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View Full Version : Is John Cena clinging to the light?



Glamour Girl
12-06-2011, 12:00 AM
In spite of the fans' boredom with Super Cena's matches and gimmick and their desire to have Cena turn heel just to make things different after so many years of him as a face it seems that the WWE writters and most likely Vince are once again refusing to make the fans happy in order to keep making money off his merchandise. If anything I've noticed are the writters trying to force fans to like Cena by association. I mean there's being a face and there's being a suckup. Cena of course has jumped on the Punk and Ryder bandwagons hoping he'll be one of the cool kids if he spends enough time sucking up to them. Personally I don't care for this move and I feel like the writters are trying to cheat the fans once again. I also find it ironic that a short while ago a WWE representative said the reason WWE plugs Twitter so much is because they think the reason the ratings have gone down is because people are not aware of the WWE product. I think Vince has completely deluded himself into thinking that his actions have no consequences, that he can ignore what the fans want and still make all the money and high ratings, but well I guess that's a different subject for a different day. What are your thoughts?

Tommy Thunder
12-06-2011, 12:36 AM
I respectfully disagree. He is not clinging to the light. Hes out of the WWE Title picture for now and has put over Zack Ryder big time tonight even if he did score a win on Ryder. And I certainly don't think that hes "jumping" on the CM Punk and Zack Ryder bandwagon just to get the fans to cheer him. Its just a matter of putting his peers over which I see nothing wrong with that. Bret Hart put over The Rock during Rocky's early career so its a matter of Cena putting over Ryder and Punk.

I essentially agree with what Dubs said. Ryder got a LOT of exposure on Raw tonight, and Cena put him over big time despite beating him in a match. An he's not in the title picture (although it's possible that they'll find a way to put Cena in the match since I'm not sure what else Cena could do for TLC).

steveorton
12-06-2011, 06:21 AM
I respectfully disagree. He is not clinging to the light. Hes out of the WWE Title picture for now and has put over Zack Ryder big time tonight even if he did score a win on Ryder. And I certainly don't think that hes "jumping" on the CM Punk and Zack Ryder bandwagon just to get the fans to cheer him. Its just a matter of putting his peers over which I see nothing wrong with that. Bret Hart put over The Rock during Rocky's early career so its a matter of Cena putting over Ryder and Punk.

Spot on Dubs. Cena has enough popularity despite the boos he still has the Cenation. All the guy is trying to do is get some other individuals over. With respect to twitter it's business 101 you will always try different methods to get your product out there, to attract more viewers. While I think better storylines are needed social media will also play a role in garnering ratings. one last poit Cena doesn't need to turn heel he just needs to change his gimmick, probably not 360 but a 180 would be nice. It would keep merch sales up, satisfying Vince and also provide a breath of fresh air in the E. However I'm sure if this would happen many people will still hate, Peolple just love to hate. Rise Above Hate :D

Asherdelampyr
12-06-2011, 10:38 AM
I respectfully disagree. He is not clinging to the light. Hes out of the WWE Title picture for now and has put over Zack Ryder big time tonight even if he did score a win on Ryder. And I certainly don't think that hes "jumping" on the CM Punk and Zack Ryder bandwagon just to get the fans to cheer him. Its just a matter of putting his peers over which I see nothing wrong with that. Bret Hart put over The Rock during Rocky's early career so its a matter of Cena putting over Ryder and Punk.

And yet again I find myself agreeing with you
seriously, Cena (the man) has been trying for the past few years to get younger guys over, or working to get them pushed, this is no different. He isn't bandwagon-jumping, he is passing the torch

Kincaid
12-06-2011, 11:11 AM
I am with Glamour Girl on this one. See? I put Ryder over. Please like me. THAT IS ALL THIS IS. I don't hold it against Cena, I hold it against creative. The man does what he is told.

