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Mr. Ziggles
06-18-2012, 06:38 AM
I was actually starting to like Cena this year, since he wa starting to come across more 'real' and less godlike, but ever since his lose to the Rock he is back to the same old Supercena, his two PPV victories have basically been squash matches but then he turns it around at the last minute with his 5 moves of doom....

Same old defying the odds shit.

I don't really see what he can do now since the champ is face, Big Johnny is gone and Big show is going to be fueding with Brodus, so what is left for Cena to do they really should have had him take some ime off while there isnt really anything for him, but whatever what do I know.

bartish2
06-18-2012, 07:21 AM
as I said in the PPV results, cena should have lost... give us a break from him, he can deal with his divorce etc... but nooooooo supercena had to win again with the typical get beaten up and last minute comeback to win against all odds to win for your hard earned dollars. Now they fired big johnny when he will be rehired within weeks for summer slam anyways... so there really was no point to the main event. I already predicted the main event before it even happened, and what do you know? Supercena strikes again, same crap different day. This is why their sales & ratings are decreasing. Its the same crap a different day predictable script writing. This is why I stream now. Now what is he going to do? Probably going to feed their big summer angle to him where he will ruin another angle (erm nexus anyone?). This is why I'm giving up on wwe this summer, its TNA for me/

Mikeyboy7777777
06-18-2012, 07:39 AM
everything on the ppv was predictable

Mr. Ziggles
06-18-2012, 07:51 AM
everything on the ppv was predictable


Maybe so going by the build up you could have predicted most of the results, but you could predict the Cena Show match without even following the story, well I got it wrong in the contest anyway serves me right for expecting something different....

Seriously though its shit like this that is sending WWE down the toilet, I was never really anti PG but these last few months have some of the worst stuff I have ever seen.

bartish2
06-18-2012, 07:54 AM
Seriously though its shit like this that is sending WWE down the toilet, I was never really anti PG but these last few months have some of the worst stuff I have ever seen.
same here.

BennyTheBall
06-18-2012, 08:14 AM
John Cena for Raw GM!

CreatureOfTheNight
06-18-2012, 09:04 AM
I usually don't complain about WWE even though sometimes the stuff they do makes me question why people still watch but Cena has officially bored the living crap out of me. Every single PPV with the exception of WM 28 vs The Rock, MITB 2011, SummerSlam 2008 and One Night Stand 2006 and TLC 2009 it's the same old bullshit that we've had since 2005. I totally agree with you. While Cena was embroiled in the feud with The Rock he came across much more "genuine" than what we're used to from Cena. Then Lesnar comes back and beats the living Fruity Pebbles out of him and he comes back and beats him. Are we supposed to believe that? Then we get the most predictable heel turn in recent memory with Big Show and guess who he faces? CENA! And they put on a boring ass match with the same outcome that we've become accustomed to for over half a decade. The only saving grace through all this has been that WWE is putting on some great, great matches on PPV thanks to the likes of Sheamus, Ziggler, Punk, Bryan and even KANE last night of all people. WWE really needs to do something new with Cena. Not have him come out every Monday Night, say how we have a great crowd tonight, make some stupid poop joke and make fun of himself. Okay rant over.

URATOOL
06-18-2012, 09:13 AM
You guys just dont get if do you. That match wasn't about Cena. It was about building Big Show and Brodus up.

K2Jelly
06-18-2012, 09:14 AM
It seems to me that the people, who gripe about Cena, complain about him solely for match results rather than for his character.

He is literally the EXACT SAME person that he's been for the past 5 years. I get that him losing makes him more human but if you're disappointed in the way he turns out when he wins an important PPV match rather than during the feud, leading into the match, itself, then you really need to reevaluate where you stand with Cena because it sounds like you're bashing creative direction rather than Cena himself and what he stands for along with what his character is.

rhyno535
06-18-2012, 09:41 AM
Like the other guys said, i usually dont complain about WWE ( i enjoy TNA now more than WWE) but this time i just need to express my feelings about WWE. Last night we saw one of the worst Steel Cage matches in history (what i can remember). And it was the main event. The last 5 PPVs Cena have been main eventing in all those 5. The only 2good matches were at WM and Extreme Rules (which was bad imo). We dont like the character SuperCena and we HATE! the writers who writes this piece of crap every week. Sure i couldnt do a better job than them but give me some good writers who knows what wrestling is. For the first time in my 13years of watching WWE im thinking about to stop watching it because of the writers and the awful bookings. Come on a TUXEDO MATCH! must be on the top 10 list for worst matches in the 21s century. We want a couple of GOOD storylines (ex Punk,bryan,kane and AJ) and not a crappy squash match on a PPV card.

