) for beating Rihanna, but praising Austin, who beat Debra, and giving the Hardys (Not defending them - It's an example) hell, for their poor choice drug habits, but publicly praising Scott Hall (who is also, a drug head/alcoholic). He just rubs me, the wrong way, outside, of his work. By the way, he is a great mic worker, but ANY pissed off wrestler, can get on a mic, and tell secrets, about how cutthroat the backstage is. Many do it, on Youtube shoots, because unlike Punk, they don't threaten to quit, unless they're given a green light, to bad mouth Vince, and his family, publicly, and NOT get fired.

In closing: I'm gonna get bashed, the hell out of, and read them, and laugh, because it doesn't matter. Most of you, would praise WWE, if every Raw from now on, had ONLY talking/silly skits, and no wrestling, but I'm only telling things, from a different perspective. Now, I'm no pshychic, but if I'm wrong, and Punk did turn heel, because of Rock, who just comes in, and gets top matches/title shots, so what? Just shows, they NEED Rock, because creative, can't make anyone else, a BIG enough star, or they wouldn't need Rock.

Comma's much?

jonod
07-24-2012, 02:05 PM
So we've all seen it, dvr'ed it, or read about it. My question is, can they keep Punk strong as a heel or will they make him weak? We all know how good he is as a heel. I just hope that he remains a fighting champion and they don't make him cowardly. They essentially just took the whole storyline from TNA with Roode by making Punk question his decision making. I don't mind as long as we get the Punk we all know and love.

Actually I'd say it was quite similar to his original (wwe) heel turn on smackdown a few years ago. he made a questionable decision against Jeff Hardy and seemed confused for weeks before finally out and out attacking hardy so you could say the Roode turn was borrowing that! :P

Jerichoholic_92
07-24-2012, 02:16 PM
I'm not trying to disagree with you, but your statement is intriguing. So are you saying that the crowd dictates a heel or a face? So, someone like Sandow and Vickie who get booed out of the arena by your definition is a heel. While people like DB, Punk, Cena, Ziggler, Jericho, Miz, Just for example are tweeners cause half the crowd cheers for them?

It's not a right or wrong answer in my book or a set up question. I'm genuinely curious as to your definition. I really never heard of it defined like that, so it's different seeing it from your eyes.

In this day age yes I think the crowd dictates. Wrestlers used to be one or the other, heel would win using dirty tactics and babyfaces would be the hero who fought with honour and dignity, that was how it always used to be. But fans, such as oursleves , now are 'smarter'. We realize they are all just playing a part and we tend to cheer for who's work we enjoy the best.

We have seen people like Eddie Guerrero use his 'Lie, Cheat and Steal' and love him for it, I know I did. These, back in the early 90's and 80's and so on were bad guy traits, but all of sudden it has become cool.

Thats why I think it is hard to really differentiate between the two now. The old formula doesn't work aswell anymore.

I think we can all agree that the heel is the person the crowd is 'supposed' to want to see get beat up, and the babyface is the person the fans are 'supposed' to want to beat up the villan. But fans now like the badboy tactics, and dont like the goody goody tactics (well half the crowd anyway.) So really in this day and age, the fans cheer for what they like, and boo what they dont. They are telling the wrestlers who they like and don't, not the wrestlers telling the fans who they should like and not like.

Cabers
07-24-2012, 02:32 PM
His best work has been as a heel so i am really excited to see what he gets upto!

scribbler_jones
07-24-2012, 02:34 PM
I'm feeling the Punk turn myself. Like a lot of others no doubt, I feel that while Punk made a great face, he was being held back. I'd like to see his leash loosened up - or hopefully taken off (I can dream...) Maybe this will mean the return of the infamous pipe bombs...

Playboy Stevie V
07-24-2012, 02:48 PM
In this day age yes I think the crowd dictates. Wrestlers used to be one or the other, heel would win using dirty tactics and babyfaces would be the hero who fought with honour and dignity, that was how it always used to be. But fans, such as oursleves , now are 'smarter'. We realize they are all just playing a part and we tend to cheer for who's work we enjoy the best.

We have seen people like Eddie Guerrero use his 'Lie, Cheat and Steal' and love him for it, I know I did. These, back in the early 90's and 80's and so on were bad guy traits, but all of sudden it has become cool.

Thats why I think it is hard to really differentiate between the two now. The old formula doesn't work aswell anymore.

I think we can all agree that the heel is the person the crowd is 'supposed' to want to see get beat up, and the babyface is the person the fans are 'supposed' to want to beat up the villan. But fans now like the badboy tactics, and dont like the goody goody tactics (well half the crowd anyway.) So really in this day and age, the fans cheer for what they like, and boo what they dont. They are telling the wrestlers who they like and don't, not the wrestlers telling the fans who they should like and not like.

I hear you. It started in the AE when SCSA and the Rock where basically heels that got cheered but they were fighting against their bosses. It was innovating and turned the establishment of heel and face upside down.

But I still think there is a definite line of heel and face, cooperately, even though US fans, for the most part are smarter and cheer for who we want. This line is kind of clear in the sense that they will tag Cena up with another "face" like Rey instead of tagging him up with ADR. If there was really no face or heel they would just tag up anybody. Also the feuds and matches for the most part are cooperate created faces vs heels.

I understand what you are saying totally and Punk will still be cheered IMO because he has his supporters. Older fans seem to not care if their fav wrestler turns face or heel. But because of this heel turn of Punk's he will most likely be fresher and be more vicious in the ring and on the mic. He will be the antagonistic as*hole and the perpetrator (a heels M.O.) instead of the victim (face M.O.) His older fans will still like him regardless.

Again I see your point and if you are judging from the crowd then yes, he is no different from Cena. But he prob will be booked way different than Cena, as a "heel" regardless of his supporters IMO.

Again your point is valid if your are judging face and heel out of kayfabe.

Dennis
07-24-2012, 04:20 PM
In days gone by absolutley that would get you heat, but since the days of Rock and Stone Cold the heel/bayface division isn't so black and white. It has moved into a grey area. They would act stereotypicaly 'bad' but would get cheered. Which is the point I made, part of the audience will cheer him, part will boo. So you can call him a heel if you so desire, but he is in the same position as Cena and Rock. Would you consider them heels?

As I said, I interpret, Heel: Bad guy who people boo. Babyface: Good guy who people cheer
so at that point is cena not a true face? because if you watch raw on a weekly basis you would know he isn't popular with all fans.. and back in the day when rvd was defined as a heel by pwi standards, he won the most popluar wrestler award what would imply that he was doing bad things and was also the most popular wrestler of the year. I have always defined a heel as pwi just the antagonist to the obvious face.. who does things that if real would cause you to dislike a person. I still like punk but because I know wrestling is fake, if not I would wonder why he hit a guy who was just helping out a guy from getting blindsided unprovoked that's a heel move.

Jerichoholic_92
07-24-2012, 05:41 PM
I hear you. It started in the AE when SCSA and the Rock where basically heels that got cheered but they were fighting against their bosses. It was innovating and turned the establishment of heel and face upside down.

But I still think there is a definite line of heel and face, cooperately, even though US fans, for the most part are smarter and cheer for who we want. This line is kind of clear in the sense that they will tag Cena up with another "face" like Rey instead of tagging him up with ADR. If there was really no face or heel they would just tag up anybody. Also the feuds and matches for the most part are cooperate created faces vs heels.

I understand what you are saying totally and Punk will still be cheered IMO because he has his supporters. Older fans seem to not care if their fav wrestler turns face or heel. But because of this heel turn of Punk's he will most likely be fresher and be more vicious in the ring and on the mic. He will be the antagonistic as*hole and the perpetrator (a heels M.O.) instead of the victim (face M.O.) His older fans will still like him regardless.

Again I see your point and if you are judging from the crowd then yes, he is no different from Cena. But he prob will be booked way different than Cena, as a "heel" regardless of his supporters IMO.

Again your point is valid if your are judging face and heel out of kayfabe.

Don't get me wrong I agree with you there are still heels and babyfaces, I just meant the situation with Punk is he will still be cheered by a large portion of the crowd. I didnt mean there are no more faces and heels at all. Sorry if it came out like that. Yes I agree there are traditional babyfaces and heels. Just in some situations now I dont think it is as clear, such as the case with Cena and now Punk apparently.

