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squarecircle
10-04-2011, 01:01 PM
... it looks weak, and hence not very impressive!

Most of the time, the GTS doesn't even connect with the opponent's head! Punk's GTS hits the opponents in places like the chest, shoulders, or arms!

I've noticed that the WWE has started to film Punk's GTS move at obscured angles now so that the opponents can better sell getting hit in the head.

CM Punk needs a new and more impressive finisher. A move that doesn't require him to lift bigger guys than him.

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 01:02 PM
Wanna see KENTA's GTS? Will that make you feel better?

Automatic
10-04-2011, 01:04 PM
Wanna see KENTA's GTS? Will that make you feel better?


Show it to him.

S.E. Zero
10-04-2011, 01:04 PM
Wanna see KENTA's GTS? Will that make you feel better?

I do, http://media.otakuzone.com/store/user/191508/T130354734824af133667ccce4c9a87bd1716cc986b29.gif

Hahahaha

Rilla
10-04-2011, 01:05 PM
According to some people I've talked too, a finisher isn't good if it can't be used on bigger guys. However, this logic always goes out the window when its someone they like.

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 01:09 PM
that's 2

I don't mind it, but I like the Anaconda Vice better
wouldn't mind him getting something that didn't involve picking guys up, or just using the vice more

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 01:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G9hjcRxM8Q

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 01:15 PM
So did CM Punk steal's Kenta's move, just like how he stole one of Chris Jericho's moves?

Kenta's fights mostly guys his size. So he can make his GTS look legit.

But CM Punk fights guys bigger than he is. Most of the time, CM Punk struggles to lift these guys, especially after a long match, and then struggles to hit them in the head.

CM Punk should just do a flying knee to the head instead - just like in the UFC.

See my other thread: http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/community/showthread.php?10142-Is-CM-Punk-dropping-the-ball

S.E. Zero
10-04-2011, 01:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G9hjcRxM8Q

http://atharvgoyal.com/images/thumbs_up_smiley.gif.jpg

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 01:19 PM
So did CM Punk steal's Kenta's move, just like how he stole one of Chris Jericho's moves?

Kenta's fights mostly guys his size. So he can make his GTS look legit.

But CM Punk fights guys bigger than he is. Most of the time, CM Punk struggles to lift these guys, especially after a long match, and then struggles to hit them in the head.

CM Punk should just do a flying knee to the head instead - just like in the UFC.

See my other thread: http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/community/showthread.php?10142-Is-CM-Punk-dropping-the-ball

1. No. He got it out of respect for KENTA.

2. Sometimes he does but sometimes he does it on Heavyweights, so does Punk.

3. KENTA hits at the chin. Punk hits it at the chest. You know....WWE is all safety and such.

4. Nah. He is fine with the GTS.

Iron Ape
10-04-2011, 01:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G9hjcRxM8Q
Kenta makes Phil look like Rebecca from Sunnybrook Farm.

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 01:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G9hjcRxM8Q

I could watch this video on repeat all day

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 01:27 PM
KENTA aiming at the chin whereas Punk aiming at the chest is basically the only difference.(sometimes at the chin)

To say that they do it better with guys their own size is crazy since BOTH guys did it against Heavyweights.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 01:28 PM
Punk hits at the chest not because of WWE safety concerns. Heck, Punk knees people in the head when they are in the corner or on the ropes!

When Punk does the GTS on bigger guys (like Cena, HHH, Del Rio, etc), he can't hold them up high enough to drop them down with their head looking down. Punk is so strained and crouched holding these guys up on his shoulders, that he can barely lift them high enough!

When Punk drops them, the guys just fall on their feet, and hence are mostly vertical standing up! So Punk can't reach them high enough and hits them on the chest or stomach!

It looks so weak! It's no RKO, F5, or stunner - that's for sure!

CM Punk needs a new finisher against bigger guys.


1. No. He got it out of respect for KENTA.

2. Sometimes he does but sometimes he does it on Heavyweights, so does Punk.

3. KENTA hits at the chin. Punk hits it at the chest. You know....WWE is all safety and such.

4. Nah. He is fine with the GTS.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 01:30 PM
Punk is aiming for the head/chin too! It's just that he misses most of the time!