SESAfro
12-06-2011, 11:13 AM
And yet again I find myself agreeing with you
seriously, Cena (the man) has been trying for the past few years to get younger guys over, or working to get them pushed, this is no different. He isn't bandwagon-jumping, he is passing the torch
I would say passing the torch. He's always going to be in the light since he is 'the man'. He can't hang on to something he is losing. He put over Sheamus, Ryder, Punk, Del Rio (he couldn't hold on to it), Wade Barrett, etc. Facts don't lie.

The Brown One
12-06-2011, 11:13 AM
And yet again I find myself agreeing with you
seriously, Cena (the man) has been trying for the past few years to get younger guys over, or working to get them pushed, this is no different. He isn't bandwagon-jumping, he is passing the torch

I hope he doesn't pass the torch to Ryder. I wouldn't want him representing the company. Hes good, but hes a clown compared to some of the torch bearers in the past.

My best guess is that it's Vince that's pulling the strings with the whole Cena situation. I'm sure creative wants to turn Cena heel, or even make him a tweener, but Vince won't pull the trigger, in fear that he would lose millions in merchandise. What's almost as bad is that Cena can't do a thing about it. He likely ignores the hate he gets, but it must have gotten to him in the past, and its likely that hes questioned why he bothers busting his ass day in and day out to get hated. When Vince gets some sense into his head, or someone else takes over, then we will see better decisions that make for better entertainment, rather than just a money - oriented business.

Glamour Girl
12-06-2011, 11:50 AM
See I could see it as a passing of the torch if Ryder had beaten Cena, but to me last night showed Cena beating Ryder (doubt anyone didn't see that coming) and then telling John Laurinitis " yes he lost to me but so does everyone else, won't you take pitty on him anyway? The fans seem to like him". It felt like a desperate attempt to gain Cena more cheers again because how can you dislike the pooor sap who's willing to sacrifice his title shot for someone the fans like more? Tell me some people didn't see that and think " aww Cena's alright".

Asherdelampyr
12-06-2011, 12:16 PM
See I could see it as a passing of the torch if Ryder had beaten Cena, but to me last night showed Cena beating Ryder (doubt anyone didn't see that coming) and then telling John Laurinitis " yes he lost to me but so does everyone else, won't you take pitty on him anyway? The fans seem to like him". It felt like a desperate attempt to gain Cena more cheers again because how can you dislike the pooor sap who's willing to sacrifice his title shot for someone the fans like more? Tell me some people didn't see that and think " aww Cena's alright".
look at it this way, lke it or not, they can't show Ryder (who is vying for a mid-card title) cleanly win over the top guy of the company for the last, what is it now, 7 years? and they can't have Ryder use a heel tactic while he has all the fans behind him, that could kill the momentum he has going in. so that left either someone running in to screw Cena out of the win, which puts him in another program when it looks like they are trying to keep him on the "solo break" path leading to Wrestlemania, or they have Cena win, and in some sort of twist still give Ryder the title shot he deserves. They chose option B, and I think that it was the right one.

SilverGhost
12-06-2011, 12:18 PM
To me, that last episode had Cena all over in the light but the person of the hour was Zack Ryder. The writers are trying to make the whole Cena situation a lot more dramatic and blah blah blah.

This is my thought: If Cena is out of the title picture, good. If he puts guys over, that is even better.

Rich Cranium
12-06-2011, 12:20 PM
I wouldn't call it passing the torch as Cena is no where near retirement and I doubt he is leaving to RockyWood. He is just supporting guys who he thinks has great potential but aren't given the opportunity to show it.

steveorton
12-06-2011, 12:24 PM
With respect to what Asher said, definitely they made the right choice all of the IWC knows that Cena pushed for Ryder to be on TV, yes Ryder youtube vids were a major reason but I think it's the fact that Cena has come outright and declared support for Ryder that he's on TV as well. I'm with the Zack Pack but imo Ryder is no where near the level of Cena so he didn't deserve the victory, probably in a few years when he changes his gimmick and becomes more serious.

