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View Full Version : Does the WWE want other wrestlers on the same level as John Cena?



Braxton
07-22-2012, 06:08 PM
A friend and I have discussions around wrestling at least twice a week regarding our fantasy bookings, what we liked and didn't like, etc. and the inevitable discussion about how Cena is clearly number 1 and Punk and Sheamus at 2a and 2b (meaning they are both on the same level). The discussion focused on how will the WWE get Punk and Sheamus over enough to be considered to be 1b with Cena. After deciding that Punk losing to Cena would be Cena's way of saying "I was busy with other stuff that was more important than the title, but I'm ready to have it again, thanks Punk, I appreciate it. You did a great job but I would like it back now," and how devastating this would be to the year long odyssey of CM Punk as a baby face would be, I came to another conclusion or rather an interesting idea.

One of the things that made the Attitude Era so good was the log jam at the top. You knew that on any night, Kurt Angle, SCSA, The Rock, HHH, Mick Foley, Taker could walk out with a win against any other guy in the company, and do it cleanly.

That doesn't happen with Cena. Cena lost cleanly for the first time since MITB 2011 (and you can argue that one as well since Cena had the match won until he knocked out JL) to The Rock at WM. If you don't count MITB, than I don't even remember how far back you go. Cena single handedly defeated the Nexus who was seen as one of the biggest threats in the company. Cena is a 12 time WWE champion. Cena has been in the Main Event of every show since Punk became champion. Cena has overshadowed every wrestler in the company since 2009 at least.

In my eyes, CM Punk is STILL an underdog. Until he beats Cena cleanly in the deciding match of a feud (Him winning tomorrow isn't enough, he has to come out on top of Cena if they face again at SummerSlam) then he will remain that underdog to Cena and be a clear number 2.

The WWE has seemingly kept Cena away from CM Punk during this whole title run, almost like they are trying to make the audience think Punk is the top guy without actually beating the top guy. Never have I seen a situation where the top 2 guys in the company have so little interaction with each other. It's odd. They could have really put Punk over by now by using Cena but they haven't. Any idea that this would hurt Cena's character is absurd.

So the idea I came to (which my evidence seems to point towards the answer "Yes") is: Does the WWE want multiple number 1 guys or do they want it to be John Cena at the top with clear #2 wrestlers underneath him?

Thoughts?

K2Jelly
07-22-2012, 06:12 PM
I don't see the reason why the WWE would need to have another wrestler on Cena's level. He does the most merchandise sales, gets the most reactions from the fans, both smarks and casual fans, and he's even more relevant than the WWE in social media. There's got to be one top dog and clearly Cena fits the role perfectly as he appeals to the most beneficial demographic.

Oh and on a side note, this thread is probably going to derail pretty quickly as the level of discussion on these forums tends to degenerate into childish ranting when it comes to Cena. Just a heads up.

Wade Barrett 1979
07-22-2012, 06:16 PM
I'm going to come back and read all the comments in the morning. A good laugh is always needed on a Monday morning, at work.

K2Jelly
07-22-2012, 06:17 PM
I'm going to come back and read all the comments in the morning. A good laugh is always needed on a Monday morning, at work.

See? This guys gets the picture. :D

Braxton
07-22-2012, 06:28 PM
I read a lot of the threads here but rarely find the reason to post. I also anticipated the degenerative spiral that would take place in this thread. The only reason I posted this was because it was a different idea apart from the usual "I used to like CM Punk but now he is stale" and "John Cena caused 9/11" kinda stuff that is usually posted here.

Dubs
07-22-2012, 06:43 PM
Another way you can get CM Punk and Sheamus on John Cena's level is by having them say that they are the #1 guy in the company or the face of the company. Have one of them cut a promo where CM Punk says "I am the voice of the voiceless and the #1 man here in professional wrestling today! #Bestintheworld" or Sheamus cutting a promo saying "I'm the best World Heavyweight champion and I'm the #1 Superstar in the WWE fella!" Also, have the announcers hype them up as if they were the #1 guy in the company where Michael Cole says "Here is CM Punk! The face of the WWE!" or "Here comes Sheamus! The #1 Superstar making an impact here in the WWE!" It may seem as if they are twooting their own horn but it's actually making it seem as if they are on Cena's level. It's little things like that which makes both wrestlers seem credible.