My two points I was trying to get across where
1. Just because Punk attacked Rock doesn't mean he has turned heel (he might well have we don't know yet, most likely find out next week) In todays wrestling world it wouldn't be strange for a babyface to act this way.
2. The fans now will choose who they hate and who they love. I was just getting across the point that if a heel is who we boo, he doesn't necessarily have to act like a classic heel.

Sorry again if I wasn't clear before.

Jerichoholic_92
07-24-2012, 05:52 PM
so at that point is cena not a true face? because if you watch raw on a weekly basis you would know he isn't popular with all fans.. and back in the day when rvd was defined as a heel by pwi standards, he won the most popluar wrestler award what would imply that he was doing bad things and was also the most popular wrestler of the year. I have always defined a heel as pwi just the antagonist to the obvious face.. who does things that if real would cause you to dislike a person. I still like punk but because I know wrestling is fake, if not I would wonder why he hit a guy who was just helping out a guy from getting blindsided unprovoked that's a heel move.

Well it's purely how you decide to define Heel and babyface. I dont think there is a right and wrong. I see a heel as someone the crowd doesn't like and wants to boo. And a babyface as the opposite. You pay money to watch the guy you don't like get beat up. In this day and age that doesn't have to be the person who acts traditionally bad, by attacking people etc. Thats just how I percieve the buisness to work thats all. Like I said just our own interpretation.

Playboy Stevie V
07-24-2012, 06:16 PM
Don't get me wrong I agree with you there are still heels and babyfaces, I just meant the situation with Punk is he will still be cheered by a large portion of the crowd. I didnt mean there are no more faces and heels at all. Sorry if it came out like that. Yes I agree there are traditional babyfaces and heels. Just in some situations now I dont think it is as clear, such as the case with Cena and now Punk apparently.
My two points I was trying to get across where
1. Just because Punk attacked Rock doesn't mean he has turned heel (he might well have we don't know yet, most likely find out next week) In todays wrestling world it wouldn't be strange for a babyface to act this way.
2. The fans now will choose who they hate and who they love. I was just getting across the point that if a heel is who we boo, he doesn't necessarily have to act like a classic heel.

Sorry again if I wasn't clear before.

No apology needed and i agree. He's way over and will be cheered regardless. I'm a fan of heel tactics and douchebaggery, so I will be cheering for punk. But i think its obvious after what Cole and Jerry said that the company is moving on the heel turn. It's been coming with all the Cena being in the main event over him talk from Eve and Show.

ScottishWrestlingFan
07-24-2012, 06:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n_G-DQDd9U

My opinion is that CM Punk is an awesome heel, so this rivalry with the rock could be amazing if he can rip him to shread and the promos are going to be amazing. CM Punk should stay heel untill wrestlemania where he could hopefuly wrestle Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Thoughts?

If Punk brings more great promos to the table he should be able to put over how artificial and forced the Rock is. Some of Punk's facial expressions are enough to own The Rock imo.

Kenny Kaos
07-24-2012, 06:29 PM
I'm not 100% sure he's a heel:

He looked conflicted when he went to cover Cena
He didn't smirk after he laid out the Rock
He didn't smirk and looked conflicted leaving the ring

Don't care if he's face or heel, still cheer the guy, he's great

BadAndy
07-24-2012, 07:14 PM
My two points I was trying to get across where
1. Just because Punk attacked Rock doesn't mean he has turned heel (he might well have we don't know yet, most likely find out next week) In todays wrestling world it wouldn't be strange for a babyface to act this way.
2. The fans now will choose who they hate and who they love. I was just getting across the point that if a heel is who we boo, he doesn't necessarily have to act like a classic heel.

Sorry again if I wasn't clear before.

While this might be true, you overlook the things that happened before. The tongue wagging, mocking Cena's "you can't see me" and the motioning GTS were all heelish tendencies for Punk. I can recall very little where he made the signal for the GTS during his face title reign. The fact that he also stopped the guy that was there to save Punk is also a good hint. I agree with whoever said that maybe it was supposed to be a more obvious heel turn and Punk turned it into more of something that was weighing heavily on himself. Finally, the smirk at the end as he walked off was the nail in the coffin.

bearkg88
07-24-2012, 07:51 PM
Surprised that there was no Stone Cold...I didn't see it coming, and I am INCREDIBLY dissappointed at the WWE's decision to make CM Punk a heel. This SuperCena shit was almost over, but yet again, Cena as champ=never turning heel...somehow CM Punk, their top guy...can though. They could have flipped the WWE landscape upside down by making Cena a heel when he was champ...but they didn't want to sully Cena's image. It's fine if they do that too Punk though...sure.

Dude. They didn't sully Punk's image. People have been complaining that Punk has gotten stale as a mic, that he hasn't been as impactful on the mic, and I think almost everyone would agree that Punk is 10x better as a heel than face. Personally I am glad that we will see Punk as a heel. As for how long I will be glad with that, is depending on where they go with this angle. But they definitely haven't sullied Punk's image.

goodomens
07-24-2012, 10:01 PM
maybe he's had enough of the iwc members saying he's gone stale and generic. haha. unlikely but the guy is awesome face or heel.

*i hope he does turn heel and give us that "the devils greatest trick was convincing the world he doesn't exist" promo

http://youtu.be/HreA5N16LUc

watch this epic promo

Dennis
07-24-2012, 10:12 PM
Dude. They didn't sully Punk's image. People have been complaining that Punk has gotten stale as a mic, that he hasn't been as impactful on the mic, and I think almost everyone would agree that Punk is 10x better as a heel than face. Personally I am glad that we will see Punk as a heel. As for how long I will be glad with that, is depending on where they go with this angle. But they definitely haven't sullied Punk's image.
I agree for what that is worth. as long as we don't have a straight edge society but instead a edgy punk who drops pipe bombs... I don't think anyone would dislike that.. even the hardest to please of the iwc

Rick BoA
07-24-2012, 11:11 PM
CM Punk as a heel is the dogs bollocks! Just look at his stint as the "Straight Edge Saviour". He had great mic skills, brilliant in - ring work and was able to carry what was a sub - standard stable in the form of the "Straight Edge Society".


SES was a complete Joke. Punk cannot carry a stable and the only thing on the mic he ever said was "I am straight edge and you are not so im better than you". Big whoop. He was a pretty good face, but historically he has been a nobody heel.

Rick BoA
07-24-2012, 11:13 PM
If Punk brings more great promos to the table he should be able to put over how artificial and forced the Rock is. Some of Punk's facial expressions are enough to own The Rock imo.

10 years ago Punk would be the guy carrying the rocks bags. He has nothing on the rock, in the ring or on the mic. Rocky wasnt the best wrestler, sure. However he was better then punk has ever been.

Dennis
07-25-2012, 12:29 AM
10 years ago Punk would be the guy carrying the rocks bags. He has nothing on the rock, in the ring or on the mic. Rocky wasnt the best wrestler, sure. However he was better then punk has ever been.
interesting... are you saying that punk as an in ring wrestler is not on the same level as the rock? as of today?

goodomens
07-25-2012, 12:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreA5N16LUc
his greatest promo IMO. next week maybe?

Dennis
07-25-2012, 01:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HreA5N16LUc
his greatest promo IMO. next week maybe?
that is a great promo... thanks for the link.. I don't think he is going to be this heel again.. but if he is that will make for some epic tv

Yes2J
07-25-2012, 01:03 AM
You know after re-watching the ending of the Raw 1000, I noticed something: THE HYPOCRISY OF THE CASUAL, YET SOMEHOW EVERY-DAY WWE FAN...
Right before the "Summer of Punk" there was a little kayfabe promo known as "The First Pipebomb" (or whatever). In that promo, CM Punk described how he was sickened that Cena vs. Rock was headlining 'Mania instead of himself...who was at the time CHAMPION (which was in it's own right ridiculous). In that promo he also blasted The Rock for kissing ass...which personally didn't even sit well with me. More over, however, the crowd REVERED him for those words!
Now, the following year, he lays out both headliners that he was cheered for 'speaking the truth' out against, and is now a heel?
There was a lot of booing too.
I'll be completely honest, my first reaction was "Not Rocky!" because I will die a huge Rock mark...though in recent years I have both gained and lost respect in and out of the ring. However, after a few seconds I had a huge grin on my face (the first time I watched it) because I knew that CM Punk had done what he set out to do all along. He proved that he was better than both The Rock and Cena...which would basically make him the best in the WORLD. When he faces Stone Cold at 'Mania (which I still highly suspect), then we will know for sure...but he trumped last years 'Mania HEADLINERS...well done on his part.

