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View Full Version : What makes a "Great" match?!



djsoulslayer
10-14-2010, 02:22 AM
I wanna know by what standards do you classify a match as "GREAT". What do you see or feel during a match that keeps you coming back for more? Would it be:

1. A lot of high flying, high impact moves
2. Numerous believable near falls
3. Wrestlers kicking out of one another's finishers
4. Unexpected twists and turns

For me, it's a back-and-forth battle between evenly matched competitors using every move in their arsenal to keep the other opponent down. I want to doubt my prediction at times during the match. There has to a decent background story. Something to make me care about why these competitors are beating the hell out of one another. These are the standards by which I judge which matches are "Great" to me.

What are yours?

SgtGohan
10-14-2010, 05:01 AM
1 believable near falls
2 kicking out of finishers
3 using or trying to use the opponents finisher
4 high risk moves
5 back and forth momentum changes
6 taunting
7 an actual pin or submission finish of the match! not some interference or disqualification!

CMhuw24
10-14-2010, 06:12 AM
I beleive that all the points youu've made were used by HBK and the Taker at WM25 extremely well :)

SgtGohan
10-14-2010, 06:28 AM
I beleive that all the points youu've made were used by HBK and the Taker at WM25 extremely well :)

and thats why that was a good match

NWOMyGawd
10-14-2010, 06:36 AM
1 believable near falls
2 kicking out of finishers
3 using or trying to use the opponents finisher
4 high risk moves
5 back and forth momentum changes
6 taunting
7 an actual pin or submission finish of the match! not some interference or disqualification!

Agree with all.....however. A pin or submission is not 100% necessary for a great match. There were plenty of matches back in the day that ended in interference and was still a GREAT match. The first Hell in a Cell match between HBK and Undertaker comes to mind. One of the greatest matches I have ever seen in my life and it ended with interference (and the debut) of Kane. Although the majority of GREAT matches must end with a winner, interference used properly can make some matches better.
The only thing that I would add to either of ur guys list is that there needs to be at least 1 HOLY SHIT moment. Mankind thrown from the top of cage in HIAC, Jeff Hardy getting speared by Edge while hanging onto the belt or even a memorable moment like The Rock singing on the microphone while wrestling Stone Cold or the AMAZING reaction of Hogan v. Warrior. Sometimes the moment can outwiegh everything else that happens in the match and make it a GREAT match by itself.
Personal opionions of course and there are other underlying things that could affect the greatness of a match. But this pretty much gives all the reasons that matches become GREAT. Have a nice day.

Nexus4Life
10-14-2010, 07:07 AM
Agree with all.....however. A pin or submission is not 100% necessary for a great match. There were plenty of matches back in the day that ended in interference and was still a GREAT match. The first Hell in a Cell match between HBK and Undertaker comes to mind. One of the greatest matches I have ever seen in my life and it ended with interference (and the debut) of Kane. Although the majority of GREAT matches must end with a winner, interference used properly can make some matches better.
The only thing that I would add to either of ur guys list is that there needs to be at least 1 HOLY SHIT moment. Mankind thrown from the top of cage in HIAC, Jeff Hardy getting speared by Edge while hanging onto the belt or even a memorable moment like The Rock singing on the microphone while wrestling Stone Cold or the AMAZING reaction of Hogan v. Warrior. Sometimes the moment can outwiegh everything else that happens in the match and make it a GREAT match by itself.
Personal opionions of course and there are other underlying things that could affect the greatness of a match. But this pretty much gives all the reasons that matches become GREAT. Have a nice day.

Or Jeff Hardys pay back at WM 23, with his leg drop onto edge when edge is lying on the ladder outside the ring!

NWOMyGawd
10-14-2010, 07:20 AM
exactly. I think every great match needs to be the sort of thing that once you mention it people who watched it can remember it fondly, talk about a that bump or move for many years to come.

