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YOUcanCALLmeCRACK
05-27-2012, 08:33 AM
I honestly believe WWE did themselves a disservice labeling themselves as sports entertainment rather than wrestling. Ask anyone who doesn't watch wrestling, even on a casual basis, and they will tell you about how fake pro-wrestling is comparing it to a "soap-opera for men." However, I think labeling themselves as Sports Entertainment created a unique opportunity. WWE is so focuses on pushing the entertainment side that I think they are missing a huge opportunity on the sports side.

Sports cross all boundaries of race, age, nationalities, and cultures. The drama that unfolds in these events grabs people and makes them lifelong fans. The largest promoter (in the USA at least) of all sports is ESPN. I am not sure how true their slogan "the worldwide leader in sports" is, but in the US, it has a huge reach. If I was WWE, I would approach ESPN and sign a deal to have them show highlights and create a unbiased pro-wrestling news program that air once a week.

How cool would it be to flick on the SportsCenter (their daily highlight show) and see the results of Raw or PPVs? I think not only will these give WWE, and all of pro-wrestling, some credibility to the "wrestling is fake" crowd, but give the wrestling industry as a whole more exposure. Right now, it needs more exposure.

At the end of the day, sports cross all boundaries of race, age, nationalities, and cultures. The drama that unfolds in these events grabs people and makes them lifelong fans. I think this community proves that this is true for pro-wrestling too.

Thoughts?

P.S. - In reality, to make this happen, we would not even need WWE to approach ESPN. I bet if a petition circulated online and was sent to ESPN it would only be a matter of time.

tchocky360
05-27-2012, 08:57 AM
Pro-wrestling although athletic, isn't really a sport though. Sport is competition, you can't have a proper sports competition where the results are fixed.
Although it would be good for the WWE for exposure, I can't see it being good for ESPN or what they would get from this.
I'm not saying I doubt there will ever be a wrestling show on a sports network, we get PPV's here on SkySports, but to put wrestling results consistently alongside actual sporting results isn't something I'd like.
The two aren't the same.


edited.
I actually agree with your friend. WWE/TNA are quite a lot like a soap opera. The Y2J-CM Punk thing about Punk's family reminded me of the South Park episode that makes a good point about the same thing.

There's a mix of acting and atheticism, we know it's fake, but we get behind charaters we like, we know their storyline histories, we talk about where it's all leading too, try to guess potential plot twists..

I'd argue it's more a soap than it is a sport. Just with more multi-talented individuals than most soaps.

YOUcanCALLmeCRACK
05-27-2012, 09:06 AM
Pro-wrestling although athletic, isn't really a sport though. Sport is competition, you can't have a proper sports competition where the results are fixed.
Although it would be good for the WWE for exposure, I can't see it being good for ESPN or what they would get from this.
I'm not saying I doubt there will ever be a wrestling show on a sports network, we get PPV's here on SkySports, but to put wrestling results consistently alongside actual sporting results isn't something I'd like.
The two aren't the same.

(For the sake of debate)

From dictionary.com:

Sport (noun) - an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive, as racing, baseball, tennis,golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

It does leave much room for interpretation. Pro-Wrestling does require skill and physical prowess. If the results were publicly known, I would agree, but that is not a requirement by definition regardless. The only thing the fixed results affect is the gambling portion and that still does not stop Vegas from posting Wrestlemania odds.

impercua
05-27-2012, 09:25 AM
I think it's an interesting idea and would definitely help 'legitimise' WWE to those who see it only as 'fake' or a 'soap opera'. It would be interesting to see very brief highlights or just results pop up on a genuine sports show. It would give an extra layer to the theatre of the whole WWE production - bringing that theatre into real life and blurring the line.

The only problem is that art and science rarely mix (in this case referring to scripted entertainment and actual sport). WWE could benefit from their "theatre" being shown on a genuine, real life sportshow, but ESPN would gain nothing. If anything, it would damage their reputation in professional sports journalism. After all, they would be reporting results of a scripted event as if it were real. Reporting on WWE, even if only as results or highlights, would transcend their genre and audience (they may as well start reviewing a sitcom if they review WWE), but they'd also be reporting false information, because WWE is "almost" a sport. It's not entertainment enough to be on ESPN and for people to see it as a cute gimmick or fun addition. It's too much a sport in itself, only its outcomes are decided - so it would be wrong for any true sports network to essentially lie to their audience and report it as true, (even if everyone already know it's scripted).

