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View Full Version : Did Mark William Calaway get lucky?



Mr. Ziggles
07-10-2012, 03:52 PM
So I was talking to someone the other day about Undertaker's streak, and my point was one day the streak will end no matter what, even if he retires undefeated the streak will end (get to a point where it won't grow anymore).

Then my friends answer was, 'Whatever I don't care he sucks anyway', at first i was like WTF, but the more i though about it my friend actually had a point, granted I don't think he meant it in the way I have now deciphered it.

So my question is did Mark William Calaway 'The undertaker', get lucky and just get handed a gimmick that requires little to no ability, he is basically a wrestling zombie and just doesn't have to sell any moves, never has to cut a memorable promo, he just has to keep getting up.


Thoughts?

Tommy Thunder
07-10-2012, 03:57 PM
So I was talking to someone the other day about Undertaker's streak, and my point was one day the streak will end no matter what, even if he retires undefeated the streak will end (get to a point where it won't grow anymore).

Then my friends answer was, 'Whatever I don't care he sucks anyway', at first i was like WTF, but the more i though about it my friend actually had a point, granted I don't think he meant it in the way I have now deciphered it.

So my question is did Mark William Calaway 'The undertaker', get lucky and just get handed a gimmick that requires little to no ability, he is basically a wrestling zombie and just doesn't have to sell any moves, never has to cut a memorable promo, he just has to keep getting up.


Thoughts?

The bolded are outrageous comments.

A gimmick that requires little to no ability? Please!
And doesn't have to sell moves?
Never cuts a memorable promo?! Taker's mic skill isn't out of this world, but it's still damn good. I find his promos captivating, they suck you into the story he's trying to tell.

K2Jelly
07-10-2012, 03:59 PM
I'm only going to address the last pat of your OP. The Undertaker nowadays is much more vulnerable than he was when he first started. Back then, he really didn't sell a lot of moves because of the power of the urn that Bearer possessed. But even then, The Undertaker was expected to captivate the interest and minds of the wrestling audience whenever he both but a promo and wrestled. He may not have been technical but some of the moves he pulled off were pretty impressive for a guy that's nearly seven feet tall. Plus, whenever The Undertaker had a feud, he still had to hype it up. Sure, some smoke, lightning and pyro were added into the fray for storytelling elements but even then, he needed to sell his character through mic work. So The Undertaker wasn't necessarily lucky. He had a lot going against him when he got the gimmick, his size, backstage politics but he was still able to get by.

Mr. Ziggles
07-10-2012, 04:06 PM
OK so maybe that came across as abit harsh reading it back, but i still stand by what i meant.

I wasn't trying to say is bad, what i meant to get across was would he have as successful as he has been with a regular guy, if he had wrestled under his real name, would Mark Calaway have been on par with The Undertaker, or did the gimmick make him.


I don't know why but I'm really struggling to put this into words.

Tommy Thunder
07-10-2012, 04:09 PM
OK so maybe that came across as abit harsh reading it back, but i still stand by what i meant.

I wasn't trying to say is bad, what i meant to get across was would he have as successful as he has been with a regular guy, if he had wrestled under his real name, would Mark Calaway have been on par with The Undertaker, or did the gimmick make him.


I don't know why but I'm really struggling to put this into words.

The gimmick helped a lot IMO, in that it was/is an unique gimmick that's been built up over a long period of time. When a veteran keeps going for a long time fans can easily get behind him as time goes on. But the Undertaker moniker has definitely helped him achieve the level of popularity he has.

bearkg88
07-10-2012, 04:15 PM
The bolded are outrageous comments.

A gimmick that requires little to no ability? Please!
And doesn't have to sell moves?
Never cuts a memorable promo?! Taker's mic skill isn't out of this world, but it's still damn good. I find his promos captivating, they suck you into the story he's trying to tell.

I could use Tommy's sentiment, but look at this. Look at his promos with Cena when they were on SD, look at his promos with HBK during their feuds, look at the promos with HHH, or frankly, anyone else. Taker is good on the mic. As for not selling moves, come on now. You could easily go to youtube, type in The Undertaker vs and pick any choices that pop up, and you'll see Taker selling moves.

thejman93
07-10-2012, 04:19 PM
The Undertaker is Mark Calaway. Without Mark, The Undertaker isn't The Undertaker.

Asherdelampyr
07-10-2012, 04:20 PM
I'm actually going to come out on the other side from everyone else here.