Splattered-Dreams
10-14-2010, 09:47 AM
1. actual wrestling moves: I don't watch wrestling to see fake punches and "methodically" beating down an opponent with knees and/or sleeper holds

2. a decent audience: Part of the reason why WWEs matches these days don't get over on TV is because the crowd isn't into them. Sometimes TNA's mediocre matches seem epic because the crowd is loving it. Always adds to the ambience

3. a clean finish

shanethewolf
10-14-2010, 09:51 AM
That's a very good question. I've disputed guys like Ric Flair, Harley Race and all the oldies who try to say they're the best just because they're smart and experienced, because ultimately a great match is one that entertains the audience.

Of course, everyone has different tastes, but here's the key features of a great match in my opinion:

1. Innovation - new moves, different ways of executing the match, basically something you don't see in every other match.

2. Variation - I want to see the wrestlers show us what they can do and it's important that the match has lots of variation to set it apart from the usual routine matches.

3. Tension - I want to know that this match is worth winning. I want a reason to support one of the wrestlers and whether it's for a title, a grudge match or even just to climb the ranks, I need to see his passion for winning that match.

4. Believability - I'm not asking for MMA, but I don't want to see Ric Flair going toe to toe with someone like Matt Morgan or Hulk Hogan no selling for someone younger and stronger.

5. Unpredictability - It's impossible to expect that from every match, but it's a nice bonus.

6. Congruety - It must make sense. If you're having someone turn heel or someone run out, there must be a motive for them to do that. TNA haven't figured this one out yet and just keep turning everyone face and heel just for the hell of it and don't even know where to take it after that.

7. Wrestling - Yes, as basic as it sounds, I like to see wrestlers performing the art of wrestling, not celebrities bitch slapping each other or rolling on the floor.

Anyway, that's my list.

Splattered-Dreams
10-14-2010, 10:10 AM
7. Wrestling - Yes, as basic as it sounds, I like to see wrestlers performing the art of wrestling, not celebrities bitch slapping each other or rolling on the floor.

Well said:)

Stihltygre
10-14-2010, 10:11 AM
Story telling, story telling, and umm story telling.
I love to see insane spots and incredible moves as much as anyone, MCMG and Beer Money were incredible, but it was less because of the moves they did than just the Raw emotion they put out. I'm not a huge Cena fan, and the move set he uses is crap, but i have to admit the man can tell a story in the ring , and i shit a brick when he FU'd Big Show... the FIRST time. after that it lost it's effect.

a crap match can be sold by good story tellers, and a great match can be ruined by poor story telling. I can' say Ziggler isn't a good wrestler he's a brilliant athlete I fast forward through his matches because he can't tell a story to save his life.

Batista who couldn't wrestle his way out of a paper bag could tell a good story. a good Mix of wrestling ability and story telling is Orton, the man has about the most perfect drop kick in the world, and moves like his character should, his move set feels impactful, and he manages to get a real sense of Malice across. put him in with someone who REALLY wrestles well and you have an incredible match, i would have loved to see something like Orton vs Morrison, let Orton tell the story and have Morrison do the high spots.

the perfect storm in a wrestler IMHO is A.J. Styles, he tells an incredible story has a move set that regularly blows my mind, even his Bumps are gold but currently his character is completely unbelievable. He is Possibly the WORST heel i have ever seen... AJ as a face vs someone like HHH as a heel or Kane ( neither of who have great move sets but work fantastically as a platform and tell incredible stories in the ring) would be incredible, unfortunately TNA doesn't have a heel that is that Solid. Samoa Joe tells a greats tory and has a brilliant move set but he works best a tweener and the current TNA "storyline" ( cough) doesn't play well for tweeners.

i was pissed as shit at WWE for how they handled Jericho, they had set up the perfect face turn for him, with the arrogant character starting to doubt himself, i'm looking forward to how they handle Edge, if they lock him into a one on one Fued with Swagger I'm gonna scream, because ti will be completely derailing a great story they had set up, you can't "purge the WWE of everything stupid" by fighting the same guy every week.

in my case the Jury is still out on the Nexus Cena thing, it's gonna get old really fast if they play it out too long, but i see an Otunga/ Barret Feud coming.

well I rambled

shanethewolf
10-14-2010, 10:43 AM
Well said:)

I kinda stole your point I guess. :) And yes, a good audience makes hell of a difference. ECW was the best for that!