CricketTragic
07-25-2012, 05:40 AM
I saw the funniest comment in the live feed area for Raw. Somebody saying that they knew Punk was going to turn heel. Like it wasn't a surprise. Their comment for how they knew? "He did nothing while Cena was getting pummeled by Big Show." How dumb of a comment is this??? If they had said something about earlier in the show fine, but to say they called it while it's happening??? That makes no sense. I can tell you when someone is going to sneeze when they start scrunching up their face. Move over John Edwards, we've got a real psychic here.

Okay, I'm done with the soapbox. Punk will excel at being a heel as usual. It will be interesting to see a heel Punk without a stable. I don't think we've had that for quite some time (I feel like he was technically a tweener by the time he did his pipebomb).

Well I saw it happening as it nearly unfolded and I will explain how

Before the match started I honestly thought SuperCena would prevail as they could not have Punk be champion at the end of Raw 1000

Then at the start out of nowhere a random comment by Michael Cole about how Cena cant win the match via disqualification got my ears burning.

then the comment Punk made on WWE.COM that i was unaware of before about how he will make history tonight against Cena seemed very similar to the Punk lead Nexus shock

This was confirmed for me when Cena hit the attitude adjustment to a non watching ref and I thought hang on, something big is going to happen and at this point I thought Punk was going to turn heel.

After Show hit Cena I thought ok I may be right but as soon as Punk was conflicted I knew it was coming and man was it exciting

Am I Psychic? Absolutely not but I watch to much WWE to know when they are about to change something up aka a Heel turn

Jerichoholic_92
07-25-2012, 07:30 AM
No apology needed and i agree. He's way over and will be cheered regardless. I'm a fan of heel tactics and douchebaggery, so I will be cheering for punk. But i think its obvious after what Cole and Jerry said that the company is moving on the heel turn. It's been coming with all the Cena being in the main event over him talk from Eve and Show.

Well thats true. Only time will tell I guess

Jerichoholic_92
07-25-2012, 07:32 AM
While this might be true, you overlook the things that happened before. The tongue wagging, mocking Cena's "you can't see me" and the motioning GTS were all heelish tendencies for Punk. I can recall very little where he made the signal for the GTS during his face title reign. The fact that he also stopped the guy that was there to save Punk is also a good hint. I agree with whoever said that maybe it was supposed to be a more obvious heel turn and Punk turned it into more of something that was weighing heavily on himself. Finally, the smirk at the end as he walked off was the nail in the coffin.

I am not saying he is or isn't a heel, all I mean is we aren't sure yet. Hopefully things will become clearer on Monday

BadAndy
07-25-2012, 08:41 AM
SES was a complete Joke. Punk cannot carry a stable and the only thing on the mic he ever said was "I am straight edge and you are not so im better than you". Big whoop. He was a pretty good face, but historically he has been a nobody heel.

Ah I should've guessed it. You look for a wrestler to have that catchphrase like The Rock. I'm guessing you're a Rock fan from your next post about him carrying The Rock's bags. The Rock goes out there and says a word to get the audience chanting that one word. Then he'll use that word for the next, well, rest of his career. Punk doesn't have to rely on a catchphrase. He comes out and gives an incredible promo that involves an intricate detail of what he's thinking, what's going on with the other wrestlers, what the audience is thinking, and just to play mind games. Not every wrestler has to come out and give a catchphrase like Rocky. By your definition, his time with the SES would have been a failure. If you're listening for the phrase then you'll never find it. If you look at some of the best wrestlers from the AE and since, very few have relied so heavily on catchphrases alone like The Rock has. SCSA, Jericho, HHH, Edge, and Christian are just a few that will deliver amazing promos that might have a catchphrase thrown in there but have incredible depth to what they said. With The Rock you could almost time every moment he was going to say that given word or phrase. If you can't see that in Punk, then you're blinded by something. Maybe just blind to real talent.

BadAndy
07-25-2012, 08:44 AM
Well I saw it happening as it nearly unfolded and I will explain how

Before the match started I honestly thought SuperCena would prevail as they could not have Punk be champion at the end of Raw 1000

Then at the start out of nowhere a random comment by Michael Cole about how Cena cant win the match via disqualification got my ears burning.

then the comment Punk made on WWE.COM that i was unaware of before about how he will make history tonight against Cena seemed very similar to the Punk lead Nexus shock

This was confirmed for me when Cena hit the attitude adjustment to a non watching ref and I thought hang on, something big is going to happen and at this point I thought Punk was going to turn heel.

After Show hit Cena I thought ok I may be right but as soon as Punk was conflicted I knew it was coming and man was it exciting

Am I Psychic? Absolutely not but I watch to much WWE to know when they are about to change something up aka a Heel turn

Hey, that works for me. I'm saying the person that said they called it when he turned his back and did nothing while Show pummeled him didn't "call it" because it was already happening. I didn't see or think about some of the things you said but during the match I made a comment on here that Punk had some heelish things going on with some mannerisms in the ring. There was a guy on here that said he was calling a Punk heel turn before the match and was totally right. Some called it for valid reasons, just not the bozo I was referring to.

Viperfish
07-25-2012, 11:37 AM
I don't necessarily think it's a heel turn. I think it will end up being a heel turn just because WWE is so black and white about these things, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a heel turn. Rock says he's getting a title match at the Royal Rumble and is going up against whoever is champion. CM Punk had a match with Cena and Cena didn't win. CM Punk plans to keep that title until Royal Rumble, so that's CM Punk's rebuttal against the Rock. No words, just throw the gauntlet down.

Actually if he makes it clear in a promo that he did that to the Rock because he overheard the conversation between Rock and Cena about the title match at the Rumble and how the Rock is looking forward to a rematch with Cena, then I think Punk can still be a face in an Austin-like way. If he says that he did that because Rock should be concerning himself with Punk and not a fruity pebble, then I don't see a heel turn in there. That's Punk de-immasculating himself.

Yes2J
07-25-2012, 08:31 PM
I don't necessarily think it's a heel turn. I think it will end up being a heel turn just because WWE is so black and white about these things, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a heel turn. Rock says he's getting a title match at the Royal Rumble and is going up against whoever is champion. CM Punk had a match with Cena and Cena didn't win. CM Punk plans to keep that title until Royal Rumble, so that's CM Punk's rebuttal against the Rock. No words, just throw the gauntlet down.

Actually if he makes it clear in a promo that he did that to the Rock because he overheard the conversation between Rock and Cena about the title match at the Rumble and how the Rock is looking forward to a rematch with Cena, then I think Punk can still be a face in an Austin-like way. If he says that he did that because Rock should be concerning himself with Punk and not a fruity pebble, then I don't see a heel turn in there. That's Punk de-immasculating himself.
Those were my exact thoughts...and like I said in a rant I made somewhere on this forum:
Punk's Legendary promo ripped into not only the company, but Cena and The Rock. He called bullshit on the fact that for some reason even though he had the strap Rock/Cena was headlining Wrestlemania. The crowd cheered him. Now he trumps them both, on arguably the biggest show to date in his title reign, and he gets boooed? I don't fully buy it. I hope they keep him Tweener with more of a Heel potential versus just flipping him.

Great One
07-25-2012, 11:13 PM
I guess everyone is saying he's heel now after he GTS The Rock. I liked him heel but I also liked him face. I mean his fued with Daniel Bryan and Chris Jericho was pretty epic in my book. And I just thought he was going to be face for a long time. But if the Rock beats CM Punk and John Cena wins the Royal Rumble, and The Rock and John Cena face each other again I'll be happy bc John Cena will whoop his candy ass this time!! Thoughts?

Rockstar83
07-25-2012, 11:19 PM
to be honest I was getting tired of Baby face Punk, glad he turned Heel.

thedag
07-25-2012, 11:23 PM
http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/community/showthread.php?22505-CM-Punk-Heel-Turn-Thread

Great One
07-25-2012, 11:26 PM
http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/community/showthread.php?22505-CM-Punk-Heel-Turn-Thread

yeah I noticed after I posted it, I don"t know how to merge them or whatever

URATOOL
07-27-2012, 02:29 AM
and team up Punk with DB? Now they are both apparently heels it's only a matter of time.

Krysys
07-27-2012, 02:45 AM
I say 2 weeks

URATOOL
07-27-2012, 02:59 AM
I say 2 weeks

That long? I was half expecting it on Smackdown.

jai
07-27-2012, 04:08 AM
Before you know it, they'll team on a regular basis.