The undertaker gimmick is hot garbage.

Seriously, he's a pseudo-zombie with "magical" powers and an urn that can be used to command him, if it wasn't Mark Calaway behind the gimmick, it would have sank faster than a dead hooker in Lake Mead.

Look at the history of supernatural gimmicks, there is a reason that no other one has survived this long, (sans Kane, but tbh for the first 5 years that gimmick rode entirely off of Taker's)

Somehow Mark was able to take something that at it's core was totally ridiculous, and turned it into a legacy. I think had they given him a real gimmick, he could have done even better.

justin sane
07-10-2012, 04:20 PM
The gimmick helped him as I dont think he would have been nearly as successful had he just been Mark Calloway, BUT, I believe he was the only man that could have made it work for half as long as it has, and his evolution of technical skills and leadership backstage has helped him gain the respect he deserves

TheBritishInvasion
07-10-2012, 05:04 PM
the Gimmick was a platform, a canvase. Mark Calaway was the artist. to be artisticaly put (bah dum tsssh)

Playboy Stevie V
07-10-2012, 05:14 PM
Your friends are crazy. No one could have pulled off the Undertaker gimmick better than Mark. And as for him not having great abilities or promo skills....He is arguably the best big man ever in the biz, if not over all and his promos are gold.

Be a true friend and get them help. Cocaine is a hell of a drug...LOL

Let's not go one dimensional either. Cough cough...American Bad Ass....cough.

SLEEPY LOCO1
07-10-2012, 05:17 PM
I'm actually going to come out on the other side from everyone else here.

The undertaker gimmick is hot garbage.

Seriously, he's a pseudo-zombie with "magical" powers and an urn that can be used to command him, if it wasn't Mark Calaway behind the gimmick, it would have sank faster than a dead hooker in Lake Mead.

Look at the history of supernatural gimmicks, there is a reason that no other one has survived this long, (sans Kane, but tbh for the first 5 years that gimmick rode entirely off of Taker's)

Somehow Mark was able to take something that at it's core was totally ridiculous, and turned it into a legacy. I think had they given him a real gimmick, he could have done even better.

Lol, I think only people from Las Vegas would know about that dirty ass mud puddle.

OT: I don't think Mark Calloway got that lucky, he made a shitty gimmick pretty cool. MC is great in the ring, can cut a pretty good promo and he is very smart about the buisness, I think he would have made any gimmick work. With that being said I actually like Kane way better than I like Undertaker and I think he should have had the better career. Glen Jacobs is a great wrestler, very agile for his size, quicker than the Undertaker, better on the mic.

Asherdelampyr
07-10-2012, 05:18 PM
Lol, I think only people from Las Vegas would know about that dirty ass mud puddle.

OT: I don't think Mark Calloway got that lucky, he made a shitty gimmick pretty cool. MC is great in the ring, can cut a pretty good promo and he is very smart about the buisness, I think he would have made any gimmick work. With that being said I actually like Kane way better than I like Undertaker and I think he should have had the better career. Glen Jacobs is a great wrestler, very agile for his size, quicker than the Undertaker, better on the mic.
so true, but then making those 3 people smile a bit is what I do :)

YOUcanCALLmeCRACK
07-10-2012, 05:26 PM
So I was talking to someone the other day about Undertaker's streak, and my point was one day the streak will end no matter what, even if he retires undefeated the streak will end (get to a point where it won't grow anymore).

Then my friends answer was, 'Whatever I don't care he sucks anyway', at first i was like WTF, but the more i though about it my friend actually had a point, granted I don't think he meant it in the way I have now deciphered it.

So my question is did Mark William Calaway 'The undertaker', get lucky and just get handed a gimmick that requires little to no ability, he is basically a wrestling zombie and just doesn't have to sell any moves, never has to cut a memorable promo, he just has to keep getting up.


Thoughts?

Just picturing that made me laugh.

As for the streak, I bet they did not have it planned at first. He was just booked to win coincidentally several WMs in a row and they decided to go with it. However, da Undertaker did his gimmick so well it looked easy. If anything, it is harder to sell PPVs and stuff when you can not really talk! In short, your friend is a moron :)

Haruko Haruhara
07-10-2012, 05:31 PM
So I was talking to someone the other day about Undertaker's streak, and my point was one day the streak will end no matter what, even if he retires undefeated the streak will end (get to a point where it won't grow anymore).