He misses because Punk is not big and strong enough to lift guys like Cena, HHH, Orton, and even Alberto Del Rio.


KENTA aiming at the chin whereas Punk aiming at the chest is basically the only difference.(sometimes at the chin)

To say that they do it better with guys their own size is crazy since BOTH guys did it against Heavyweights.

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 01:35 PM
Punk hits at the chest not because of WWE safety concerns. Heck, Punk knees people in the head when they are in the corner or on the ropes!

When Punk does the GTS on bigger guys (like Cena, HHH, Del Rio, etc), he can't hold them up high enough to drop them down with their head looking down. Punk is so strained and crouched holding these guys up on his shoulders, that he can barely lift them high enough!

When Punk drops them, the guys just fall on their feet, and hence are mostly vertical standing up! So Punk can't reach them high enough and hits them on the chest or stomach!

It looks so weak! It's no RKO, F5, or stunner - that's for sure!

CM Punk needs a new finisher against bigger guys.


Punk is aiming for the head/chin too! It's just that he misses most of the time!

He misses because Punk is not big and strong enough to lift guys like Cena, HHH, Orton, and even Alberto Del Rio.

He doesn't need a new finisher. He is fine with the stuff he has. If you still have a problem with it, then hope he does the Vice in his matches.

thejman93
10-04-2011, 01:37 PM
trollolololololol.

You really have a beef with Punk huh?

Robareid
10-04-2011, 01:39 PM
Just my opinion, but Punks GTS is one of the best finishers in the WWE. If you want a wrestler with bad finishers, talk about Dolph

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 01:45 PM
No dude! Wrestling is fake! LMAO

I want the world heavy title storylines to feature guys who can really make me believe that they can beat people up!

Right now, CM Punk looks weak in his matches! He needs new moves to better showchase his strengths.


trollolololololol.

You really have a beef with Punk huh?

HeelTurn
10-04-2011, 01:48 PM
I think a major point is how the opponents sell Kenta's GTS, they help make it look even more badass.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 01:49 PM
The finisher itself is good finisher.

It's CM Punk's execution of it that is not impressive! CM Punk is simply not big and strong enough to lift guys up high enough to hit the GTS properly - in the opponent's head!

Imagine somebody like a Brock Lesnar doing the GTS!

I don't see how CM Punk's knee to chest should be able to knock somebody out for the 3 count! I'm not buying it!


Just my opinion, but Punks GTS is one of the best finishers in the WWE. If you want a wrestler with bad finishers, talk about Dolph

thetheme
10-04-2011, 01:49 PM
GTS > "skull crushing finale"... If you want to talk about not hitting finishers on the big guys then this applies. However Punk can use Macho Man's elbow, or the anaconda vice. Just like Dolph has the sleeper hold and doesn't have to use the Zig Zag all the time. Could Swagger Power bomb everyone? That's why he uses the ankle lock. It's a weapon of choice. You want to talk about a signature that blows chunks, then it's the miz.

ratedy2jayz
10-04-2011, 01:50 PM
No dude! Wrestling is fake! LMAO

I want the world heavy title storylines to feature guys who can really make me believe that they can beat people up!

Right now, CM Punk looks weak in his matches! He needs new moves to better showchase his strengths.

Im pretty sure if any of the heavyweights told Punk to just knee them for real the GTS would be done perfectly.

thejman93
10-04-2011, 01:51 PM
No dude! Wrestling is fake! LMAO

I want the world heavy title storylines to feature guys who can really make me believe that they can beat people up!

Right now, CM Punk looks weak in his matches! He needs new moves to better showchase his strengths.

To the first part : What?

To the part about Punk: Don't let his size fool you, dude is a straight up ass kicker.

S.E. Zero
10-04-2011, 01:51 PM
No dude! Wrestling is fake! LMAO

I want the world heavy title storylines to feature guys who can really make me believe that they can beat people up!

Right now, CM Punk looks weak in his matches! He needs new moves to better showchase his strengths.

His strenghts that he's good at every skill. He can wrestle. He can fly high, go to the mat and play a submission, be a sound technical wrestler and even pull off lifting a few heavy guys every now and then which is what makes so verstaile and great to fight any kind of wrestler they put against him.