Mr. Ziggles
06-18-2012, 10:46 AM
It seems to me that the people, who gripe about Cena, complain about him solely for match results rather than for his character.

He is literally the EXACT SAME person that he's been for the past 5 years. I get that him losing makes him more human but if you're disappointed in the way he turns out when he wins an important PPV match rather than during the feud, leading into the match, itself, then you really need to reevaluate where you stand with Cena because it sounds like you're bashing creative direction rather than Cena himself and what he stands for along with what his character is.

I have nothing against Cena himself, as I said during the build up to Mania I was was actually starting to like him, but now were back to the same old rubbish, if he is booked like a real person and not a demi-god then his character seems less stale, well it does to me anyway.

K2Jelly
06-18-2012, 10:47 AM
I have nothing against Cena himself, as I said during the build up to Mania I was was actually starting to like him, but now were back to the same old rubbish, if he is booked like a real person and not a demi-god then his character seems less stale, well it does to me anyway.

Do you realize how Cena even won?

It took Clay, Ryder, Marella, etc. to hold Big Show back and allow Cena to win. He didn't do it on his own.

PSOjedi
06-18-2012, 11:01 AM
I was actually starting to like Cena this year, since he wa starting to come across more 'real' and less godlike, but ever since his lose to the Rock he is back to the same old Supercena, his two PPV victories have basically been squash matches but then he turns it around at the last minute with his 5 moves of doom....

Same old defying the odds shit.

I don't really see what he can do now since the champ is face, Big Johnny is gone and Big show is going to be fueding with Brodus, so what is left for Cena to do they really should have had him take some ime off while there isnt really anything for him, but whatever what do I know.
I can not agree more. I don't know how the WWE can stop this 7 years same old non watchable boring attitude !!!! I even don't remember when was the last time I watched a Cena match without fast forwarding it. 4 years ? 5 ? Don't remember.... Ridiculous

PSOjedi
06-18-2012, 11:04 AM
You guys just dont get if do you. That match wasn't about Cena. It was about building Big Show and Brodus up.

You just don't get what the problem is. The problem is not making a (horrible) match to build a fued, the problem is having Cena since 2005/2006 doing nothing in the ring. This is THE problem.

Viperfish
06-18-2012, 11:06 AM
Cena's just not allowed to win. Period. That's all it is.

Why wasn't anyone crying Super Punk when all it took last week on Raw was a tiny elbow from his corner, a kick and then an elbow off the top rope to put Daniel Bryan down... one week before the PPV? Some of you really are ridiculous.

K2Jelly
06-18-2012, 11:06 AM
You just don't get what the problem is. The problem is not making a (horrible) match to build a fued, the problem is having Cena since 2005/2006 doing nothing in the ring. This is THE problem.

And by "doing nothing in the ring", you mean...?

K2Jelly
06-18-2012, 11:07 AM
Cena's just not allowed to win. Period. That's all it is.

Why wasn't anyone crying Super Punk when all it took last week on Raw was a tiny elbow from his corner, a kick and then an elbow off the top rope to put Daniel Bryan down... one week before the PPV? Some of you really are ridiculous.

I think we'e found a solution. Everyone happy with this?

PSOjedi
06-18-2012, 11:10 AM
Why wasn't anyone crying Super Punk when all it took last week on Raw was a tiny elbow from his corner, a kick and then an elbow off the top rope to put Daniel Bryan down... one week before the PPV? Some of you really are ridiculous.
Like Uratool, you don't see the problem. Perhaps Punk won quickly wthout putting a hell of a match, but it was just a "one time a decade" thing. He is not doing that weeks after weeks, ppv after ppv, for years now.

K2Jelly
06-18-2012, 11:12 AM
Like Uratool, you don't see the problem. Perhaps Punk won quickly wthout putting a hell of a match, but it was just a "one time a decade" thing. He is not doing that weeks after weeks, ppv after ppv, for years now.

So, repetitive wrestling trends are okay as long as it doesn't extend to a long time?

Mojo Tartarus
06-18-2012, 11:14 AM
I think Cena's character is a stroke of genius on WWE's part to be honest. He is the best marketing device they've had in the last 10 years! Whether you love him, loath him or are indifferent you're all still talking about him, constantly. Threads, blogs and discussions are created daily and on numerous occasions. He sells merch by the ton and he gets an emotional response from all the audience, good or bad!

I'd love to have a marketing tool like that!