Even though it wouldn't happen, it still would be interesting to see :)

tchocky360
05-27-2012, 10:32 AM
(For the sake of debate)

From dictionary.com:

Sport (noun) - an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive, as racing, baseball, tennis,golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

It does leave much room for interpretation. Pro-Wrestling does require skill and physical prowess. If the results were publicly known, I would agree, but that is not a requirement by definition regardless. The only thing the fixed results affect is the gambling portion and that still does not stop Vegas from posting Wrestlemania odds.

I disagree that fixed results only affect gambling. If all of Ali's boxing matches were scripted finishes, he wouldn't be an idol to boxers.
If it was scripted that Man City would win the Premier League, than Man Utd being caught up and beaten on the final day wouldn't mean anything either.
In ways there are similarities, but there isn't competition in a wrestling ring. This is one of the biggest reasons I don't think it'd work.
The guys in the ring work together, there is no real rivalry, there is no true underdog comeback...
Some of the most exciting parts of sport, wrestling can only pay lip service to.
Wrestling can be very exciting, it takes a tremendous amount of talent and skill to be the best, but it isn't competition, it isn't sport for that reason.

derrrr01
05-27-2012, 12:42 PM
They used to show old episodes of like AWA on ESPN classic. Not sure if they still do, but at least that shows ESPN kind of considers it a sport.

ihearvoices
05-27-2012, 04:53 PM
I disagree that fixed results only affect gambling. If all of Ali's boxing matches were scripted finishes, he wouldn't be an idol to boxers.
If it was scripted that Man City would win the Premier League, than Man Utd being caught up and beaten on the final day wouldn't mean anything either.
In ways there are similarities, but there isn't competition in a wrestling ring. This is one of the biggest reasons I don't think it'd work.
The guys in the ring work together, there is no real rivalry, there is no true underdog comeback...
Some of the most exciting parts of sport, wrestling can only pay lip service to.
Wrestling can be very exciting, it takes a tremendous amount of talent and skill to be the best, but it isn't competition, it isn't sport for that reason.

I agree with this guy but It would be good to see WWE get coverage over on ESPN on a weekly basis even if its just for the PPV or to say who want what match on Raw & Smackdown.

CobraNightviper
05-27-2012, 08:08 PM
Didnt they used to have wwf on espn back in the 1990's I think it was1995 because I rember seeing HBK and Diesel on there promoting the Larence Taylor match at wrestlemania that year.

Viperfish
05-27-2012, 11:25 PM
ESPN covers poker. Case closed. Poker's not a sport, I don't care how many people argue with me and tell me that it is. In fact I'd love to ask the folks at ESPN "Why don't you cover wrestling?", and they'd say "Because it's not a sport.", and I'd say "But you cover poker.", and they'd start their backpedal. Wrestling on ESPN makes more sense than poker on ESPN does.

TAJIRI
05-28-2012, 12:59 AM
They show the UWF some weeks as well. Back in the day I remember those AWA on ESPN Classic episodes were just AWA on ESPN. :) And the Global Wrestling Federation was a weekly show on ESPN in the afternoons back in the early 90's.

tchocky360
05-28-2012, 05:17 AM
ESPN covers poker. Case closed. Poker's not a sport, I don't care how many people argue with me and tell me that it is. In fact I'd love to ask the folks at ESPN "Why don't you cover wrestling?", and they'd say "Because it's not a sport.", and I'd say "But you cover poker.", and they'd start their backpedal. Wrestling on ESPN makes more sense than poker on ESPN does.

Anyone from ESPN that backpedals from,
"Poker isn't a sport",
"Why not?"
"Because it isn't"

probably isn't in charge of anything important.

I can understand why ESPN would show it though, it's a popular game thats turned into a sport

In Poker's favour it is still competitive.
There is skill in reading your opponents, trying to figure what they must have and working out likelihoods of your hand being a good one or not.
Some of the games, go on for hours, it must take concentration to keep focused that long.

Like with anything luck can happen, but it's not a game of chance.
I think because contrasted with guys running around a field with a ball, people sat around a table doesn't seem like a sport, it's easy to be dismissive.

In my opinion, it is also still more of a sport than pro-wrestling because of the fact it has competition.

Keith Stone
05-28-2012, 06:10 AM
Anyone from ESPN that backpedals from,
"Poker isn't a sport",
"Why not?"
"Because it isn't"

probably isn't in charge of anything important.