His many styles are his strenghts, there's no need to change anything in his repertoire.

If you dont like it thats fine but there is no need to change anything he does, cause what he does is great.

Robareid
10-04-2011, 01:52 PM
I think Punk is stronger than he looks. He hit several power moves in ROH against Samoa Joe, and he is no small dude

rss3004
10-04-2011, 01:55 PM
Just my opinion, but Punks GTS is one of the best finishers in the WWE. If you want a wrestler with bad finishers, talk about Dolph

What about the 'Attitude Adjustment'?

jethro
10-04-2011, 01:57 PM
Like someone mention the reason Punk GTS looks weak it's because of safety,theres one time Punk busted Rey's nose so it's kinda dangerous finisher.Leave the stiffness to KENTER

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 01:58 PM
Christian's finisher is more impressive than CM Punk's GTS.

Like Punk, Christian is not your *big guy*. So you don't see Christian trying to life guys over his shoulders.

(a side note: Christian is much more impressive in the ring than CM Punk, and if the WWE actually allowed Christian to be himself, Christian is better on the mic than CM Punk).

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 01:58 PM
What about the 'Attitude Adjustment'?

I don't mind the dreamer driv.... errr F.... er Attitude Adjustment
I also like the STF, its a simple submission, that gets the job done, just like the AA shows off what Cena's fans want to see, his abs... err I mean his strength. It fits him, and is a much better finisher than a walking leg drop

Iron Ape
10-04-2011, 02:01 PM
I think a major point is how the opponents sell Kenta's GTS, they help make it look even more badass.
I wonder how much of that is selling and how much is somewhat natural reacting from being kneefucked in the face.

thejman93
10-04-2011, 02:02 PM
kneefucked.

Word of the day.

Seriously though, good point.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 02:02 PM
It has nothing to do with safety! CM Punk knees and kicks people in the head all the time!

CM Punk has hit the GTS on people in the head several times in the past - mostly against guys his size or smaller!

Hence, your Rey Mysterio example! Rey Mysterio is a small guy, so Punk can lift him up easily and high enough, and release him better for the knee to the head!

But against bigger guys, CM Punk is not strong enough to do it like how he can do it to Rey Mysterio!



Like someone mention the reason Punk GTS looks weak it's because of safety,theres one time Punk busted Rey's nose so it's kinda dangerous finisher.Leave the stiffness to KENTER

Robareid
10-04-2011, 02:03 PM
I don't mind the dreamer driv.... errr F.... er Attitude Adjustment
I also like the STF, its a simple submission, that gets the job done, just like the AA shows off what Cena's fans want to see, his abs... err I mean his strength. It fits him, and is a much better finisher than a walking leg drop

What isn't. That move was so stupid during NWO era. You had some guys wrestling the same style that is wrestled today and you had hogan and his killer leg drop

Wade Barrett 1979
10-04-2011, 02:06 PM
Basically, you're not a fan of Punk! You prefer your wrestlers to be bigger guys (especially the main title holders) as you think they are more 'believeable!'

thejman93
10-04-2011, 02:08 PM
Basically, you're not a fan of Punk! You prefer your wrestlers to be bigger guys (especially the main title holders) as you think they are more 'believeable!'

Dingdingding! Give that man a prise!

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 02:09 PM
Wow.....you don't like Punk. Anyways I'll make this short and sweet: Punk doesn't need to change finishers. Both KENTA AND PUNK strain by lifting bigger men but they are still able to execute the move. Its up to the guy to sell it properly. If you don't like Punk's GTS then don't watch Punk wrestle. Easy.

Robareid
10-04-2011, 02:09 PM
Dingdingding! Give that man a prise!

I want a prise too, they sound fun :)

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 02:10 PM
What isn't. That move was so stupid during NWO era. You had some guys wrestling the same style that is wrestled today and you had hogan and his killer leg drop
so soo true
god I hate that move
seriously, when I was a kid watching (like 6 years old) that is the move that convinced me that my ma was right and wrestling was indeed fake

Peter Kaymakcian
10-04-2011, 02:10 PM
It has nothing to do with safety! CM Punk knees and kicks people in the head all the time!