PSOjedi
06-18-2012, 11:18 AM
So, repetitive wrestling trends are okay as long as it doesn't extend to a long time?
I don't understand what you're trying to say (sorry English is not my 1st language). What I'm trying to say is that Punk is always entertaining in the ring (IMO of course), and he wrestles. That's important. Cena does not wrestle. He only takes beatings after beatings during the entire match, then win or lose. The match that really made me sick of that situation was the Cena vs Orton, 1 hour iron match, years ago. Cena did absolutely nothing during the entire match but taking a 1 hour beating..........then win ! Absolutely not entertaing. And this, must stop, but probably won't due to his position in the company. I have nothing against Cena, just against his character.

Viperfish
06-18-2012, 11:22 AM
I know some people are going to hate me for this but all this talk of Cena doing nothing during entire matches only to come back and get a win reminds me of the Rocky movies.

K2Jelly
06-18-2012, 11:25 AM
I know some people are going to hate me for this but all this talk of Cena doing nothing during entire matches only to come back and get a win reminds me of the Rocky movies.

Except Lang v. Balboa II.

Rocky CLEANED his clock in that one.

On topic, I don't get why people like to act Punk doesn't "come back from getting beaten down" routine as well. He's been doing it in nearly every one on one match he's had since the beginning of the year and a little before that.

johnnydropkicks
06-18-2012, 11:29 AM
kinda hopin for a win for the big show. unlike a lot of guys I was liking the new giant thing. he's done some of his best promos ever. I thought they were up there with really great promos of past. I try to keep an open mind about Cena and his winning from a common sense perspective...

but I wanted show to take this crap that he did not

Mr. Ziggles
06-18-2012, 11:54 AM
Cena's just not allowed to win. Period. That's all it is.

Why wasn't anyone crying Super Punk when all it took last week on Raw was a tiny elbow from his corner, a kick and then an elbow off the top rope to put Daniel Bryan down... one week before the PPV? Some of you really are ridiculous.

There is difference bewtween doing that in a Tag match on Raw, compared to the main event of a PPV, when was the last time Punk did that in a PPV? nevermind in the main event.

EDIT: plus in general that is how tag matches go, one person gets squashed gets a 'hot tag' and their team wins.

Also during Punks fueds he always looked human, against Ziggler he lost like 4 matches in a row, against Jericho he was been layed out in the ring on a constant basis.

Now lets look at Cena's fueds this year, against Kane cena himself never took a hit aprt from getting chokeslammed a couple of times is was Ryder putting over Kane to make him seem like a threat to Cena, against Rock well cena had the match won but he went to rub salt in Rock wound and got caught, against Brock he bust his lip, against Big show he got punched in the face.


Now we'll look at the matches themselves.

Punk VS Ziggler, 4*
Punk VS Jericho, 5*
Punk VS Bryan 5*
Punk VS Bryan VS Kane 4*

Cena VS Kane 3.5*
Cena vS Kane (ambluance match) cant rate because I fell asleep.
cena VS Rock 4* at best just way to slow
cena VS Brock 3* just a squash then comeback
Cena VS Big Johnny 1*
Cena VS Show 2.5* bull crap ending with the refs knocked out nobody was there to call for bell, after the comeback

K2Jelly
06-18-2012, 11:57 AM
There is difference bewtween doing that in a Tag match on Raw, compared to the main event of a PPV, when was the last time Punk did that in a PPV? nevermind in the main event.

Also during Punks fueds he always looked human, against Ziggler he lost like 4 matches in a row, against Jericho he was been layed out in the ring on a constant basis.

Now lets look at Cena's fueds this year, against Kane cena himself never took a hit aprt from getting chokeslammed a couple of times is was Ryder putting over Kane to make him seem like a threat to Cena, against Rock well cena had the match won but he went to rub salt in Rock wound and got caught, against Brock he bust his lip, against Big show he got punched in the face.


Now we'll look at the matches themselves.

Punk VS Ziggler, 4*
Punk VS Jericho, 5*
Punk VS Bryan 5*
Punk VS Bryan VS Kane 4*

Cena VS Kane 3.5*
Cena vS Kane (ambluance match) cant rate because I fell asleep.
cena VS Rock 4* at best just way to slow
cena VS Brock 3* just a squash then comeback
Cena VS Big Johnny 1*
Cena VS Show 2.5* bull crap ending with the refs knocked out nobody was there to call for bell, after the comeback

Are you really trying to base your argument off of biased ratings?

Bodom
06-18-2012, 12:00 PM
Meh. It was either this or see Cena get fired for the 200th time, only to come back the next night.

bearkg88
06-18-2012, 01:00 PM
I think Cena's character is a stroke of genius on WWE's part to be honest. He is the best marketing device they've had in the last 10 years! Whether you love him, loath him or are indifferent you're all still talking about him, constantly. Threads, blogs and discussions are created daily and on numerous occasions. He sells merch by the ton and he gets an emotional response from all the audience, good or bad!