Kid_Gangsta
10-14-2010, 10:54 AM
1 believable near falls
2 kicking out of finishers
3 using or trying to use the opponents finisher
4 high risk moves
5 back and forth momentum changes
6 taunting
7 an actual pin or submission finish of the match! not some interference or disqualification!

this. that type of stuff makes me go http://i53.tinypic.com/2qvup3q.gif

Splattered-Dreams
10-14-2010, 11:01 AM
I kinda stole your point I guess. :) And yes, a good audience makes hell of a difference. ECW was the best for that!

Absolutely! ECW had the most innovative fans of all time:D

Tommy Thunder
10-14-2010, 11:02 AM
i was pissed as shit at WWE for how they handled Jericho, they had set up the perfect face turn for him, with the arrogant character starting to doubt himself, i'm looking forward to how they handle Edge, if they lock him into a one on one Fued with Swagger I'm gonna scream, because ti will be completely derailing a great story they had set up, you can't "purge the WWE of everything stupid" by fighting the same guy every week.

in my case the Jury is still out on the Nexus Cena thing, it's gonna get old really fast if they play it out too long, but i see an Otunga/ Barret Feud coming.

well I rambled

Out of intrest, what do you want to see them do with Edge?

And do you really want to see a Barret/Otunga feud? I sure don't!! Barret is good, but Otunga is probably the worst in the ring out of the Nexus guys!! He's got some charisma and mic skills, but his in-ring work needs working on!!

Splattered-Dreams
10-14-2010, 11:12 AM
Out of intrest, what do you want to see them do with Edge?

And do you really want to see a Barret/Otunga feud? I sure don't!! Barret is good, but Otunga is probably the worst in the ring out of the Nexus guys!! He's got some charisma and mic skills, but his in-ring work needs working on!!

A Nexus-on-Nexus feud wouldn't sell unless it involved Cena, I'm sorry to say.

Stihltygre
10-14-2010, 11:14 AM
let edge run roughshod over both brands use him to clean up the stupid storylines, then give him a good fued.
do i WANT to see Barret/Otunga, HELL NO, otunga is a ken doll with a voice box, but it's in the works and given time he could be trained to use his charisma to tell the story and let barret carry the wrestling. he needs some time with with someone like golddust, a long time veteran who can REALLY teach him

mind you i'm a writer, so i'm used to looking at characters and seeing what can be done with them

Stihltygre
10-14-2010, 11:15 AM
A Nexus-on-Nexus feud wouldn't sell unless it involved Cena, I'm sorry to say.

not if they do a firing angle with Cena and have Barret blame otunga

Splattered-Dreams
10-14-2010, 11:20 AM
let edge run roughshod over both brands use him to clean up the stupid storylines, then give him a good fued.
do i WANT to see Barret/Otunga, HELL NO, otunga is a ken doll with a voice box, but it's in the works and given time he could be trained to use his charisma to tell the story and let barret carry the wrestling. he needs some time with with someone like golddust, a long time veteran who can REALLY teach him

mind you i'm a writer, so i'm used to looking at characters and seeing what can be done with them

I'm a buisness analyst, but it doesn't mean I'm a good one:p

Stihltygre
10-14-2010, 11:36 AM
I'm a buisness analyst, but it doesn't mean I'm a good one:p

i don't decide whether i'm good at my job or not LOL, but wrestling allows for simple short plots entwined with long complex ones and i don't see that happening.

look at the concept of it. Any given promotion will have good guys bad guys and tweeners. simple storytelling says Good guys wioll evntually band togeather while bad guys explode by turning on themselves. for a hero to be a effective you need to have him in danger, he needs to fight against an enemy greater than himself, the bad guys selfishness will cause them to turn allowing the power to shift so the good guy would win.