I remember watching The Rock's DVD where The Rock talks about how he and Austin used to have a friendly rivalry, calling themselves the #1 guy in the Attitude Era. We all knew Stone Cold was the #1 guy in the Attitude Era while The Rock was the 2nd top guy but like The Rock said on his DVD, he seen Stone Cold's spot as the #1 guy and he was going to take it because he didn't want to settle for less. Triple H has even stated that he and The Rock had that same friendly rivalry where they were vying for the top spot while Austin was gone due to neck surgery.

John Cena is the biggest draw WWE has right now but when you have two wrestlers vying for his top spot, it makes for great competition with one trying to out-perform the other.

johnnydropkicks
07-22-2012, 07:22 PM
Cena might not be good forever, but right now he makes money. I'm sure WWE would want someone like Cena again. Stone Cold was Cena, Rock was Cena, despite the fact the Rock got cred and respect, Austin was famous for a long time and arguably as big as him. Thing was there was two then. Undertaker is Cena's level. Sure he don't do as much but you can't say Undertaker isn't at least the level of Cena. These guys make money for WWE. WWE would take as many as they could get.

Dennis
07-22-2012, 07:23 PM
I hate to point this out.. but I would say orton when he is not suspended is on the same level as cena.. I mean his 1b but is definitely more popular than sheamus/punk... the reason... he happens to have been in the wwe for a decade... he would be number one if he didn't get suspended so much...

Champion
07-22-2012, 08:14 PM
I find CM Punk to be 3a and Sheamus to be lower. You have people like Lesnar, The Undertaker and Randy Orton before them.

FXK2I
07-22-2012, 08:16 PM
WWE can have the black John Cena on the same level.....what's his name? That Millions of Dolla's guy with the afro..? Darren Young?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7aewonuaP1qzkmw2o1_500.jpg

You can't really tell the difference except that one guy is white and the other is, well you know, black.

Playboy Stevie V
07-22-2012, 08:22 PM
To be brief and to answer your question on if the WWE wants another wrestler on John Cena's level, I'd say of course they do. Why wouldn't they? Cena makes them a lot of money and is there biggest draw. Who in there right mind wouldn't want to double up their money?

I don't think anyone has stepped up and have been able to reach the money drawing power as Cena. Some are close, but Cena is the top draw. Bottom line nobodies been able to draw like Super Cena.

Braxton
07-22-2012, 08:57 PM
No, Orton wasn't main eventing Raw or PPVs when he was there with Cena. He couldn't get the job done against The Miz in title matches only to have Cena be the one to overcome the odds in the epic that was the I quit match of 2011. Let's be realistic here, Since Cena dropped the Title to Sheamus in 2010 (which began the Nexus angle) Cena has been involved in an angle that was deemed bigger than the title, and when there wasn't an angle that was bigger than the title, Cena was champion. Let's look at the title reigns since then.

Sheamus - 6/2010 - Defeated John Cena in a 6 pack challenge match after the Nexus interfered and cost John Cena.

Orton - 9/2010 - Won a fatal 4 way match. Cena was still busy with the Nexus.

Miz - 11/2010 - Cashed in MITB against Orton. Had the worst 100+ day title reign of the last 15 years. Cena was finishing his feud with the Nexus, and was then screwed by miz at royal rumble, finally, winning the EC match to face Miz at WM. Cena would lose at mania because of interference from The Rock. I am 99% sure that Cena wins that match if they are not setting up Rock v Cena at WM 28.

Cena - 5/2011 - Defeats Miz and John Morrison at ER. This title reign involved the horrible aforementioned I Quit Match, and the "we don't have anything better to do so you can face R-Truth" title match.

CM Punk - 7/2011 - After the best promo in years, CM Punk wins the title and leaves with it, although the match was not clean due to Vince and JL's involvement. Cena would have his own title 8 days later and lose a unification match at SummerSlam where Del Rio cashed in and won after Punk once again beat Cena but not cleanly.