Wade Barrett 1979
07-27-2012, 04:09 AM
It won't be immediate but it'll probably be sooner rather than later.

URATOOL
07-27-2012, 04:16 AM
We haven't seen someone hold one of the big two belts and the tag team titles for a while........just saying........

FXK2I
07-27-2012, 04:18 AM
Summerslam 2012

Punk & Bryan Vs Rock & Cena

The Brown One
07-27-2012, 04:38 AM
Summerslam 2012

Punk & Bryan Vs Rock & Cena

YES! YES! YES!
It would save us from Bryan being lost in the shuffle or worse, losing to another celebrity (even if it's the awesome Charlie Sheen). They teamed up Truth and Miz, so why not Bryan and Punk?

I'd rather see it at Survivor Series though, and if Punks not champion, as he can't be in this if hes defending the WWE title.

FXK2I
07-27-2012, 04:44 AM
YES! YES! YES!
It would save us from Bryan being lost in the shuffle or worse, losing to another celebrity (even if it's the awesome Charlie Sheen). They teamed up Truth and Miz, so why not Bryan and Punk?

I'd rather see it at Survivor Series though, and if Punks not champion, as he can't be in this if hes defending the WWE title.

Summerslam or Survivor Series, it doesn't matter to me.

As long as it happens, I'm satisfied.

johnnydropkicks
07-27-2012, 05:06 AM
I don't see it happening without obvious match implications and stressing it that they don't like teaming together. And I think that one of them is going to SD! Probably Brian. Unless they want to turn brian. but I think that maybe they like brian for feuding with orton. and Cena will win the title off a heel punk.

Mr. Ziggles
07-27-2012, 05:47 AM
D~Bry & CM Punk VS The Rock and Cena

(with Sheen as special guest enforcer)

Just to get a celeb on the PPV as WWE seem to like doing that.

Tommy Thunder
07-27-2012, 06:21 AM
Summerslam 2012

Punk & Bryan Vs Rock & Cena

Wouldn't put it past WWE to do this match.

But yeah, I see Punk and Bryan teaming sooner rather than later.

Lowki
07-27-2012, 09:12 AM
It doesn't have to be undone. AJ as GM gives them the opportunity to have her piss off both Punk and Bryan, forcing them to team against her. As long as they mention the fact that they hate each other, but hate AJ more, it would work out.
The whole punk/bryan feud was about Bryan doing anything to win the title. If he was to go for sheamus' title on the other hand, that would mean he's now got no reason to even go against punk, which wouldn't really take anything away from their past few months.

Dennis
07-27-2012, 11:53 AM
Summerslam 2012

Punk & Bryan Vs Rock & Cena
if punk and bryan team up haas and benjamin need to stop calling themselves the worlds greatest tag team. the only downside to this match is I'm pretty sure rock and cena would take it.

Rick BoA
07-27-2012, 09:30 PM
BLAH BLAH BLAH


So I take it you are a punk mark. You probably thought Eddie Guerro was an amazing wrestler as well. You are in the group of fools that think that just because someone came from a nothing promotion and uses a few wristlocks means they are an amazing wrestler. You probably think that just because Punk came out and cut a scripted promo of how he is mad that he thinks he was overlooked (even though he had multiple failed title reigns, stables and headlined multiple main events) means he is amazing at cutting promo's. You are the kind of person who believes that he is smarter then everyone else and tries to be the unaverage fan and obsess over a sub-par wrestler.
Here is a fact. The Rock is one of the top 5 overall wrestlers of all time. He, unlike Punk, was entertaining to watch and involved the crowd, the same people who decide is worth pushing, in all of his promo's. If you honestly think that Punk is better in any aspect then the rock WAS you are a stupid, delusional mark.

BadAndy
07-27-2012, 10:25 PM
So I take it you are a punk mark. You probably thought Eddie Guerro was an amazing wrestler as well. You are in the group of fools that think that just because someone came from a nothing promotion and uses a few wristlocks means they are an amazing wrestler. You probably think that just because Punk came out and cut a scripted promo of how he is mad that he thinks he was overlooked (even though he had multiple failed title reigns, stables and headlined multiple main events) means he is amazing at cutting promo's. You are the kind of person who believes that he is smarter then everyone else and tries to be the unaverage fan and obsess over a sub-par wrestler.
Here is a fact. The Rock is one of the top 5 overall wrestlers of all time. He, unlike Punk, was entertaining to watch and involved the crowd, the same people who decide is worth pushing, in all of his promo's. If you honestly think that Punk is better in any aspect then the rock WAS you are a stupid, delusional mark.

Hehehe, if you look in the TNA section I was just talking about how I like Chavo more than I liked Eddie so no not on that level of thinking. Allow me to say a few things. First, I don't consider myself a mark for anybody. I like great wrestling and since the SES have found Punk to be just that. Second, I've never seen any Ring of Honor and don't really know much about the independent wrestlers that everybody goes crazy about. I'm not a huge fan of the promos I've seen from Dean Ambrose in the independent circuit, however have been impressed with some matches I've seen in FCW. I've never seen a Punk or Bryanson ROH match. The extent of my watching wrestling has been going over to a friend's house to watch Monday Nitro for years and watching WWE since Jericho came over. Third, I consider myself to be a very logical and well educated person. I didn't even know who Colt Cabana was when Punk mentioned him in his pipe bomb. I thought that promo was brilliantly done, didn't know how legit it was, but give props to him and WWE for making it so realistic. I am far from being the smartest person here, but I am smart. I have my master's degree to prove that. :D Finally, The Rock is one of the top 5 ENTERTAINERS. He sure is nowhere near the top in wrestling. He is about as textbook with his promos and in-ring ability as anyone could be. I found The Rock funny to watch back in the day but never enjoyed him in the ring. I go back and watch promos where they tried to have The Rock do something that wasn't his 5 usual catchphrases and it was as uncomfortable to watch as walking in on your parents being intimate. It is terribly goofy too. I'll cut the wound even deeper. The Rock will never have the in-ring skills or ability to go off script like SCSA or HHH. Pipe bomb!

Fan4Now
07-30-2012, 04:16 AM
So, Jim Ross tweeted, "@CMPunk (https://twitter.com/CMPunk) has questions to answer on Raw according to some. I'm not 1 of them. Is Punk a villain? I think not. @TheRock (https://twitter.com/TheRock) isn't complaining." IMO, by JR tweeting this, it's not a guess, he knows, they probably, asked him to tweet it, which is pathetic, bc that shows, they F'd up, & ppl are looking forward, to Punk as a heel, (bc he sure did act, like one.) so they ask, JR to tweet this, so we won't be disappointed, for those, who may have been looking forward to Punk as heel. So, obviously, WWE's insulting fan's intelligence AGAIN! Punk had several heel tactics. 1. Not helping Cena, with Show, 2. clotheslining The Rock, as he was helping, the good guy, Cena, 3. Pinning a beaten Cena, after Show destroyed him, 4. Several heel facial expressions, during the match. I like Punk, face or heel, but WWE should've known, they don't have enough star power, to turn Punk heel. My favorite, of all time, Chris Jericho, won't be the big thing Punk is. He could/would/should be, but he's always been booked less than his best, if you ask me. (Case in point, Punk told Jericho, "You were great, but you were never the man, like how I'm the man") I think Jericho could be, but they just never put him, at that level, even being undisputed champ, beating Rock/Austin. He was booked, less than his best, IMO.) Plus Rock isn't gonna, be there often, so they need Punk, & Pebbles, to be the two big babyfaces. If he's not heel, I don't understand, the s/l, from Raw then. Even goody 2 shoes Lawler, was questioning him, & said, "He turned his back, on everyone", like they always say, when a face turns heel. Plus, I know, if JR was at commentary, (I know it's scripted), but he would've been questioning it too. Several heel tactics, and JR says: "According to some, Punk has questions to answer, but I'm not 1 of them." I know, if JR were there, he'd have been yelling/complaining, probably, more than Lawler. My point/guess is, WWE didn't give a very compelling show, so to get ppl talking, they pulled either, a phony heel turn, with all the theatrics of one, just to say, "No, he's still good", or they realized, they F'd up, bc they don't create, enough star power, to turn, one of their biggest faces heel. Only, my opinion. If I'm wrong, & JR's trying to throw a swerve, then I'll admit, I was wrong, but they know, they led ppl, one way, & now they seem to be back peddling, on the idea. I'm just asking, if Punk's not heel, then wtf was that? I know, good guys, go at each other, & get each other back, which could be, the case with Rock & Punk, but Punk also let Show demolish Cena, & tried to pin a beaten good guy, that's fine with me, but that's not how WWE USUALLY, portrays their good guys.