CM Punk has hit the GTS on people in the head several times in the past - mostly against guys his size or smaller!

Hence, your Rey Mysterio example! Rey Mysterio is a small guy, so Punk can lift him up easily and high enough, and release him better for the knee to the head!

But against bigger guys, CM Punk is not strong enough to do it like how he can do it to Rey Mysterio!

Difference between GTS' kick and Punk's regular kicks is that Punk is in more control of his kicks to the head on the ground. There are no variables like in the GTS Kick. Because in the GTS Kick you have into question the factor of gravity, where the opponents lands on Punk's knee, the softness of Punk's knee pad, and many other factors. To compare moves down from the ground with variable factors to one's in the air is completely useless in this argument. Also on the ground Punk can still hit directly on the head and make it look fake due to the absence of gravity on the move. However in the GTS he can't so if Punk has to do this move to the roster 345 days out of the year there is a greater chance of injury for his opponents due to gravity. Don't blame Punk for trying to keep his opponents safe in the ring. That is his job in that ring.

Wade Barrett 1979
10-04-2011, 02:11 PM
Dingdingding! Give that man a prise!

I'll take a CM Punk ice cream bar! :p

thejman93
10-04-2011, 02:12 PM
I want a prise too, they sound fun :)

*gives 'reid a prize*

thejman93
10-04-2011, 02:13 PM
I'll take a CM Punk ice cream bar! :p

Well played sir....

Robareid
10-04-2011, 02:13 PM
Dang, only a prize, I wanted a prise

*goes and silks in a corner*

Rich Cranium
10-04-2011, 02:17 PM
Dang, only a prize, I wanted a prise

*goes and silks in a corner*

How does one 'silk'? You mean you are going wear silk?

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 02:29 PM
I don't dislike CM Punk.

I just don't think he is "world heavy championship" calibre. He looks weak in the ring against other world heavy championship contenders.

When I watch CM Punks matches against guys like Cena, Orton, HHH, and even Alberto Del Rio ... CM Punk does not convince me that he can legitimately beat these guys.

And he is not the "best wrestler in the world"!

For a guy who claims to not like gimmicks, CM Punk's is pulling a gimmick himself - claiming to be better than he really is!

That's my beef.


Basically, you're not a fan of Punk! You prefer your wrestlers to be bigger guys (especially the main title holders) as you think they are more 'believeable!'

thejman93
10-04-2011, 02:33 PM
Dang, only a prize, I wanted a prise

*goes and silks in a corner*

I misspelled prize, You did the same with sulk....Let's call it even.

Y2J___Y2J
10-04-2011, 02:34 PM
"Most of the time, the GTS doesn't even connect with the opponent's head! Punk's GTS hits the opponents in places like the chest, shoulders, or arms"
Yeaaah because it's not fucking supposed to.. to the average fan it is.. but everybody know's that it's fairly easy to knock someone out from kneeing them in the face..!!

"I've noticed that the WWE has started to film Punk's GTS move at obscured angles now so that the opponents can better sell getting hit in the head"
Of course.. because there trying to make it look like he really hits them in the face..

"CM Punk needs a new and more impressive finisher. A move that doesn't require him to lift bigger guys than him"
Most of the guys on the roster are bigger than him though.. So this is kinda stupid..

Kenta's does look a lot impressive tbh, mostly to do with how well it's sold..
DAMN think about shit before you post it..

thetheme
10-04-2011, 02:36 PM
I don't dislike CM Punk.

I just don't think he is "world heavy championship" calibre. He looks weak in the ring against other world heavy championship contenders.

When I watch CM Punks matches against guys like Cena, Orton, HHH, and even Alberto Del Rio ... CM Punk does not convince me that he can legitimately beat these guys.

And he is not the "best wrestler in the world"!

For a guy who claims to not like gimmicks, CM Punk's is pulling a gimmick himself - claiming to be better than he really is!

That's my beef.

Since you said this. I would like to know who do you think is "world heavyweight championship" calibre at this time and why. Just curious.

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 02:39 PM
How does one 'silk'?

with style!

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 02:40 PM
Wow, trying to use *physics* to explain why CM Punk cannot connect his GTS properly!