Del Rio - 8/2011 - Del Rio won with a MITB cash in.

Cena -9/2011 - Cena would win at NoC. The only time you can suggest that an angle bigger than Cena was going on is the one between
CM Punk and HHH (although inexplicably, HHH would beat Punk, because it was *HHH Voice* Good for Business.

Del Rio - 10/2011 - Del Rio would win the Title at HiaC after locking Cena out of the cell. Also, JR went bat shit crazy that night.

CM Punk - 11/2011 - Cena probably would've been the champion but he was being set up for a tag match with The Rock against Awesome Truth. CM Punk is still the champion. Cena would not have another WWE title match. Cena actually had TLC in December off. He would then build up for his match at Mania by feuding with Kane and smiling whenever The Rock insulted him. Cena was then busy with Brock Lesnar (who doesn't care about anything. He is an ass kicker after all) followed by having to fight with the Big Show who is a mean giant. He has finally dealt with that, so once again, he is involved in a title match.

So clearly, Cena has always been the number 1. Orton was not involved in the other Major storyline. Punk was for about a month, otherwise it has been all Cena all day.

Edit: Obviously, Taker and Brock are more over than Punk. They also only wrestle 3 times a year. They don't count.

dashkatae
07-22-2012, 10:12 PM
I don't think it's a matter of WWE wanting to keep everyone below Cena, I think it's a problem with how they build up superstars now days. Think about how Cena first came on the scene, his first match was against Kurt Angle, a well established superstar. Now days, they're bringing in new talent and having them do jobbing matches. Also, there is a lack of top talent right now due to WWE not building superstars for the last few years so it makes Cena shine more then he really should.

Dennis
07-23-2012, 12:47 AM
No, Orton wasn't main eventing Raw or PPVs when he was there with Cena. He couldn't get the job done against The Miz in title matches only to have Cena be the one to overcome the odds in the epic that was the I quit match of 2011. Let's be realistic here, Since Cena dropped the Title to Sheamus in 2010 (which began the Nexus angle) Cena has been involved in an angle that was deemed bigger than the title, and when there wasn't an angle that was bigger than the title, Cena was champion. Let's look at the title reigns since then.

Sheamus - 6/2010 - Defeated John Cena in a 6 pack challenge match after the Nexus interfered and cost John Cena.

Orton - 9/2010 - Won a fatal 4 way match. Cena was still busy with the Nexus.

Miz - 11/2010 - Cashed in MITB against Orton. Had the worst 100+ day title reign of the last 15 years. Cena was finishing his feud with the Nexus, and was then screwed by miz at royal rumble, finally, winning the EC match to face Miz at WM. Cena would lose at mania because of interference from The Rock. I am 99% sure that Cena wins that match if they are not setting up Rock v Cena at WM 28.

Cena - 5/2011 - Defeats Miz and John Morrison at ER. This title reign involved the horrible aforementioned I Quit Match, and the "we don't have anything better to do so you can face R-Truth" title match.

CM Punk - 7/2011 - After the best promo in years, CM Punk wins the title and leaves with it, although the match was not clean due to Vince and JL's involvement. Cena would have his own title 8 days later and lose a unification match at SummerSlam where Del Rio cashed in and won after Punk once again beat Cena but not cleanly.

Del Rio - 8/2011 - Del Rio won with a MITB cash in.

Cena -9/2011 - Cena would win at NoC. The only time you can suggest that an angle bigger than Cena was going on is the one between
CM Punk and HHH (although inexplicably, HHH would beat Punk, because it was *HHH Voice* Good for Business.

Del Rio - 10/2011 - Del Rio would win the Title at HiaC after locking Cena out of the cell. Also, JR went bat shit crazy that night.

CM Punk - 11/2011 - Cena probably would've been the champion but he was being set up for a tag match with The Rock against Awesome Truth. CM Punk is still the champion. Cena would not have another WWE title match. Cena actually had TLC in December off. He would then build up for his match at Mania by feuding with Kane and smiling whenever The Rock insulted him. Cena was then busy with Brock Lesnar (who doesn't care about anything. He is an ass kicker after all) followed by having to fight with the Big Show who is a mean giant. He has finally dealt with that, so once again, he is involved in a title match.