So, what's you guys/ladies opinions, on this???

Wade Barrett 1979
07-30-2012, 04:27 AM
Or could it be fans jumping to conclusions again because smarks are so knowledgeable and know how things should be done!

Fan4Now
07-30-2012, 04:53 AM
Or could it be fans jumping to conclusions again because smarks are so knowledgeable and know how things should be done!


Yeah, I guess, it could be that, and I did say, if I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but there were several variables, of Punk turning heel, and if JR tweets, something like that, then I think, he's telling fans, whoa, what makes you think Punk's a villian? Well, JR, there are several things. What's also funny, is this means, you were wrong too, bc you posted this, in a thread, last week.---> "I predicted Punk turning heel even before he turned face." And this ---> "It won't be immediate but it'll probably be sooner rather than later.", the latter, in reply, to someone posting, "How long before, Punk & DB team up?" So, they had you believing, Punk turned heel. So, I guess Smarks, are so knowledgeable. Now, for some of those, I remember reading, who did say, they didn't think Punk turned, they can be condescending, but you weren't one of them, so sorry. You thought he turned, like me, & most other fans, but maybe he didn't. I just feel like, they're insulting our intelligence again.

Wade Barrett 1979
07-30-2012, 05:06 AM
Yeah, I guess, it could be that, and I did say, if I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but there were several variables, of Punk turning heel, and if JR tweets, something like that, then I think, he's telling fans, whoa, what makes you think Punk's a villian? Well, JR, there are several things. What's also funny, is this means, you were wrong too, bc you posted this, in a thread, last week.---> "I predicted Punk turning heel even before he turned face." And this ---> "It won't be immediate but it'll probably be sooner rather than later.", the latter, in reply, to someone posting, "How long before, Punk & DB team up?" So, they had you believing, Punk turned heel. So, I guess Smarks, are so knowledgeable. Now, for some of those, I remember reading, who did say, they didn't think Punk turned, they can be condescending, but you weren't one of them, so sorry. You thought he turned, like me, & most other fans, but maybe he didn't. I just feel like, they're insulting our intelligence again.

So there was no trace of sarcasm in my posts? I must try harder.

Or it could be a double bluff and he is a heel. Or JR could be posting truthfully what he thinks, rather than kayfabe as most Twatter users do.

Fan4Now
07-30-2012, 05:15 AM
So there was no trace of sarcasm in my posts? I must try harder.

Or it could be a double bluff and he is a heel. Or JR could be posting truthfully what he thinks, rather than kayfabe as most Twatter users do.

I wasn't trying, to insult you, Bro. I just think, they're insulting, our intelligence again, and I for one, hate when they do that. If Punk remains face, it's cool with me, but if he's turning heel, then one, or the other. He also, worked a house show, as a face, so JR must be right, he seemingly, turned heel Monday, but he didn't???

Wade Barrett 1979
07-30-2012, 07:44 AM
I wasn't trying, to insult you, Bro. I just think, they're insulting, our intelligence again, and I for one, hate when they do that. If Punk remains face, it's cool with me, but if he's turning heel, then one, or the other. He also, worked a house show, as a face, so JR must be right, he seemingly, turned heel Monday, but he didn't???

I know chief, don't worry I never get offended.

I think in all reality you just have to accept that's the way they operate sometimes, I wouldn't overtly get wound up by it.

tombstone13
07-30-2012, 10:11 PM
Ok, I was all for a CM Punk heel turn. But seriously? The way they played it out tonight was just a joke. They make him look like a coward. I know Heels are generally all about finding ways to make things easier. But We all know how strongly Punk played that best in the world role. Now he is out there complaining about AJ making a triple threat match. They should have made him a strong Heel saying he didn't care and that he would beat anybody they put in front of him. I know it may be to early for me to be judging how they are going with his heel turn. But so far, NOOOO! NOOO! NOOO!
Thoughts???

Amerinaine
07-30-2012, 10:12 PM
I imagine this will get merged.

Also, I really don't think he came off as a coward so much as frustrated.

BadAndy
07-30-2012, 10:13 PM
Ok, I was all for a CM Punk heel turn. But seriously? The way they played it out tonight was just a joke. They make him look like a coward. I know Heels are generally all about finding ways to make things easier. But We all know how strongly Punk played that best in the world role. Now he is out there complaining about AJ making a triple threat match. They should have made him a strong Heel saying he didn't care and that he would beat anybody they put in front of him. I know it may be to early for me to be judging how they are going with his heel turn. But so far, NOOOO! NOOO! NOOO!
Thoughts???

I don't think he looks like a coward at all. He looks bitter to me. Bitter at the fact that he hasn't been getting the face time he deserves as the champion. I kind of like the angle after him holding the title for so long and not being the main event. It's something different than they've done before and he looked more vicious to me than anything else.

tombstone13
07-30-2012, 10:19 PM
I don't think he looks like a coward at all. He looks bitter to me. Bitter at the fact that he hasn't been getting the face time he deserves as the champion. I kind of like the angle after him holding the title for so long and not being the main event. It's something different than they've done before and he looked more vicious to me than anything else.


No, I agree with you. This was kind of my first post so I was just going at it.
But at the same time I feel like creative just seems so indecisive about how to go along with his heel turn you know? They could have had it so much better. If he is going to be angry be more lashed out about it. He had something going at first when he came out and was talking to Lawler. All that momentum just disappeared as the show went on. It is kind of sad seeing as he is the best thing they have going for them right now.

SilverGhost
07-30-2012, 10:24 PM
I am not convinced that Punk is a heel. I think he went more of a frustrated tweener or something.

tombstone13
07-30-2012, 10:27 PM
I am not convinced that Punk is a heel. I think he went more of a frustrated tweener or something.

At first I was not convinced he went full heel either. But when you look how they opened the show when they showed Punk attacking The Rock. With the way they made the video it was clear that the WWE intends it to be a full heel turn. It was very similar to the way they made the video when Battista attacked mysterio. Or whenever a serious heel goes crazy attacking a face.

BadAndy
07-30-2012, 10:28 PM
I am not convinced that Punk is a heel. I think he went more of a frustrated tweener or something.

I think that in the day and age of internet talk and scoops of ideas being leaked, the creative team makes changes constantly. It's their way of keeping people guessing. I think that instead of a straight up heel, they are going with a guy that's conflicted and frustrated. It looked like he wanted to hurt Cena but decided against it. His yelling at AJ was a heel move though. I think we'll see him float more along the tweener/heel line than the tweener/face line.

SilverGhost
07-30-2012, 10:41 PM
At first I was not convinced he went full heel either. But when you look how they opened the show when they showed Punk attacking The Rock. With the way they made the video it was clear that the WWE intends it to be a full heel turn. It was very similar to the way they made the video when Battista attacked mysterio. Or whenever a serious heel goes crazy attacking a face.

That is one idea. Though I am more incline to believe that he is a frustrated champion that has been overshadowed by the likes of Cena and Rock.


I think that in the day and age of internet talk and scoops of ideas being leaked, the creative team makes changes constantly. It's their way of keeping people guessing. I think that instead of a straight up heel, they are going with a guy that's conflicted and frustrated. It looked like he wanted to hurt Cena but decided against it. His yelling at AJ was a heel move though. I think we'll see him float more along the tweener/heel line than the tweener/face line.

Heel/Tweener describes him better than full heel. Full heel would be that he got both Rock AND Cena using the title belt and gathering heat from the fans saying "All of you don't deserve to see The Rock or John Cena. You have a fighting champion and the spotlight should ALWAYS be on me!"

My guess though.

hiphopjunkie
07-30-2012, 10:51 PM
I saw him more as a reluctant heel. The way they played it out, i feel like Cm Punk doesn't want to be heel. Where's that brash, arrogant asshole?

SilverGhost
07-30-2012, 10:58 PM
I saw him more as a reluctant heel. The way they played it out, i feel like Cm Punk doesn't want to be heel. Where's that brash, arrogant asshole?

This is what is lacking for that heel turn. He could get booed from the crowd for attacking The Rock but he won't get heat if he doesn't have those qualities.

hiphopjunkie
07-30-2012, 11:18 PM
This is what is lacking for that heel turn. He could get booed from the crowd for attacking The Rock but he won't get heat if he doesn't have those qualities.