Every wrestling move has the potential to be dangerous.

You telling me Sheamus' move, where he rock-bottom's his opponent into his knee is not potentially as dangerous as the GTS?

What about the RKO or stunner? What about jumping from the top rope onto your opponent on the table? They all use gravity! Are they not dangerous too?

The WWE obviously approved the GTS finisher because it can be done safely while making it look legit.

The GTS is not that hard to do while making it look legit.

The problem is that when CM Punk faces bigger guys than him, he is not strong enough to make the move look legit, so the move misses its mark.

No need for gravity excuses! LOL


Difference between GTS' kick and Punk's regular kicks is that Punk is in more control of his kicks to the head on the ground. There are no variables like in the GTS Kick. Because in the GTS Kick you have into question the factor of gravity, where the opponents lands on Punk's knee, the softness of Punk's knee pad, and many other factors. To compare moves down from the ground with variable factors to one's in the air is completely useless in this argument. Also on the ground Punk can still hit directly on the head and make it look fake due to the absence of gravity on the move. However in the GTS he can't so if Punk has to do this move to the roster 345 days out of the year there is a greater chance of injury for his opponents due to gravity. Don't blame Punk for trying to keep his opponents safe in the ring. That is his job in that ring.

BlazersDozen
10-04-2011, 02:45 PM
I think a major point is how the opponents sell Kenta's GTS, they help make it look even more badass.

This

Not many ppl in the WWE have sold it very well.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 02:48 PM
Let's start with guys in the past: Rock, Austin, Lesnar, Undertaker, Goldberg, HHH, Batista, Bret Hart, Hogan, Sting

The current crop: there's a reason why Orton and Cena are top dogs in the WWE

As Austin stated, right now Cena is the only guy (not from his era) that has reached the level that he and guys like The Rock have. He thinks Orton has one more level more he can reach.

What do all these guys have in common? In the ring, they legitimately convince you that they can beat up anybody.

CM Punk has not convinced me he can legitimately beat guys that I have mentioned. Heck, Alberto Del Rio looks stronger than CM Punk in their matches!


Since you said this. I would like to know who do you think is "world heavyweight championship" calibre at this time and why. Just curious.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 02:51 PM
Rey Mysterio sold it well!

CM Punk needs a new devastating finisher against bigger guys!

What is CM Punk going to do when he faces a guy like Mark Henry or Kevin Nash?


This

Not many ppl in the WWE have sold it very well.

thetheme
10-04-2011, 02:58 PM
Wow, trying to use *physics* to explain why CM Punk cannot connect his GTS properly!

Every wrestling move has the potential to be dangerous.

You telling me Sheamus' move, where he rock-bottom's his opponent into his knee is not potentially as dangerous as the GTS?

What about the RKO or stunner? What about jumping from the top rope onto your opponent on the table? They all use gravity! Are they not dangerous too?

The WWE obviously approved the GTS finisher because it can be done safely while making it look legit.

The GTS is not that hard to do while making it look legit.

The problem is that when CM Punk faces bigger guys than him, he is not strong enough to make the move look legit, so the move misses its mark.

No need for gravity excuses! LOL

Legit? What about moves like "the people's elbow"? That ranks below Hogans' leg drop IMO. If by your logic is Punk facing guys bigger than him, then don't get me started on the miz and his sucky signature that will never be done to the bigger guys. Can Cody hit his signature on the bigger guys? There are guys that use other things to be successful you know.

thetheme
10-04-2011, 03:05 PM
Let's start with guys in the past: Rock, Austin, Lesnar, Undertaker, Goldberg, HHH, Batista, Bret Hart, Hogan, Sting

The current crop: there's a reason why Orton and Cena are top dogs in the WWE

As Austin stated, right now Cena is the only guy (not from his era) that has reached the level that he and guys like The Rock have. He thinks Orton has one more level more he can reach.

What do all these guys have in common? In the ring, they legitimately convince you that they can beat up anybody.

CM Punk has not convinced me he can legitimately beat guys that I have mentioned. Heck, Alberto Del Rio looks stronger than CM Punk in their matches!

Is there anyone you think besides Cena and Orton?