I'd love to have a marketing tool like that!

Mojo has it spot on. That's why I like Cena. He is that person that is always on peoples tongues.

Lowki
06-18-2012, 01:00 PM
Are you really trying to base your argument off of biased ratings?
He's got a point though. Punk is nowhere near super Cena. Cena never loses cleanly and never gets beat down without some kind of foul play involved.

He's a great marketing tool, but the old formula of being a "super" character is supposed to be entertaining. You pay to see HOW he will get out of this prediciment. It's like the A-team. Whatever they were hired to do, they did it. They always got in a sticky situation, but eventually get out of it. You KNOW they'll eventually get out of it, but the excitement was watching how they would manage to do it. If there were different ways for Cena to get out of beatings i wouldn't mind. But every match has the same ending - which was why i thought no way out was slightly different. I knew Cena would win. I didn't think Clay etc would come out to help him - it wasn't your typical super cena victory, it shows that Big Show was that much of a threat, that Cena got lucky. He won due to Big Show attacking people who united against him.
The problem with Cena is that he is usually placed in matches as an underdog. If they gave him feuds he wins easily it would be slightly better and would be better than every feud being Cena as an underdog. He wins so much, who can actually buy him as an underdog? Most prediction games have Cena as clear favourite... That's definitely not an underdog in my book and that's what annoys me most. If he actually lost a little more, you could buy into the fact that it's possible for him to be an underdog.


CM Punk is hardly the same when he pretty much trades offence in every one on one match i've seen. Yes, he has his few moves of doom, but besides GTS, knee into a bulldog and the macho elbow, he tends to have a lot of other moves in his arsenal.

K2Jelly
06-18-2012, 01:03 PM
He's got a point though. Punk is nowhere near super Cena. Cena never loses cleanly and never gets beat down without some kind of foul play involved.

Punk is able to lose cleanly more times than Cena but that doesn't excuse the fact that Punk incorporates the same "rising against the odds" routine in nearly every one of his matches nowadays.

Bodom
06-18-2012, 01:11 PM
Punk is able to lose cleanly more times than Cena but that doesn't excuse the fact that Punk incorporates the same "rising against the odds" routine in nearly every one of his matches nowadays.

I'm sure once Punk goes 7+ years with the same "rise against the odds" routine, people will be just as bothered by it.

Lowki
06-18-2012, 01:18 PM
Punk is able to lose cleanly more times than Cena but that doesn't excuse the fact that Punk incorporates the same "rising against the odds" routine in nearly every one of his matches nowadays.
Punk has pretty even contests if i'm honest. Cena rarely does. If he actually lost, then you could buy him actually rising against odds as an underdog. What WWE is doing is the equivalent of betting offices having mayweather as underdog every night. We all know that guy is going to win so he's always heavy favourite. I know it's hard to work logic into wrestling, but i can never understand why they always have him as underdog when he wins so often. I know Cena's strong, but how they thought people would buy him dragging show back into the ring...

SLEEPY LOCO1
06-18-2012, 01:20 PM
I'm sure once Punk goes 7+ years with the same "rise against the odds" routine, people will be just as bothered by it.

I don't think it will take that long. He has only been a top face with the "rise against the odds" thing for about a year now and people are already jumping on that bandwagon.

Bodom
06-18-2012, 01:26 PM
I don't think it will take that long. He has only been a top face with the "rise against the odds" thing for about a year now and people are already jumping on that bandwagon.

Very small majority though.

Not doubting that more bandwagoners will hop on. Lord knows there's plenty of those.

rhyno535
06-18-2012, 01:28 PM
I wrote this on a blog because it was about the same thing as this.

I found some interesting facts on Wikipedia. I checked the last years ppvs (From June 2011-June 2012) and found out that on the 14 ppvs there was only 6 of them who had a main event match for the WWE title or World Heavyweight Title. On 14 ppvs John Cena main evented 11 of them.
I wanted to compare these numbers to the Attitude era because we guys always want to compare this era with the current era.

So i checked the Attitude Era ppvs from June 2000 to June 2001 and there was 14 ppvs (not including rebellion). On these 14 ppvs The Rock main evented 8 of them and on these 14 ppvs the WWE title was on the main event on 12 out 14 ppvs, thats fact.

johnnydropkicks
06-18-2012, 01:43 PM
Meh. It was either this or see Cena get fired for the 200th time, only to come back the next night.

But on the other hand Bodom, it could pave the way for a return of Juan Cena.