Then my friends answer was, 'Whatever I don't care he sucks anyway', at first i was like WTF, but the more i though about it my friend actually had a point, granted I don't think he meant it in the way I have now deciphered it.

So my question is did Mark William Calaway 'The undertaker', get lucky and just get handed a gimmick that requires little to no ability, he is basically a wrestling zombie and just doesn't have to sell any moves, never has to cut a memorable promo, he just has to keep getting up.


Thoughts?

Just because something "stops" does not mean it "ends".

Bodom
07-10-2012, 05:37 PM
Does referring to Undertaker by his real name make you feel special?

Asherdelampyr
07-10-2012, 05:38 PM
Does referring to Undertaker by his real name make you feel special?
to be fair, I'm pretty sure he did it to separate man from gimmick :p

Bodom
07-10-2012, 05:41 PM
to be fair, I'm pretty sure he did it to separate man from gimmick :p

That's still silly.

clrj3514
07-10-2012, 05:42 PM
Like others I think Calaway got one of those crappy dime-a-dozen 80s/90s gimmicks & made it work. I'm a big fan!

Asherdelampyr
07-10-2012, 05:42 PM
That's still silly.

I like t hat he used his middle name, like's hes ome kid's mom
"Mark William Calaway, you get your little ass over here NOW"

gav3star
07-10-2012, 05:59 PM
[QUOTE= Let's not go one dimensional either. Cough cough...American Bad Ass....cough.[/QUOTE]

Wooaaaaah man! What a statement!! The ABA gimmick was fricking sweeeet!! It's my most enjoyable period of Taker's career for me! The fact he was an absolute badass!!

Asherdelampyr
07-10-2012, 06:02 PM
Wooaaaaah man! What a statement!! The ABA gimmick was fricking sweeeet!! It's my most enjoyable period of Taker's career for me! The fact he was an absolute badass!!
I rather enjoyed it, actually wish he had just kept it. but then, I was born to and raised by a bunch of bikers, so I may be a bit biased.

Kenny Kaos
07-10-2012, 06:09 PM
I am not a huge Undertaker fan, but suggest Mark Calaway is LUCKY is just plain silly. You don't be lucky for 20 plus years. While I am not a fan of the character he has worked his ass for for over 2 decades and deserves respect from every single fan of wrestling for what he's given to the business

gav3star
07-10-2012, 06:12 PM
I was just watching Taker dvd's today. Taker/Vince Buried alive ... with the Kane interference. The the subtle move away from the ABA back to the Deadman :( Taker/Kane at WM.

I loved the American Badass, the further he took it away from the Deadman, the more I loved it. Big Evil was superb, and his t-shirts at that point were sweet haha. Considering getting some on ebay atm.

It especially got better when he changed his music from Kid Rock to ... 'Dead man walking... you've done it now, you've gone and made a big mistake' his Big Evil theme. Was nothing better than hearing that.

For me personally I love Taker, but he was at his finest when he was the ABA for me.

Kenny Kaos
07-10-2012, 06:23 PM
It especially got better when he changed his music from Kid Rock to ... 'Dead man walking... you've done it now, you've gone and made a big mistake' his Big Evil theme. Was nothing better than hearing that.

For me personally I love Taker, but he was at his finest when he was the ABA for me.

Agreed. Only time I really liked him. When he beat Hogan for the Undisputed title...ahh, them were the days....Maven in the Royal Rumble...lolz, so many lolz

gav3star
07-10-2012, 06:30 PM
I could probally spunk my load about the ABA gimmick all night, but the Brother's Of Destruction .... Kane organ / Taker's rolling theme was badass.

Don't think I've enjoyed Kane since after his last masked BOD run.

MachoManFan
07-10-2012, 07:02 PM
I remember when 'Taker was younger he was a F%$*%$G MONSTER! Seriously for someone his size the speed and agility he had in the ring was as much a part of The Undertaker gimmick success as any of the superhuman resiliance (not selling - I'll come back to that) and smoke and lights. I've never really rated him as a great talker but a wrestler doesn't need to be a great talker when he can convey so much physically. Remember the night HBK retired on RAW? When HHH came out and cried and everyone else came out and gave him an ovation and all Mark Calloway needed to do was walk onto the stage and doff his hat.
Throughout his career his in ring work has been on par with anyone else you could name, his ring psychology is great and the very fact he's the only wrestler left in WWE allowed to use a piledriver speaks for itself. As for not selling, about 5 minutes in to VS. HBK 2 at Wrestlemania Undertaker appeared to tweak his ankle. He hobbled on that ankle and sold the pain throughout the match to the extend I was worried the match would end up short as a result. That was SELLING! If you watch the match again he was always sure footed when he went old school or was delivering a move and let's not forget the times he's been beaten, in matches when 'Taker loses he looks destroyed.