S.E. Zero
10-04-2011, 03:10 PM
I'll take a CM Punk ice cream bar! :p

Now I want one D=

SteveButabi
10-04-2011, 03:11 PM
I don't think anybody has ever explained to this guy that wrestling is fake.

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 03:14 PM
I don't think anybody has ever explained to this guy that wrestling is fake.

that is unfair
he get's that wrestling is fake, he just doesn't believe that CM Punk looks credible. That is his opinion and he is entitled to it. I, personally do not agree with most of what he has said in this thread, but then that is my opinion and I am entitled to it :)
(great how that works out)

Wade Barrett 1979
10-04-2011, 03:16 PM
Now I want one D=

Ha! Yeah come on, someone sort this shit out! :D

Peter Kaymakcian
10-04-2011, 03:17 PM
Wow, trying to use *physics* to explain why CM Punk cannot connect his GTS properly!

Every wrestling move has the potential to be dangerous.

You telling me Sheamus' move, where he rock-bottom's his opponent into his knee is not potentially as dangerous as the GTS?

What about the RKO or stunner? What about jumping from the top rope onto your opponent on the table? They all use gravity! Are they not dangerous too?

The WWE obviously approved the GTS finisher because it can be done safely while making it look legit.

The GTS is not that hard to do while making it look legit.

The problem is that when CM Punk faces bigger guys than him, he is not strong enough to make the move look legit, so the move misses its mark.

No need for gravity excuses! LOL

1.) Actually the use of physics does come into play due to the fact of gravity. So when you have an object in the air free falling like in the GTS physics and gravity due come into the equation. Now with Sheamus' back breaker he is still holding onto the opponent thus controlling the rate of fall for his opponent onto his knee. Punk can not control the rate of fall for his opponent. Also The human nose is a lot more fragile than the human back.

2.) Saying an RKO or Stunner is as equally as dangerous as the GTS is purely idiotic. With both of those moves the doer of the move is very much in control of the move throughout the entire motion of the move. The GTS you are not in control.

3.) As for ariel technique the difference is where you are getting hit. The face is a lot easier to damage and disfigure then the back. The face/head is a lot easier to sustain an injury then the back, arm, midsection, and legs. People can slip and get a concussion. That is why ariel techniques are a lot easier to do. Besides most dives through tables is just a simple body splash from the top which is so basic its not that bad. In fact a Frog Splash is a hell of a lot safer of a move then the GTS.

4.) No wrestling moves are extremely difficult to control and are extremely dangerous to perform. One miss step with one move could kill someone. Like the belly to back piledriver. If one part of that move is done wrong you put your opponent in serious jeapordy.

5.) Now just because you don't understand the complexity of gravity doesn't mean it is an invalid argument. Pick up a physics book and enlighten yourself.

Judas
10-04-2011, 03:21 PM
Ok I guess I am a CM Punk mark... I have been a fan of his all the way back to when he was in ECW.

Personally I think he is Championship material...

But I have to admit his finisher looks week... I think he should use the move we have seen Morrison use on occasion to win a match.. Honestly thought it was going to be his new finisher .. but since he is getting buried doesn't matter I guess.

Opponent on knees ... run at em plant the left foot in the chest and right knee to the face...

Krysys
10-04-2011, 03:23 PM
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0sbQ988_YyADaD1snM0ODI6OPTlMWt bkAHpDAdHm-cOrzuDl8

BlazersDozen
10-04-2011, 03:23 PM
Rey Mysterio sold it well!

CM Punk needs a new devastating finisher against bigger guys!

What is CM Punk going to do when he faces a guy like Mark Henry or Kevin Nash?

I agree about the big guys. He needs to be using the Vice on them because you can not logically hit that move on guys much taller than yourself.

About looking weak in matches...its so so. He does a lot of"muy thai" so you have to imagine that he's hitting precise spots with his kicks, knees & elbows but I can see your point as he has no high impact things. Rey is perfect because he didn't have high impact moves but it was somewhat believable because he made his pins & 619 usually look like it had the element of surprise.

dudelove
10-04-2011, 03:25 PM
New here, just something to say... He also broke Snitsky's nose. Snitsky was a big guy so I would say it's his oponent fault not selling it properly.