Glamour Girl
12-06-2011, 12:24 PM
look at it this way, lke it or not, they can't show Ryder (who is vying for a mid-card title) cleanly win over the top guy of the company for the last, what is it now, 7 years? and they can't have Ryder use a heel tactic while he has all the fans behind him, that could kill the momentum he has going in. so that left either someone running in to screw Cena out of the win, which puts him in another program when it looks like they are trying to keep him on the "solo break" path leading to Wrestlemania, or they have Cena win, and in some sort of twist still give Ryder the title shot he deserves. They chose option B, and I think that it was the right one.

I'm not a big Ryder fan or anything, but he's clearly the IWC's favorite so to have him lose to Cena is kind of like telling the fans "we know you hate Cena and love Ryder but this is what we think about what you like". As I said it wasn't a passing of the torch since Cena didn't really put him over and it was more about getting the fans to think "aww well we're sick of him, but he's such a good guy".

Asherdelampyr
12-06-2011, 12:34 PM
I'm not a big Ryder fan or anything, but he's clearly the IWC's favorite so to have him lose to Cena is kind of like telling the fans "we know you hate Cena and love Ryder but this is what we think about what you like". As I said it wasn't a passing of the torch since Cena didn't really put him over and it was more about getting the fans to think "aww well we're sick of him, but he's such a good guy".

I think that you are concerning yourself overmuch with the end of the match and not enough with the psychology behind it.
it isn't about who the "IWC" likes the most, it's about who has been built up to be the stronger guy

Ryder may be talented, he may be funny, but he hasn't been built up to be more than a variety piece, and him getting a clean win right now over a multiple time world champ is like Santino getting a clean win over a multiple time world champ, except that Santino actually has more success attributed to him and even a few title reigns. (IC and Tag team) whereas right now Ryder's biggest accomplishments are Tag Team Champion; Assistant to the SmackDown General Manager.

You can't just have whoever is the flavor of the month trounce your top guys, not only does it make them look weak, but it helps to make anyone who can't beat them look weak by comparison.

Glamour Girl
12-06-2011, 12:43 PM
And I think you're not looking at the big picture here. Ryder didn't need to beat Cena, he didn't even have to face him. The whole point of that match was for Cena to sacrifice his shot for Ryder's thus gaining simpathy from the fans.

Asherdelampyr
12-06-2011, 12:46 PM
And I think you're not looking at the big picture here. Ryder didn't need to beat Cena, he didn't even have to face him. The whole point of that match was for Cena to sacrifice his shot for Ryder's thus gaining simpathy from the fans.

to show that even the wrestlers are supporting Ryder's push, which is a good story for Ryder to have right now, Cena doesn't need to get sympathy, he hasn't had to for some time now, it's all about building Ryder up in small steps to take the title from Ziggler

SilverGhost
12-06-2011, 12:47 PM
And I think you're not looking at the big picture here. Ryder didn't need to beat Cena, he didn't even have to face him. The whole point of that match was for Cena to sacrifice his shot for Ryder's thus gaining simpathy from the fans.

If sympathy was the case, he wouldn't even mention Zack Ryder. Getting his shot. He would be all...."This whole thing is not fair and it not right. Because of this, I am pulling out of the championship match." Of course....WWE wants to make it dramatic.

Asherdelampyr
12-06-2011, 12:50 PM
If sympathy was the case, he wouldn't even mention Zack Ryder. Getting his shot. He would be all...."This whole thing is not fair and it not right. Because of this, I am pulling out of the championship match." Of course....WWE wants to make it dramatic.

not to mention that with the "tortured superman" thing they have going for Cena, they need to have fans continue to boo him at least for the next month to make it really stick, imagine how bad that Piper's pit segment would have turned if he started getting people over the age of 14 cheering for him?

BlazersDozen
12-06-2011, 12:56 PM
I agree with both sides. Whoever is pulling the strings are trying to get Cena loved again with 3 straight weeks of 3 different attempts but at the same time, last night, I believe Cena really wanted to put Ryder over. Cena has been in a lot of webisodes & has been the main one working to help Ryder for a long time. I believe both arguments are true. Also, Vince needs to realize that heels can sell merch also when they are big names & with the annoyances of how faces are pushed these days, I feel the fans much more enjoy a bad ass heel than the stat quo babyface right now.