Tweeners would get won over by the Us or them nature of it, or back the good bad guy for their own need.
having the trusted ally turn is more effective than having the good guy turn, allow the commentators to be " everymen" they are the thoughts of the crowd, comparing it to greek tragedy it's the chorus.

for a heel turn to work you need to have a reason to turn heel.. Super Cena can't do a believable heel turn from the position he's in, HOWEVER having him beat nexus and then go totalitarian, "I'm going to take over for he good of everyone" would work perfectly, he goes to " by any means nessecary" and goes nuts... now we have bad guy Cena and maybe even a couple other Faces turn with him.

the Tweeners get sick of it and some of the heels join them, setting up some face turns, and allowing for newer guys to start really showing off as one or two rise to the challenge of destroying the Cena regime, Cena having been ousted plots revenge and we have a full on Heel cena, posibly coached and aided by HHH, the New Faces ( I'd use Morrison, and Gabriel) end up Fueding with them, while the roster gets mixed up more, the whole buisness could easily be sparked with a Miz title run. His character is a joke in storyline and he deserves the run.but first you need to get Cena out of the mix for a bit.

one of my other serious issues is that the Divas bubble on in their own little world unaffected by how the main stories are rolling, get them involved, Maryse whispering in the ear of Cena could speed the turn ( and keep her out fo the ring which would be a bonus). they need to start plotting general roster storylines over a 4 month span.

lucky7pointman
10-14-2010, 11:51 AM
And do you really want to see a Barret/Otunga feud? I sure don't!! Barret is good, but Otunga is probably the worst in the ring out of the Nexus guys!! He's got some charisma and mic skills, but his in-ring work needs working on!![/QUOTE]

Otrunga got all u say he have but this is wwe that all u need lol they going to push him or used him cuz he is marry to a singer and going to try to make him a big stars to gain more stars power in the hollywood world

Splattered-Dreams
10-14-2010, 11:52 AM
Some prety good ideas there, which faces would turn heel with Cena?

Stihltygre
10-14-2010, 12:05 PM
just looking at the roster now , i think Cena, Bryan, Henry, and Bourne woudl make a Scary ass totalitarian Faction, especially with a Diva Like Maryse as the Brains/ voice in the ear... our unlikely Heroes, the Uso's and Tamina, Gabriel, Truth, and Orton.
we get Bourne and Henry Tagging against the Uso's but with a good warm up so they can really get the speed and power thing going in the ring, Bryan and Orton selling Bryan as the "Anti-Viper" as calculating as Orton and enjoying the submission hold and torture aspect of that wrestling style. and Cena goes up against Gabriel, this gives each team the star power to run main event till the newer guys develop followings. the biggest problem with this lineup is it makes Gabriel another Mysterio, and he really needs to develop his own character to avoid it.

Splattered-Dreams
10-14-2010, 12:07 PM
I like it! Espesh. the heel faction. You could replace R Truth with John Morrison or CM Punk (face turn needed, possibly for both) for the babyface side

IPEEINTHESHOWER
10-14-2010, 12:18 PM
Please allow me to give my infinite wisdom on this matter. This is what makes a great match. Identifiable protagonist vs. clearly defined antagonist whose conflicts are built around personal issues. All the other stuff is just filler. U MAD???

infinite wisdom
Drive defensively – buy a tank.

Stihltygre
10-14-2010, 12:21 PM
ideally you let the storyline run until the entire roster ( Divas included) have alligned with one faction or another, with crossfueding and some internal fueding on both sides, then at one of the major PPV's the entire PPV has been taken by the major storyline to finish off the angle, bring the minor fueds into the forefront and prep one of them to be the next 4 month primary angle for the show, giving Cena a bit of a break from the main stage until it's his turn to be brought back into the limelight by a new angle stemming out of an existing one.

mikenigma
10-14-2010, 12:46 PM
Good Ring psychology. The match tells a story. Honestly you can have all the high spots you want, but it's not going to guarantee a great match.