I can understand why ESPN would show it though, it's a popular game thats turned into a sport

In Poker's favour it is still competitive.
There is skill in reading your opponents, trying to figure what they must have and working out likelihoods of your hand being a good one or not.
Some of the games, go on for hours, it must take concentration to keep focused that long.

Like with anything luck can happen, but it's not a game of chance.
I think because contrasted with guys running around a field with a ball, people sat around a table doesn't seem like a sport, it's easy to be dismissive.

In my opinion, it is also still more of a sport than pro-wrestling because of the fact it has competition.

Ohh my God!!!!!!!! lol sports involve athletes not guys who sit at a table playing poker, checkers, chess, or Candyland
Hell you can play video games in competitions it's still not a sport thou. There's competitve eating but hell no that's not a sport lol. A sport is physical and mental pro wrestling is more of a sport than any of those things. Pro wrestling involves cooperation between the two guys to perform moves that have to be performed right or get injured. You have to have endurance and stamina to last in long grueling matches. The outcome maybe determined beforehand but everybody wants to be the guy won does win. It's hard to describe pro wrestling as a sport because WWE has made it bad theater but watch some WCW matches from late 80's to mid 90's when the wrestling mattered. also watch the crusierweight matches too

tchocky360
05-28-2012, 06:25 AM
Ohh my God!!!!!!!! lol sports involve athletes not guys who sit at a table playing poker, checkers, chess, or Candyland
Hell you can play video games in competitions it's still not a sport thou. There's competitve eating but hell no that's not a sport lol. A sport is physical and mental pro wrestling is more of a sport than any of those things. Pro wrestling involves cooperation between the two guys to perform moves that have to be performed right or get injured. You have to have endurance and stamina to last in long grueling matches. The outcome maybe determined beforehand but everybody wants to be the guy won does win. It's hard to describe pro wrestling as a sport because WWE has made it bad theater but watch some WCW matches from late 80's to mid 90's when the wrestling mattered. also watch the crusierweight matches too

Chess is an Olympic sport, just putting that out there. So you don't need to be outside in a field for it to be a sport.

Also, even all that other stuff you mentioned, it still has opponents, you still can win a tournament or a match up.
You don't have that in pro-wrestling, it's two guys working together. There is no competitive aspect.

If you wanted make pro-wrestling a sport you'd have to divide match ups into teams.
Say Punk - Miz against Cena - Ziggler, and they could compete to have the more entertaining match.

Obviously the winner of the matches individually don't count as winners, it'd have to go to either Punk-Miz, or Cena-Ziggler.

But since that isn't something WWE could ever do, it isn't a sport. You can't have a sport with pre-determined winners.


I've said it already, pro-wrestlers are some of the best all round athletes you will find, what they do is ridiculously tough and athletic, you have to be able to connect and manipulate a crowd, it is a massive mental and physical test.
It's still not a sport though, there's no winners, there's no losing. There's a script.

FLWWEFan
05-28-2012, 12:05 PM
They show the UWF some weeks as well. Back in the day I remember those AWA on ESPN Classic episodes were just AWA on ESPN. :) And the Global Wrestling Federation was a weekly show on ESPN in the afternoons back in the early 90's.

Those were the good ol' days. I remember coming home from school and at 4pm turning on ESPN to watch AWA. Awesome stuff. Old School Curt Hennig, Rockers, Midnight Express, etc.

lewism173
05-28-2012, 03:35 PM
well anyone who don't say wrestling is a sport is retarded, it's exercise you need skill it makes you sweat and makes your heart beat faster

Mojo Tartarus
05-28-2012, 04:24 PM
well anyone who don't say wrestling is a sport is retarded, it's exercise you need skill it makes you sweat and makes your heart beat faster

Is that necessary?

Steve Austin
05-28-2012, 04:27 PM
well anyone who don't say wrestling is a sport is retarded, it's exercise you need skill it makes you sweat and makes your heart beat faster

You need skill to play the guitar, hot temperatures make you sweat and shocking news makes your heart beat faster, they're not sports!

tchocky360
05-28-2012, 05:12 PM
well anyone who don't say wrestling is a sport is retarded, it's exercise you need skill it makes you sweat and makes your heart beat faster

You'd think I said something awful about wrestling. I love watching wrestling, wider public might be dismissive of it but that's because for adults it's still a niche.
Instead of being ultra defensive about it and trying to make it something it's not, stop being ashamed that it isn't a sport. When people say it's fake, explain how that isn't the actual point, that it is about guys putting on a show. When you know something isn't real but it still has the ability to draw you in that's pretty special enough.