The Brown One
12-06-2011, 01:00 PM
And I think you're not looking at the big picture here. Ryder didn't need to beat Cena, he didn't even have to face him. The whole point of that match was for Cena to sacrifice his shot for Ryder's thus gaining simpathy from the fans.

Sympathy isn't the case here. It's just another case of the WWE saying "Hey lets make Cena look like a hero once again by having him do an act of kindness", whilst having him take up another talent's time. Ryder could have earned that title shot by other means, but they had to put Cena in there so that fans wouldn't forget that hes the damn posterboy.

Asherdelampyr
12-06-2011, 01:07 PM
I agree with both sides. Whoever is pulling the strings are trying to get Cena loved again with 3 straight weeks of 3 different attempts but at the same time, last night, I believe Cena really wanted to put Ryder over. Cena has been in a lot of webisodes & has been the main one working to help Ryder for a long time. I believe both arguments are true. Also, Vince needs to realize that heels can sell merch also when they are big names & with the annoyances of how faces are pushed these days, I feel the fans much more enjoy a bad ass heel than the stat quo babyface right now.


I think the WWE is trolling us, and trolling us hard

they can count on Cena getting booed, just as they could count on Rock getting cheered, and so they want to keep that reaction so that they can play Cena off of it when the time comes.

I honestly don't believe that they want Cena to get the usual Face treatment, his "mixed reaction" has become such a large part of his gimmick that it is impossible to separate at this point, hell they even build it into the video games. if he ever got all cheers or all boos it would be the end of Cena's gimmick, imo

Bennyladd1
12-06-2011, 01:13 PM
Glamour Girl is 100% right about the fact that they associate cena with ryder just so cena gets more cheers, he may be helping ryder with his career , of course. But it doesnt change the fact that cena is being made out to be the hero here, he sacrificed his title match for Ryder, therefore people may like him more, its pretty easy to see through this. Im just glad Ryder has a US title match.

Bennyladd1
12-06-2011, 01:14 PM
Sympathy isn't the case here. It's just another case of the WWE saying "Hey lets make Cena look like a hero once again by having him do an act of kindness", whilst having him take up another talent's time. Ryder could have earned that title shot by other means, but they had to put Cena in there so that fans wouldn't forget that hes the damn posterboy.

Thats essentially what Glamour Girl said in the opening post.

Glamour Girl
12-06-2011, 01:20 PM
Glamour Girl is 100% right about the fact that they associate cena with ryder just so cena gets more cheers, he may be helping ryder with his career , of course. But it doesnt change the fact that cena is being made out to be the hero here, he sacrificed his title match for Ryder, therefore people may like him more, its pretty easy to see through this. Im just glad Ryder has a US title match.

Lol I was starting to think nobody would agree with me. It doesn't matter how much Cena supports Ryder behind the scenes, what matters is what's portrayed on the show. I can agree with the mixed reaction comment, but lately Cena hasn't been getting much mixed reaction, it's been mostly negative reactions so by associating Cena with Ryder (the IWC sweetheart) they can get more love for Cena in order to get more of a mxed reaction instead of mostly boos. Ryder didn't need Cena to get an IC title shot, they added him in Cena's favor and not Ryder's.

The Hit Man
12-06-2011, 01:21 PM
I think the way they played it out last night was great (This is coming from a big Ziggler fan who got screwed out of a WWE Title match and now has to defend his title against Ryder). Last night's Raw was all about Zack Ryder. WWE are trying to push Ryder as a serious contender to Ziggler's US Championship and it's working. If you asked me a month or two ago if Ryder deserved to be US Champ, I would've said no but after last night he is ready! And yes Cena played a big part in this, not just last night but throughout his whole push. I do agree with Glamour Girl to a certain extent that creative are aligning Cena with Ryder to get him more liked but it's also down to the fact that Cena has been surporting Ryder for a long time now.