To answer the original question, did Mark Calloway get lucky with The Undertaker? Yes, that gimmick is gold. Sheamus, Wade Barrett, Matt Morgan, Kane and even John Cena could have had great main event success with that gimmick (subject to a time machine and us not knowing them from previous gimmicks). BUT I honestly don't think anyone else could have sustained a main event career for as long as Mark Calloway has in that role. Would Mean Mark Calloway still be here without The Undertaker? Almost certainly. For all the reasons I stated above. I can't believe he wouldn't have found another successful gimmick, hey ABA was essentially a different gimmick, and been a main eventer anyway.

Just realised how long and ranty this post is.
TL;DR OMG 'Taker is God you fool! #MarkingOutForMark"THEUNDERTAKER"Calloway

The Brown One
07-10-2012, 08:07 PM
Of course Mark Calaway didn't get lucky. If the Undertaker gimmick was given to someone else, I doubt they would have been as popular as Mark Calaway. Mark is a loyal, well respected veteran. And believe it or not, he actually does have mic skills, and wrestling ability. Hes the main reason most of us watch Wrestlemania every year, putting on MOTYs consistently. Plus his promos don't have to take long, and don't require him to scream into the mic. He strikes fear into the hearts of his opponents with his promos. Hes different, in a good way. Like someone else said, if the gimmick had been given to someone else that's big, they wouldn't have done anywhere as well as Mark, as Mark is a hard worker, who knew how to make that unrealistic gimmick into a legend.

TheRockerGother
07-10-2012, 08:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmIcSwzxgww&feature=fvwrel

6:30

justin sane
07-10-2012, 09:02 PM
Thank you Rockergother, at this match I was a teen and Undertaker was my absolute favorite, I legitimately pissed that he lost that match and when he rose on the titantron I had actual chills running up my spine.

akbar
07-10-2012, 09:14 PM
Don't ever question one of the greatest at his talent. :)

masakaritko
07-10-2012, 09:52 PM
Ok, here is my input. Like some of you have said, the Undertaker gimmick would not have worked without good ol' Mark Calaway. Nobody else could have pulled it off. The reason it worked is because he's a big guy at almost 7 ft. that could move around the ring like HBK. most wrestlers in general couldn't move that well around the ring like that before him (sans HBK and only a few others like Hennig, Bret Hart, etc.) Even if he didn't have the Undertaker gimmick he'd still be known as the first and only near 7 footer that could move around the ring so fast and gracefully. But, it added to the mystique that is the Undertaker. Now, I don't think he would have had the same legacy or have been more successful without the gimmick. He would be lower than guys like Triple H, HBK, etc. Instead, with the gimmick, he's on a completely different level than any other star in history. He's in his own league. Now, onto the fun part. The Streak, however, was by accident. They kept booking him to win at WM, not even realizing that he was undefeated until all of a sudden they realized one day that he already had an amazing WM undefeated record, so they decided to capitalize on it. The streak didn't become a big deal until the 2000's hit. In fact, before he was like 10-0, not many people even noticed it. So in that respect, he did get lucky, but even without the streak he would have still had an amazing legacy. Before the streak became a big deal, he was already one of the most over guys in history.

Lucas Chapel
07-11-2012, 01:36 AM
Calloway's tallent is what makes The Undertaker so awesome. Thank god they didn't give him a dancing gimmick.

Cabers
07-11-2012, 03:08 PM
I think your friend may be referencing the undertaker of now. Yes he is getting predictable but come on its been over 20 years you keep a gimmick that long Tensai lasted about 2 weeks with his one!

Dillon
07-12-2012, 02:01 PM
Yes he was incredibly lucky!
But not for the reasons you think,
His luck came when he debuted, as he was apparently originally intended to debut as 'The Gobbledy Gooker' the same night.
Saw 'Taker acknowledge it in an interview once, but I can't find the clip.
But in portraying the the gimmick itself, no luck, just skill.

MrVoteLibertarian
07-12-2012, 09:29 PM
I see what the OP is saying...disagree but see your point.