Hannah
10-14-2010, 04:59 PM
To me a great match has occurred when you have:

1) Chemistry between the opponents,
2) The wrestlers showing charisma or whatever you need to get the crowd riled up. Just like a previous poster claimed that a match is nothing without it's audience.
3) The match is fast paced.
4) It doesn't last for two minutes.
5) I would like it if wrestlers would stop interfering, I know you can have a great match as well as having someone interfere, but when they do it constantly it gets old. That's one of my pet peeves with TNA right now, someone always has to break up a match...OLD..
6) Like my numero (I'm aware it's supposed to be spelled as number, but that's just my horrible Spanish..) 5, I don't want to see(another pet peeves with TNA right now) all these spectacular matches, first blood, cage matches, falls count, etc..IMO it's supposed to be rare, like on PPVs. And when they decided to go with the whole bloody route, it's the same thing. It takes out all of the "OMG" factors.

And...I think I only did like 4 that makes a great wrestling match, and the rest are pet peeves, but eh..w/e.

SilverGhost
10-14-2010, 05:29 PM
What makes a great match......hmm

I know for a fact that if you want a memorable and great match, JR is the guy to call it with King.

The build up. This is key. A proper hype for the match.

Credibility of both guys. You want two of the best.

Level of drama between the two. Key also. It needs to be high so you can stay on your seat and guess what will the next move be.

Now for the match, it has to be an all out match. They do their absolute best. Get tired etc then get their finisher out there but it won't make the guy stay down. Vice Versa.

Some interference and other drama that makes you scream NOOOO or YESSS!

(Ran out of ideas.....)

TheDevilsAdvocate
10-14-2010, 05:34 PM
What makes a great match......hmm

I know for a fact that if you want a memorable and great match, JR is the guy to call it with King.

The build up. This is key. A proper hype for the match.

Credibility of both guys. You want two of the best.

Level of drama between the two. Key also. It needs to be high so you can stay on your seat and guess what will the next move be.

Now for the match, it has to be an all out match. They do their absolute best. Get tired etc then get their finisher out there but it won't make the guy stay down. Vice Versa.

Some interference and other drama that makes you scream NOOOO or YESSS!

(Ran out of ideas.....)


You just described the Matt vs Edge/Lita feud. (people are probably getting tired of me mentioning Matt Hardy)

SilverGhost
10-14-2010, 05:40 PM
You just described the Matt vs Edge/Lita feud. (people are probably getting tired of me mentioning Matt Hardy)

LOL no! Not that.

IrkenInvader
10-14-2010, 06:03 PM
I like awesome finisher reversals. Undertaker Chokeslam to Orton RKO, Shelton springboard to HBK Super-Kick, Air Bourne to RKO, just to name a few. I mark out every time.
Good wrestlers vs good wrestlers in matches that last more than 5 minutes.

SilverGhost
10-14-2010, 06:19 PM
I like awesome finisher reversals. Undertaker Chokeslam to Orton RKO, Shelton springboard to HBK Super-Kick, Air Bourne to RKO, just to name a few. I mark out every time.
Good wrestlers vs good wrestlers in matches that last more than 5 minutes.

Reversals are sweet xD

DirtySteal
10-14-2010, 06:59 PM
I LOVE it when both superstars have beaten each other to an inch of their life, both are on their knees in the ring, blooded and battered and staring a hole through eachother while clambering to their feet with the croud going nuts.

Alas, the last time I saw that was JBL vs Eddie Gurrero when Eddie was bleeding real bad after the chair shot.

Necroyeti
10-14-2010, 07:19 PM
JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero is the only WWE match I can think of where the bleeding reached (or exceeded) a 1.0 on the Muta scale.

Splattered-Dreams
10-15-2010, 01:50 AM
Please allow me to give my infinite wisdom on this matter. This is what makes a great match. Identifiable protagonist vs. clearly defined antagonist whose conflicts are built around personal issues. All the other stuff is just filler. U MAD???

infinite wisdom
Drive defensively – buy a tank.

Not necessarily - some of the best matches I've seen have been between two people not in a fued at all (King of the Ring match, soemthing like that)