I also noticed his commentary wasn't as great as the real heel CM Punk. I hated when he tried to explain his comments from earlier to lawler. Why are you explaining? You do what you do because YOU CAN! Heels don't need to explain a damn thing.

RatedRorayJames
07-30-2012, 11:40 PM
-Punk Turns Heel. Still get complaints from Fans.-

Really?! REALLY?! lol, But seriously, Punk will be alright, when he was the Straight Edge Savior, he was always doing this kinda stuff, but more stylish, so I KINDA understand where you come from, but just give it time and see what comes out of it.

tombstone13
07-30-2012, 11:43 PM
-Punk Turns Heel. Still get complaints from Fans.-

Really?! REALLY?! lol, But seriously, Punk will be alright, when he was the Straight Edge Savior, he was always doing this kinda stuff, but more stylish, so I KINDA understand where you come from, but just give it time and see what comes out of it.

I agree with you. I even said that it may be to early to bitch about it. I just feel like the way they went about it this week right after the turn was like a seriously kind of thing. But I like many have been wanting a heel turn for a while. Just a little more edgy if that makes sense. But we will see as time unfolds.

RatedRorayJames
07-30-2012, 11:57 PM
I agree with you. I even said that it may be to early to bitch about it. I just feel like the way they went about it this week right after the turn was like a seriously kind of thing. But I like many have been wanting a heel turn for a while. Just a little more edgy if that makes sense. But we will see as time unfolds.

Yeah bro, it makes sense, I just don't like people who complain after a few segments within 1 night, its okay if like, she did like 2 matches and 3 segments, but what did he get, like 2-3 segments? I try and not do this, but I let people know when they do it, lol, sorry if it sounds rude.

tombstone13
07-31-2012, 12:04 AM
Yeah bro, it makes sense, I just don't like people who complain after a few segments within 1 night, its okay if like, she did like 2 matches and 3 segments, but what did he get, like 2-3 segments? I try and not do this, but I let people know when they do it, lol, sorry if it sounds rude.


No I do not mind at all. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. and as I had said before. I am somewhat new to this site and just registered. Being my first post and all I just stated what I felt. But I know what you mean completely.

RatedRorayJames
07-31-2012, 12:05 AM
No I do not mind at all. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. and as I had said before. I am somewhat new to this site and just registered. Being my first post and all I just stated what I felt. But I know what you mean completely.

alright, its cool.

Dennis
07-31-2012, 01:21 AM
I am not convinced that Punk is a heel. I think he went more of a frustrated tweener or something.
yea, I can see this as a possibility. he did say the champion is the most important figure on the show... and he happens to be champion... not I'm the best wrestler and happen to be the champion what would of been the heel move to do. though his attacking cena seemed like a heel move... good ploy wwe creative haha I have no clue what your doing with punk .

hiphopjunkie
07-31-2012, 01:31 AM
I don't like how the commentators commented on the heel turn on Raw 1000. That just led to more explaining. It's the reason i hate the Big Show heel turn. Even though he is a heel, he still panders to the fans, even if it is negatively...

mr_pipe_bomb
07-31-2012, 01:36 AM
just give it time...hes still really popular with everyone (myself included).

Dennis
07-31-2012, 01:45 AM
just give it time...hes still really popular with everyone (myself included).
are you implying he will become more hated? I'm confused on your position on cm punks (maybe) heel turn

goodomens
07-31-2012, 04:52 AM
2011 edgy @sshole heel punk > 2012 heel punk

Y2JLionsault
08-01-2012, 07:19 AM
I dunno if this has been done before, if so I'm sorry but does anyone else think that it wasn't a heel turn but they've just sort of made Punk a tweener? And not the bullshit 'Cena is a tweener cause he gets split crowd reaction', but an actual tweener. It's been a while since we've had one and he seems like the guy who could pull it off.

CM_SUXX_NOT
08-01-2012, 07:23 AM
Is this not obvious? He comes out telling Jerry that he didn't turn on the fans, then later in the show he acts arrogant on the mic. Of course he's a tweener!

He is a natural heel, so good that everyone loves him as a heel and therefore cheers him.

Cabers
08-01-2012, 07:56 AM
I still hold the belief that he is a heel character now.

King Scrapper
08-01-2012, 08:14 AM
Not to bust any bubbles but he's a heel no doubt. They didn't do an immediate "Fuck you Fans" type of heel turn but they are going to go for the slow "I deserve better and I'm being treated unfairly because blah blah blah" route. Which suits his character better.

Kenny Kaos
08-01-2012, 08:44 AM
He is a heel cos I cheer for him ;)

BadAndy
08-01-2012, 09:06 AM
He's a heel in progression. I think that they are leading him up to full on heelitude. Little by little he's going to do more things to garner more boos. Watch his promo with Cena from Raw. He didn't speak like a tweener, he was pretty condescending and seemed like he was talking to a child. It was much more of a heel promo than anything else.

Dennis
08-01-2012, 11:35 AM
cm punk right now is a tweener though I don't doubt that he will become a heel in the near future.. but as of right now he cares more about the title than doing heel tactics

straightedge916
08-01-2012, 01:51 PM
Right now he's a tweener. That's why he's in a feud with a face (Cena) and a heel (Big Show). I think eventually he'll be fully heel, because he'll probably wrestle Rock at the Royal Rumble. But right now he's a tweener. Which, for the CM Punk character, is a very good position. Face for him is too corny and predictable. Heel, well let's just say he's already had his best run as a heel (Straight Edge Society), and it wont be done again. I think tweener is perfect for him. He can be the edgy "I don't give a shit" kind of character and at the same time not really hate on the fans. Kinda like it was before he turned fully face, and was going up against Cena to unify the titles after he returned last summer.

ash_scorpius
08-02-2012, 03:49 PM
heel or face..he's still money....the guy can hold himself in the ring and make others look good....i'm still swinging to the tweener direction

Viperfish
08-02-2012, 04:28 PM
If anyone can tap into that Stone Cold-like energy of essentially being a heel but being cheered and being 'cool', CM Punk can. It unfortunately rests in the hands of the writers. I mean yeah, even Punk being a heel and getting booed is still better than that face run that he had, but he can be so much more if positioned the right way.

bearkg88
08-02-2012, 04:41 PM
If anyone can tap into that Stone Cold-like energy of essentially being a heel but being cheered and being 'cool', CM Punk can. It unfortunately rests in the hands of the writers. I mean yeah, even Punk being a heel and getting booed is still better than that face run that he had, but he can be so much more if positioned the right way.

I think Viper has a point. The only thing is if they are going to have Punk be the SCSA of this era, then the writers need to steer from the complaining Punk did at the end of Raw.

Dennis
08-02-2012, 04:55 PM
I think Viper has a point. The only thing is if they are going to have Punk be the SCSA of this era, then the writers need to steer from the complaining Punk did at the end of Raw.
I agree the complaining that punk made him seem kind of cowardly. Punk knew he would have to defend his title and messing with the number one contender match with a super-face doesn't seem very austin-like either.. though I'm sure someone could find an example of me being wrong.

bearkg88
08-02-2012, 05:03 PM
I agree the complaining that punk made him seem kind of cowardly. Punk knew he would have to defend his title and messing with the number one contender match with a super-face doesn't seem very austin-like either.. though I'm sure someone could find an example of me being wrong.

Honestly, that Punk reminded me of the heel Christian from last year with his whining.

Dubs
08-02-2012, 05:10 PM
I agree the complaining that punk made him seem kind of cowardly. Punk knew he would have to defend his title and messing with the number one contender match with a super-face doesn't seem very austin-like either.. though I'm sure someone could find an example of me being wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpU9O--wxP8
Skip to 8:27 and up.

Dennis
08-02-2012, 05:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpU9O--wxP8
Skip to 8:27 and up.
I thought I might be wrong.. haha good catch but was this when rock was as a super-face? to the same point as cena is now?

bu s3ud
08-08-2012, 02:13 AM
do you think that the cm punks heel turn is a mistake ? in my opinion cm punk is a great baby face ,,, he is the best in the world .... wwe should keep him as a baby face

Shaz11
08-08-2012, 02:16 AM
Hey bro! Just saying, but I think you need to quickly add a sentence or two on why you are asking if the EWN think CM Punk's heel turn was a mistake. If you don't, then I'm afraid the mods will have to merge the thread bro. ;)

SLEEPY LOCO1
08-08-2012, 02:19 AM
No !