So clearly, Cena has always been the number 1. Orton was not involved in the other Major storyline. Punk was for about a month, otherwise it has been all Cena all day.

Edit: Obviously, Taker and Brock are more over than Punk. They also only wrestle 3 times a year. They don't count.
I don't think anyone is saying that orton is as big as cena.. I would say he is on the same level.. when he is the most popular he is a heel so obviously he isn't going to be as over with the kids as cena... but he still draws the adults to buy his shirts.. he still draws ppv buys.. and I'm pretty sure when it comes to the end of cenas career if you were to ask cena who his greatest rival ever was.. he will say randy orton (maybe edge.. but I'd guess orton). HHH has compared randy ortons in ring abilities to HBK... I don't know about you but if HHH compares someone to hbk that is some respect. just remember great faces wont draw nearly as well unless there is a great heel draw as well.. batman movies would be boring if the jokers and the banes of the world just kind of stayed home. orton drew buys when he was facing cena or they wouldn't of kept him facing him for so long... they wouldn't of had wrestlemania matches.... and they for sure wouldn't of made him the youngest world heavyweight champion ever... and randy orton was the second most requested make a wish superstar.. (to john cena of course) showing that even as a face he helps draw people to the sport... and people like him..

Sahu
07-23-2012, 02:24 AM
WWE has a problem...they want to build multiple #1s..but not ready to risk Cena...

I mean..in the MITB match...they mt have allowed Punk won against Cena cleanly..that will not hurt Cena...anyways Cena told u can't be #1 by beating me only once...so that won't hurt Cena n will help Punk...

Cena if given a chance..can cut his own good promos...let him lose cleanly to Punk n allow Cena to cut a promo to convince his kid fans...that will give him a bit more freedom in cutting promos...n let him feud with Punk n that will bring technical best out of Cena...

They had every chance to make Punk a huge draw..but they dropped it....

The Brown One
07-23-2012, 02:54 AM
I'll keep this short. Of course the WWE would want more money. However, you can't always find great guys like Cena who will take every command and work every time hes called upon. That's harder to find than you think nowadays - as ADR is an unreasonable dickhead backstage, Orton and Jericho got suspended, and Mysterio and Punk were also demanding.
So I doubt they would want to find anyone else to get to Cena's level at this stage. Cena is the main merchandise seller, and I think they're happy having it that way until he retires rather than spending years to build another cash cow.


I'm going to come back and read all the comments in the morning. A good laugh is always needed on a Monday morning, at work.

Get yo ass back to work!

Cabers
07-23-2012, 02:07 PM
The want every wrestler on the same level!!

Pumpkinhead
07-23-2012, 02:57 PM
I know someone above Cena's level....Juan Cena!!!!

Dennis
07-23-2012, 03:25 PM
I know someone above Cena's level....Juan Cena!!!!
thank you .. you have just made almost cry in laughter...

Grind_Bastard
07-23-2012, 04:00 PM
I know someone above Cena's level....Juan Cena!!!!

I don't want John Cena as WWE champ, however, if Juan Cena wins the belt, I'll mark like hell!!!

Cynicism
07-23-2012, 04:04 PM
Would love it if Juan Cena caused John Cena to get disqualified tonight, causing John to be the first to cash in and fail, then Juan Cena throws John Cena down a flight of stairs and gets called out by CM Punk leading to a feud till Summerslam and a triple threat match where Cena spends more time under the ring pulling the mask on and taking it off than he does wrestling.............. OK, yeah, I've been drinking

maar13
07-23-2012, 05:07 PM
I don't see the reason why the WWE would need to have another wrestler on Cena's level. He does the most merchandise sales, gets the most reactions from the fans, both smarks and casual fans, and he's even more relevant than the WWE in social media. There's got to be one top dog and clearly Cena fits the role perfectly as he appeals to the most beneficial demographic.

Oh and on a side note, this thread is probably going to derail pretty quickly as the level of discussion on these forums tends to degenerate into childish ranting when it comes to Cena. Just a heads up.