This brings me onto Cena. Last week everyone was asking the question is Cena going to turn heel? Well last night we saw no heel like antics at all and went the extra mile by giving up his WWE title shot so Ryder had one more opportunity. He brought up the fact that he's already a 10 time WWE Champion and therefore doesn't need another shot for the time being. I feel WWE's strategy going into WM with Cena is to make it seem that there is absolutely no way he'll turn heel by doing things such like he did last night meaning it will be face v face match. Then they can turn Cena heel towards the end of the match by cheating to get a win over Rock. That's just how I see it happening and therefore I think it was a job well done on creatives part by acheiving two of their top goals in one segment.

That's just my take on it. I know people will say if Cena turns heel then there'll be a drop in merchandise sales but heels still sell as well. Plus there is still Punk, Orton and Sheamus as top faces. Also Mysterio will return around that time as well as R-Truth new face merchandise. If Jericho returns, either face or heel, you can rest assure his merchandise will sell regardless.

Bennyladd1
12-06-2011, 01:23 PM
Lol I was starting to think nobody would agree with me. It doesn't matter how much Cena supports Ryder behind the scenes, what matters is what's portrayed on the show. I can agree with the mixed reaction comment, but lately Cena hasn't been getting much mixed reaction, it's been mostly negative reactions so by associating Cena with Ryder (the IWC sweetheart) they can get more love for Cena in order to get more of a mxed reaction instead of mostly boos. Ryder didn't need Cena to get an IC title shot, they added him in in Cena's favor and not Ryder's.

Exactly, why else would they need cena in there? hes not a heel, he wont be facing ryder and putting him over, hes acting as Ryder's biggest fan, always praising the guy and it works in cena's favour or atleast wwe thinks it does.

Bennyladd1
12-06-2011, 01:28 PM
i agree with Hitman, last night was about zack ryder, but it also showed us that cena was all about being the hero and helping Ryder, which makes him seem all heroic and kind, god knows if/when he turns heel though.

The Brown One
12-06-2011, 01:38 PM
I think the WWE is trolling us, and trolling us hard

they can count on Cena getting booed, just as they could count on Rock getting cheered, and so they want to keep that reaction so that they can play Cena off of it when the time comes.

I honestly don't believe that they want Cena to get the usual Face treatment, his "mixed reaction" has become such a large part of his gimmick that it is impossible to separate at this point, hell they even build it into the video games. if he ever got all cheers or all boos it would be the end of Cena's gimmick, imo

Dude I played WWE 12 and they made Cena's pops the biggest in the Sheamus storyline! They even gave him a huge pyro. I think they went overboard with him.

Asherdelampyr
12-06-2011, 01:41 PM
Dude I played WWE 12 and they made Cena's pops the biggest in the Sheamus storyline! They even gave him a huge pyro. I think they went overboard with him.

I was referring to 2010, should have been more specific, though in WWE 12 it is hilarious to hear Cole talk about his "mixed reaction" right after he comes out to that.
in universe mode I finally made him full heel, so now he gets serious heat when he comes out.

SouthernBlood
12-06-2011, 01:47 PM
everything thats been discussed is a part of cena;s "What will he do will he go heel" storyline that really started off on the pipers pit..Its not that hard to see

The Brown One
12-06-2011, 01:49 PM
I was referring to 2010, should have been more specific, though in WWE 12 it is hilarious to hear Cole talk about his "mixed reaction" right after he comes out to that.
in universe mode I finally made him full heel, so now he gets serious heat when he comes out.

Ah. I'm still working out how to play that. I'm overseas on holiday atm so can't access the Xbox until I get back. Seems to be a good game so far though..except Road to WM.