PSOjedi
08-08-2012, 03:25 AM
CM Punk turned heel too quickly. He was really over as a face. He should have remain face for 2 more years. Turning Punk heel, mean, WWE and especially Vince McMahon, does not want Cena to turn heel, because of $$$$$ . Too bad.



No !
Best reply ever !!! :rolleyes:

bu s3ud
08-08-2012, 04:23 AM
[QUOTE=PSOjedi;598495]CM Punk turned heel too quickly. He was really over as a face. He should have remain face for 2 more years. Turning Punk heel, mean, WWE and especially Vince McMahon, does not want Cena to turn heel, because of $$$$$ . Too bad. that what i meat . punk turned heel very quicly

FLWWEFan
08-08-2012, 08:53 AM
CM Punk is one of those who is great as both a heel and a face. He can pull of either, while some cannot. Should they have left him as a face? I think they should've just for a little while longer, but I can see why they did it. Looks to me like they're setting up a Rock/Punk feud that will end around the Royal Rumble with Rock taking the belt off Punk only to lose it to Cena at WrestleMania and officially pass the torch so maybe it was the right time to do so.

AttitudeEraForever
08-09-2012, 02:49 PM
I think it's about time CM-Punk turned heel, it's who he is, a full year being face was just too much for Punks ego, so attacking The Rock was an amazing way to turn heel, i just don't want him to be heel like before with the straight edged shit, yeah it was fun when he debuted in ROH and sometimes in ECW and partly in WWE, but he needs something new, to re-invent himself, a group, that is his own, a dominant stable like the NWO, IV Horsemen, Evolution, something like that, have Damien Sandow, Bray Wyatt and Drew McIntyre/Johnny Curtis, make the mid-card, jobber names HUGE. I just want to see how this Heel Punk character can develop, is demanding respect enough? We'll see how it goes.

AWrestlingGod
08-09-2012, 05:01 PM
Have you guys noticed Cena did the exact same thing CM Punk did that turned him heel 2 years ago.

The Rock comes in beats up a heel (Miz and Alex Riley) turns around and bamn FU.
2 years later..
The Rock comes in beats up a heel (big Show) turns around a gets clotheslined by CM Punk.

There very similar even the look on there faces after.

opinions?

WrestlingWithThoughts
08-17-2012, 09:52 AM
I like what they're currently doing with Punk, it's indeed a heel turn but a slow one at that. He hasn't outright "turned his back on the WWE universe" however some of his actions have been questionable, i'm just glad the quick witted cocky persona of Punk is back on are TV screens once more, last weeks RAW I couldn't help but laugh at Punk's comment about Cena using the bulldog "looks like he learnt a new move" Genius! this is the Punk we've all wanted back & it's now here. Now let's just hope they don't have him lose the WWE championship on Sunday & ruin this whole angle.

BadAndy
08-20-2012, 10:16 PM
Tonight Punk just took it to SES level of coolness. I loved this promo so incredibly much. I love that edge he's got that for the last few weeks he hasn't seemed to really have. This is going to be very good. I can easily see him taking on Cena at Night of Champions and putting it to Cena. This is going to be very, very good.

AWrestlingGod
08-20-2012, 10:17 PM
That was the true CM Punk heel turn

BadAndy
08-20-2012, 10:28 PM
That was the true CM Punk heel turn

INDEEEEEED! Any time Lawler gets roughed up is a good night of Raw.

Dubs
08-21-2012, 02:29 AM
I thought CM Punk's promo last night on Raw was very well done followed with the kick to Lawler. I'll be honest here, I wasn't really digging the whole "Show me some respect!" shtick at first but as the weeks gone by, I'm really liking it with CM Punk making valid points. CM Punk's character right now is old school cool (I'm corny, I know) and although I hate comparing wrestlers, his character reminds me of Stone Cold back in 1997. Hes great to watch.

steveorton
08-26-2012, 07:36 PM
I thought CM Punk's promo last night on Raw was very well done followed with the kick to Lawler. I'll be honest here, I wasn't really digging the whole "Show me some respect!" shtick at first but as the weeks gone by, I'm really liking it with CM Punk making valid points. CM Punk's character right now is old school cool (I'm corny, I know) and although I hate comparing wrestlers, his character reminds me of Stone Cold back in 1997. Hes great to watch.

Yea Dubs spot on. His heel turn has been refreshing his promos have improved drastically and side storyline with Lawler nicely done WWE. Gotta Love HeelPunk.

FLWWEFan
09-02-2012, 10:26 AM
Something big is supposed to unfold with CM Punk tomorrow night on Raw in Chicago. My guess is the heel turn will be completed tomorrow.

johnnydropkicks
09-02-2012, 11:25 AM
Am I the only one who has been disappointed by the heel turn so far? Is he heel or trying for tweener? I figured the hitman trunks might have meant he was trying for some tweener thing like face in chicago heel everywhere else or something but they haven't been to chicago yet. but other than that I think his heel run hasn't been amazing so far.

Pumpkinhead
09-02-2012, 11:29 AM
Am I the only one who has been disappointed by the heel turn so far? Is he heel or trying for tweener? I figured the hitman trunks might have meant he was trying for some tweener thing like face in chicago heel everywhere else or something but they haven't been to chicago yet. but other than that I think his heel run hasn't been amazing so far.

"Roleplay" ;)

Dennis
09-04-2012, 10:13 PM
Am I the only one who has been disappointed by the heel turn so far? Is he heel or trying for tweener? I figured the hitman trunks might have meant he was trying for some tweener thing like face in chicago heel everywhere else or something but they haven't been to chicago yet. but other than that I think his heel run hasn't been amazing so far.
I think he is clearly a heel after monday. but I share in your disappointment minus the heyman angle

Dubs
09-27-2012, 03:42 PM
CM Punk is continuing to do an amazing job as a heel. His promo with Mic Foley was really great. I think he'll turn back to a face after Wrestlemania 29 but I really want him to stay as a heel for as long as he can because hes really delivering with these awesome heel promos.

AWrestlingGod
09-29-2012, 09:54 PM
CM Punk is continuing to do an amazing job as a heel. His promo with Mic Foley was really great. I think he'll turn back to a face after Wrestlemania 29 but I really want him to stay as a heel for as long as he can because hes really delivering with these awesome heel promos.

CM Punk Vs Mick Foley was a dream match of mine, more so than stone cold vs Cm punk (my opinion) so when I saw CM Punk and Mick Foley in the ring I probably marked out more than anybody.

vinnienfg
10-04-2012, 01:42 PM
I know this is a little off topic, but did anyone else in the UK pre-order CM Punk's Blu-ray/DVD? I did and mine arrived today from Silverscreen.


CM Punk vs Foley is a match I would like to see.

tellstarcookie
10-06-2012, 07:26 AM
I don't like Punk a heel. But then I don't like Del Rio or Dolph either. I would like to see a match between Ryback and Punk just to take Punk down a bit. He has way too much ego.

Dubs
10-06-2012, 09:35 AM
I don't like Punk a heel. But then I don't like Del Rio or Dolph either. I would like to see a match between Ryback and Punk just to take Punk down a bit. He has way too much ego.
I can understand why people don't really like Punk as a heel. At first, I didn't want him to turn heel because I thought his face run was great with him putting on fantastic matches with Daniel Bryan and Chris Jericho. He even put on a great feud with Alberto Del Rio. His popularity as a top babyface was amazing and was something fresh that the WWE needed for a LONG time. I thought him turning heel would be a bad idea business wise since hes so damn popular.

But as a heel, hes cutting awesome promos, his program with Paul Heyman is so entertaining, and hes the best heel in the WWE since Edge's heel run. The guy as a heel is genius.

SteveA21
10-09-2012, 02:33 PM
Having seen Punk twice as a heel live - once at a House show at the Cow Palace in San Fran when he was doing the Straight Edge Society gimmick - and last night - I gotta say that Punk LOVES being a heel - it oozes off of him live. Last night the crowd really wanted to like him and he worked his ass off to turn that around - very effectively too.

I was amazed at the transformation by the end of the show when he went full-on cowardly heel and there was NOBODY in the arena that was clapping or cheering for him - wall-to-wall boos.

At that Cow Palace show, he got people so revved up, people were taking batteries out of their cameras to throw at the heel faction - Edge had to get people to chill out - the Cow Palace gets rowdy crowds, needless to say.