HeelTurn
06-18-2012, 01:46 PM
They backed themselves into a corner really with all the added stips, I mean Cena being fired again would have just been dumb as we all know he would be back the next night, plus it gives them the chance to do something with Big Johnny and maybe bring back Flair or someone as GM.

Bodom
06-18-2012, 01:47 PM
But on the other hand Bodom, it could pave the way for a return of Juan Cena.

I really can't argue against this.

johnnydropkicks
06-18-2012, 01:47 PM
sig hotness factor overload. I think I'm gonna get one of these hot gifs sig.

they're just so good for the world.

they're like cornflakes but for your forum.

Mr. Ziggles
06-18-2012, 01:53 PM
Punk is able to lose cleanly more times than Cena but that doesn't excuse the fact that Punk incorporates the same "rising against the odds" routine in nearly every one of his matches nowadays.


To me Punk is yet to rise against the odds, he always seems to be on even ground with his opponents to me.

Despite all the years Cena has been on top as far as I can remeber there has only been about three full time roster members who have posed a believable threat, Edge, Orton and Punk.

This is why I actually wouldnt mind seeing Taker VS cena at mania because Cena comes across as head and shoulder above everyone else, so he would pose a believeable threat to Taker's streak, but i'm going off track.

If WWE had a heel equal to Cena for him to play off it may not seem as bad, but its been years since he has had a classic fued, while Punk posed a legit threat it wasnt really a Cena VS Punk fued, it was more Punk VS The establishment.

Cabers
06-18-2012, 02:06 PM
I am actually bored to death i fast forwarded through the match just to get the result not at all shocked i might add.

ParagonOfVirtue
06-18-2012, 06:06 PM
I understand where people come from when they hate on Cena for his "overcoming the odds" comeback, five moves of doom, etc. What I don't understand is why it is such a big deal. Every name that you remember, and every name you don't, all did the same thing. Undertaker, you love him right? He's going to get beat down until he sits up, and then he's going to do his 5 moves and win. Hulk Hogan, mixed reaction there, but you loved him once right? He had 5 moves too. Steve Austin, he's your favorite right? Attitude Era was always the best right? There were more people in the Attitude Era who wrestle like Cena then there are now. Was Mick Foley a stunning technician in the ring? Was Austin? Was The Rock? Was HHH? Was Shawn? Was Taker? Was Kane? Wrestlers have movesets, some larger or smaller than others. Cena is what you call a BRAWLER. This used to not be such a ridiculous notion. I mean, think of the APA. I bet the only thing you remember about them was them smoking, drinking, playing cards, being funny, and kicking ass. But I guarantee you the only move you remember from them is what? A freakin clothesline. A CLOTHESLINE. And they were awesome. If you want technical wrestling in every match, I suggest you change the channel. If you want a top star(regardless if it's cena or not), who won't take a beating, then use 5 moves to "come back" and snag a win, I suggest you change the channel.

URATOOL
06-18-2012, 06:14 PM
I love "John Cena" threads. The WWE is not a sports league. It is an entertainment company. The sooner people just learn to accept that the sooner they can stop crying about John and move on. He doesn't appeal to you and you don't like the way he performs. You don't like the repetitive nature of his wins. You don't like his under dog build ups, followed by the beat down/comeback endings. Awwwww..... Well tough. Millions of others love the guy. He sells merch and PPV buys like no one else. He is a hero to millions of kids and that is where the money comes from that pays the wages of the guys you get hard-ons for.

Without Cena and before him Hogan and after him *insert the next unbeatable super face* your beloved entertainment company wouldn't be the huge money machine that has entertained you for many years. So for your own sake I suggest you just suck it up and either learn to find what entertainment value you can in his matches or just ignore him. Cause he ain't going anywhere and he ain't changing, no matter how much you whine.

bearkg88
06-18-2012, 06:16 PM
i love "john cena" threads. The wwe is not a sports league. It is an entertainment company. The sooner people just learn to accept that the sooner they can stop crying about john and move on. He doesn't appeal to you and you don't like the way he performs. You don't like the repetitive nature of his wins. You don't like his under dog build ups, followed by the beat down/comeback endings. Awwwww..... Well tough. Millions of others love the guy. He sells merch and ppv buys like no one else. He is a hero to millions of kids and that is where the money comes from that pays the wages of the guys you get hard-ons for.

Without cena and before him hogan and after him *insert the next unbeatable super face* your beloved entertainment company wouldn't be the huge money machine that has entertained you for many years. So for your own sake i suggest you just suck it up and either learn to find what entertainment value you can in his matches or just ignore him. Cause he ain't going anywhere and he ain't changing, no matter how much you whine.

spoken for the truth!