Asherdelampyr
12-06-2011, 01:57 PM
Ah. I'm still working out how to play that. I'm overseas on holiday atm so can't access the Xbox until I get back. Seems to be a good game so far though..except Road to WM.

yeah RTWM is not worth it other than unlockables, however Universe 2.0 pretty much makes the game, if it was just Universe and create-a-wrestler modes, I would have been satisfied.
Funnest part is, you can change pretty much whatever you want about any superstar, except for the clothing (you can change the color but you cant, for example, recreate the "King Sheamus" cape)

Asherdelampyr
12-06-2011, 04:31 PM
If WWE were trying to make the fans like Cena out of this, then that would make The Piper's Pit segment he did pointless. So I doubt they are trying to get the fans to cheer for him now. I think it was another "putting over" moment by Cena trying to convince his believe in Ryder. Plus, it all goes with the loyalty in his character. WWE hasn't been bothered with their top guy getting booed by half the fans since hes been getting a mixed reaction for a long time so I doubt they will now.

That's what I'm saying, the WWE hasn't bothered with trying to get Cena sympathy yet, why bother now?

AOF666
12-06-2011, 04:48 PM
I essentially agree with what Dubs said. Ryder got a LOT of exposure on Raw tonight, and Cena put him over big time despite beating him in a match. An he's not in the title picture (although it's possible that they'll find a way to put Cena in the match since I'm not sure what else Cena could do for TLC).

They could make Cena the guess referee for the Zack Ryder and Ziggler match.

WISEGUY
12-06-2011, 08:18 PM
I think your focusing too much on the point of "WWE trying to get Cena liked". Essentially Cena is already liked (despite boo's) A guy that has millions of fans through Social Network sites like Facebook or Twitter & is the top merch seller every week isn't just full out hated, wouldn't you think? But, If you mean WWE trying to get him "cool points" with his haters? Who knows, probably. What's one way to get a exposure deprived mid-carder noticed? (by CASUAL FANS) associate him with the guy upper in the ranks. Make him seem important, and something to pay attention too by pairing him with the guy that IS important and payed attention too regularly. Some people might not know this, but Zack is really only over with the people that watch & read wrestling over the Internet & TV on a timely basis. He isn't really known by that mainstream core of fans, that just watch RAW every Monday and maybe SD on Friday, and absolutely have no association with wrestling outside that. Typically, when you hear a "We Want Ryder" chant, its from the same group of people way up in cheap seats that boo Cena and chant all sorts of stuff.

They tried to give Zack the 'high school' effect. The nerd hangs out with the highly liked HS Jock , and becomes popular. That's my take on it, they are just trying to get Ryder completely over and known. What a better way to get noticed, then getting noticed by the posterboy. That's my take on it.

Asherdelampyr
12-07-2011, 09:02 AM
I think your focusing too much on the point of "WWE trying to get Cena liked". Essentially Cena is already liked (despite boo's) A guy that has millions of fans through Social Network sites like Facebook or Twitter & is the top merch seller every week isn't just full out hated, wouldn't you think? But, If you mean WWE trying to get him "cool points" with his haters? Who knows, probably. What's one way to get a exposure deprived mid-carder noticed? (by CASUAL FANS) associate him with the guy upper in the ranks. Make him seem important, and something to pay attention too by pairing him with the guy that IS important and payed attention too regularly. Some people might not know this, but Zack is really only over with the people that watch & read wrestling over the Internet & TV on a timely basis. He isn't really known by that mainstream core of fans, that just watch RAW every Monday and maybe SD on Friday, and absolutely have no association with wrestling outside that. Typically, when you hear a "We Want Ryder" chant, its from the same group of people way up in cheap seats that boo Cena and chant all sorts of stuff.

They tried to give Zack the 'high school' effect. The nerd hangs out with the highly liked HS Jock , and becomes popular. That's my take on it, they are just trying to get Ryder completely over and known. What a better way to get noticed, then getting noticed by the posterboy. That's my take on it.

pretty much, this isn't a new tactic, heel or face this has been a way for just about every company to get a new guy in for at least the last 30 years

The Brown One
12-07-2011, 09:07 AM
I'd be surprised if they are actually building up to Cena becoming a tweener. They could use all of this and have Cena finally stop ignoring his haters and tackle them head on - not through a heel turn of course. But I'm still holding out hope for this.