Validity
10-09-2012, 05:16 PM
I know this is a little off topic, but did anyone else in the UK pre-order CM Punk's Blu-ray/DVD? I did and mine arrived today from Silverscreen.


CM Punk vs Foley is a match I would like to see.

Thanks for making me aware that it was already out, can't say I paid too much attention to the release date.
Once you've given it a proper watch can you post letting me know whether it is worth watching?
If so it's straight on my Christmas list XD.

Back on topic, I would of personally preferred him to be portrayed as a less cowardly heel. He plays it very well considering how he's been instructed to act, but I can't remember too many completely credible heel WWE champions in recent times. Although if i'm wrong about that last point please do correct me :).

Double Axehandle
10-31-2012, 04:27 PM
So all signs point to cm punk holding the wwe title for an entire year which I think is a huge feat considering how fickle the writers are to temperamental fans always wanting change. I like the punk character and I appreciate Phil brooks the man not with the same respect as a john cena but I still pull for the anti establishment guy. I'm a little worried if his character is reaching an plateau and the only criticism I have is he has devolved into the cowardly heel. That isn't punk. He's always been a strong personality and shouldn't be made to look so weak. The champion whether he's a face or heel should be dominant because the champion is supposed to be the best in the company not some clown that cheats to hold onto the title with rehashed Danny Davis routines. Punk needs to be himself, it's what made the fans get behind him in the first place. If he's a heel then be a cm punk heel not this mockery.

End rant

TheRealOutlaw
10-31-2012, 04:48 PM
So all signs point to cm punk holding the wwe title for an entire year which I think is a huge feat considering how fickle the writers are to temperamental fans always wanting change. I like the punk character and I appreciate Phil brooks the man not with the same respect as a john cena but I still pull for the anti establishment guy. I'm a little worried if his character is reaching an plateau and the only criticism I have is he has devolved into the cowardly heel. That isn't punk. He's always been a strong personality and shouldn't be made to look so weak. The champion whether he's a face or heel should be dominant because the champion is supposed to be the best in the company not some clown that cheats to hold onto the title with rehashed Danny Davis routines. Punk needs to be himself, it's what made the fans get behind him in the first place. If he's a heel then be a cm punk heel not this mockery.

End rant

Please point out what makes him look weak. Most of the heels in the WWE current and past have cheated to hold onto the title. Heels cheat and faces don't (well most of the time) that's how it's always been. CM Punk is a heel CM Punk not a mockery.

Robstar
10-31-2012, 05:01 PM
Yeah, Flair used to "punk-out" (how ironic!) all the time and we think he's the worst champion in history!


Oh wait, he's what? :rolleyes:

Double Axehandle
10-31-2012, 05:25 PM
Please point out what makes him look weak. Most of the heels in the WWE current and past have cheated to hold onto the title. Heels cheat and faces don't (well most of the time) that's how it's always been. CM Punk is a heel CM Punk not a mockery.

Show was a pretty dominant heel champion in recent years and back in the 90s Yokozuna was dominant and so has a heel trips been several times. It happens, it should happen. Just because the writers know fans like you want a sniveling coward champion doesn't mean all of us do.

TheRealOutlaw
10-31-2012, 05:32 PM
Show was a pretty dominant heel champion in recent years and back in the 90s Yokozuna was dominant and so has a heel trips been several times. It happens, it should happen. Just because the writers know fans like you want a sniveling coward champion doesn't mean all of us do.

First off you know nothing about what I want to see as a fan. So please don't try. Second I never said I wanted a sniveling coward as a champ. What I said was MOST heels current and past have cheated to win, I never said all. I do agree that Show, Yokozuna and HHH where dominant. But with a heel champion you can bet MOST at one point will cheat to win. Cheating to win and keeping the title does not make them a coward. Now if you think cheating to win makes them a coward, then you're calling Show, Yokozuna and HHH sniveling cowards. They all at one point have cheated.

I asked you to point out what makes CM Punk look weak as a champ and you didn't you just went off thinking you know what a fan like me wants. So again I'm going to ask you, what makes CM Punk look weak as a heel champion?

Dennis
10-31-2012, 05:38 PM
First off don't ever think you know what I want as a fan. Second I never said I wanted a sniveling coward as a champ. What I said was MOST heels current and past have cheated to win, I never said all. I do agree that Show, Yokozuna and HHH where dominant. But with a heel champion you can bet MOST at one point they will cheat to win. Cheating to win and keep the title does not make them a coward.

I asked you to point out what makes CM Punk look weak as a champ and you didn't you just went off thinking you know what a fan like me wants. So again I'm going to ask you, what makes CM Punk look weak as a heel champion?
the fact he hasn't won cleanly lately makes him look weak. also the fact that he looked like a glorified jobber probably wasn't good for his image to the casual fan. I'm not saying it's bad I love reigns were the champion just finds ways to win, not always by the best methods.... it's more interesting.

TheRealOutlaw
10-31-2012, 05:53 PM
the fact he hasn't won cleanly lately makes him look weak. also the fact that he looked like a glorified jobber probably wasn't good for his image to the casual fan. I'm not saying it's bad I love reigns were the champion just finds ways to win, not always by the best methods.... it's more interesting.

I will agree that he has not won cleanly lately. But most heels don't always win cleanly. Every heel at one point and time will look weak when the cheat to win. He does look like a glorified jobber as well. I also love reigns were the champion just finds ways to win.

Dennis
10-31-2012, 05:55 PM
I will agree that he has not won cleanly lately. But most heels don't always win cleanly. Every heel at one point and time will look weak when the cheat to win. He does look like a glorified jobber as well. I also love reigns were the champion just finds ways to win.
I don't disagree with you, daniel bryan as the world champion was one of my favorite reigns in recent memory because he never won cleanly... he found new ways to be a scum bag.... though robstar probably hated it because it made aj lee very popular.

Double Axehandle
10-31-2012, 06:44 PM
I asked you to point out what makes CM Punk look weak as a champ and you didn't you just went off thinking you know what a fan like me wants. So again I'm going to ask you, what makes CM Punk look weak as a heel champion?

Put your handbag away sweetheart there no need to get snippy.

Like Dennis said punk is basically a jobber with a belt. He hardly ever dominates someone and I'm sick of that stereotype. For once I'd like to see a heel champ just crush his opponents and to get over as a bad guy instead of cheating just attack all the good guys by costing them matches or blindsiding them backstage. Maybe even bashing the fans in a harsher way like the rock used to abuse the crowds when he was in the nation. It can be done.

Dennis
10-31-2012, 06:46 PM
Put your handbag away sweetheart there no need to get snippy.

Like Dennis said punk is basically a jobber with a belt. He hardly ever dominates someone and I'm sick of that stereotype. For once I'd like to see a heel champ just crush his opponents and to get over as a bad guy instead of cheating just attack all the good guys by costing them matches or blindsiding them backstage. Maybe even bashing the fans in a harsher way like the rock used to abuse the crowds when he was in the nation. It can be done.
mark henry was a pretty dominate champion.

TheRealOutlaw
10-31-2012, 06:51 PM
Put your handbag away sweetheart there no need to get snippy.

Like Dennis said punk is basically a jobber with a belt. He hardly ever dominates someone and I'm sick of that stereotype. For once I'd like to see a heel champ just crush his opponents and to get over as a bad guy instead of cheating just attack all the good guys by costing them matches or blindsiding them backstage. Maybe even bashing the fans in a harsher way like the rock used to abuse the crowds when he was in the nation. It can be done.

Lol name calling really??? Ok now I know what type of person I'm dealing with. My entire start was a simple question, asking you what made CM Punk look weak. You responded with blah blah blah yet didn't answer my question. So I asked again. Dennis was kind enough to give his thoughts on what made him look weak and I agreed with him. If you're going to do a write up on CM Punk looking weak you could have put in your opinion on what actually makes him look weak. If you couldn't answer my simple question then maybe you should have just moved on.

Dubs
10-31-2012, 06:53 PM
Please point out what makes him look weak. Most of the heels in the WWE current and past have cheated to hold onto the title. Heels cheat and faces don't (well most of the time) that's how it's always been. CM Punk is a heel CM Punk not a mockery.
I pretty much agree with this. Punk isn't looking weak at all. He the best chicken-shit heel since Edge. I'm loving his heel work right now.

Robstar
11-01-2012, 12:16 AM
Yeah, Flair used to "punk-out" (how ironic!) all the time and we think he's the worst champion in history!


Oh wait, he's what? :rolleyes:

This guy here knows what's up.