Sorry man but I had to comment on that statement because it sounds like a statement from who does not want to evolve or have acknowlege the past. And even if I bring Punk up because in reality this has nothing to do with either him, Sheamus or none in particular.

It is like a team just depending on one man, you depending on just having a cool shirt that use every Sunday, Diversity on this kind of stuff is the key to survival.

Lets go with the shirt example: you might have plenty of shirts but there is one that is the coolest of them all, and you like it so much it is the only one you use, why bother with another one if you love it and a lot of people like how you look with it too?

But after some time, like it happens with everything, you will get bored by it, people will tell you "Hey man, nice shirt but wasn't it the same as the last time?" And probably you won't care about other people but after a while, you would like something different, and worse if at some point it gets ripped off, now you won't have your shirt at all.

Same goes with depending on one player, if he gets hurt, your whole season goes to the crapper.


Same thign is with Cena, I get he is really relevant and everything, best sales merch, relevan in social media, but what happens if he gets injured? or worse, God Forbitt. What do they do? I mean is in the WWE best interest to have someone to fall on to.

I don't care if it is Orton, Ziggler or Hawkins, anyone but they need someone to be at his level, not bigger but at least at his level.

Just look at the Attitude Era (NO, I don't want it back), Their key to success was diversity, not only was Stone Cold there, The Rock was there and there you will have people who would argue who was better or that they were at the same level.

It is in the WWE´s best interest to have at his level at least and to have a villain at his level and a second option for that. Yes that worked during the Hogan era, but that argument has tons of flaws and times have changed.

Does that mean I would like to see Cena a step down on the food chain? that is also not the case, why? because he is the hero of the little kids and that should not change, but now that you have that demo with you, it is on your best interest to grab the other demos, like the 18-34 demo for example.

I know it sounds weird but it is like the Super hero world, DC likes to portrait Superman as the leader and the No. 1 Superhero there but we all know that Batman is at his level and is aiming to a different audience. But from those two who has gotten the most popular movies or video games lately? Batman, does that diminsh Superman's value, Not at all.

Is Punk Batman's to Cena's Superman? Maybe, maybe not, but if it is not Punk, they should look for someone who gets as much attention and made him look as important to give people a choice, let Cena go Super-Cena, I am fine with that, but would love to see someone else there and by the way ratings go, a lot of people would love it too.

maar13
07-23-2012, 05:10 PM
The want every wrestler on the same level!!
In a perfect world, they would, but from past showings and statements, unfortunately is not true and not only is the WWE, is the business as a whole.

Dennis
07-23-2012, 07:22 PM
Would love it if Juan Cena caused John Cena to get disqualified tonight, causing John to be the first to cash in and fail, then Juan Cena throws John Cena down a flight of stairs and gets called out by CM Punk leading to a feud till Summerslam and a triple threat match where Cena spends more time under the ring pulling the mask on and taking it off than he does wrestling.............. OK, yeah, I've been drinking
you should drink and post more because that is hilarious

Machomadness97
07-23-2012, 11:06 PM
C.M Punk will turn out to be the top heel for this summer. After seeing what he did to Rock, he will probably be close to John Cena and might defeat him at Summerslam. The match will probably be a triple threat match between Show, Punk and Cena at Summerslam. This will be great similar to the triple threat match at Wrestlemania 25 that a blogger pointed out to me early. I hope Summerslam is a great event!

ewantu2
07-24-2012, 10:17 AM
I read a lot of the threads here but rarely find the reason to post. I also anticipated the degenerative spiral that would take place in this thread. The only reason I posted this was because it was a different idea apart from the usual "I used to like CM Punk but now he is stale" and "John Cena caused 9/11" kinda stuff that is usually posted here.

I really lmao when i read that.

HCollins-TNA1
07-24-2012, 03:21 PM
Cena time will come to a end sooner or later.... Right now Cena is go to guy in the company, like him or hate him... He being the most popular.... Then one got to look how they push or over push him... much as they did Hogan and Austin most notably... Then look how they underpush others such as the WWE and World Champions and their contenders.... Look the past few months the WWE title seem to be a co-Main Event title instead the main object during a PPV!!