SteveButabi
10-04-2011, 03:35 PM
that is unfair
he get's that wrestling is fake, he just doesn't believe that CM Punk looks credible. That is his opinion and he is entitled to it. I, personally do not agree with most of what he has said in this thread, but then that is my opinion and I am entitled to it :)
(great how that works out)

Yeah, I know he knows it's fake. Yet he is talking like someone who thinks it's real. Really confuses me. In a "sport" where someone can rename an elbow drop or leg drop or suplex, and suddenly it becomes this devastating move. He doesn't think the GTS is "impressive" enough or looks weak. I'm going to let you in on a secret, squarecircle:

It's fake! They aren't really trying to hurt each other. Which takes a good amount of effort to still perform a move and not actually hurt the other person, so unfortunately they aren't all going to look perfect. If they all tried to make their moves look devastating and real as possible, half of them would be on the shelf with concussions right now.

AOF666
10-04-2011, 03:36 PM
Every time I seen Punk perform the GTS, it looks like it is painful, but again I never really payed attention where his knees hits.

ELNIOJR
10-04-2011, 04:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G9hjcRxM8Q

To be honest, I think 90% of them were awful. Here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkjUtAVzgVw

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 04:19 PM
Your basic claim is that CM Punk is *not allowed* to bring his knees toward the head area of his opponent during the GTS because its dangerous due to GRAVITY.

And that is ridiculous!

The whole point of the GTS is to put someone to "sleep" by knocking them out with a knee to the head!

If it was so dangerous, they wouldn't allow the move, just like the pile driver is not allowed!

The GTS can be done *safely* while still making it look legit - with the knee *LOOKING LIKE* it actually hits the guy in the head and knocks him out.

You're not suppose to drop them free falling flat down towards the ground. You drop the person *VERTICALLY* so that they land on their feet and are falling onto their knees! Then the doer brings his leg up towards the head area.

With smaller guys - like Rey Mysterio - CM Punk has no problems making it look like he knocks them out with his knees. He can easily lift guys like Mysterio up. And he can then bring his leg high enough to reach the head area.

It is a little more problematic against bigger guys. Not only is it more difficult to lift them up, it is also more difficult to drop them properly and bring your legs up high enough towards their head. Hence, why against bigger guys it looks like he hits them in the chest or stomach most of the time.

Some times it doesn't even look like he connects at all against any body part of his opponent!

Hence, why recently, a lot of his GTS moves have been shot from the back of the opponent so that we don't see the knee missing its mark - if it does miss.


1.) Actually the use of physics does come into play due to the fact of gravity. So when you have an object in the air free falling like in the GTS physics and gravity due come into the equation. Now with Sheamus' back breaker he is still holding onto the opponent thus controlling the rate of fall for his opponent onto his knee. Punk can not control the rate of fall for his opponent. Also The human nose is a lot more fragile than the human back.

2.) Saying an RKO or Stunner is as equally as dangerous as the GTS is purely idiotic. With both of those moves the doer of the move is very much in control of the move throughout the entire motion of the move. The GTS you are not in control.

3.) As for ariel technique the difference is where you are getting hit. The face is a lot easier to damage and disfigure then the back. The face/head is a lot easier to sustain an injury then the back, arm, midsection, and legs. People can slip and get a concussion. That is why ariel techniques are a lot easier to do. Besides most dives through tables is just a simple body splash from the top which is so basic its not that bad. In fact a Frog Splash is a hell of a lot safer of a move then the GTS.

4.) No wrestling moves are extremely difficult to control and are extremely dangerous to perform. One miss step with one move could kill someone. Like the belly to back piledriver. If one part of that move is done wrong you put your opponent in serious jeapordy.

5.) Now just because you don't understand the complexity of gravity doesn't mean it is an invalid argument. Pick up a physics book and enlighten yourself.

Brewer 314
10-04-2011, 04:20 PM
I don't like the GTS either.

Fresh finishing moves are scarce these days!

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 04:27 PM
No really, wrestling is fake? LMAO

It's fake but you are suppose to make it look as legitimate as possible.

The GTS is simply the wrong move for CM Punk to use as his finisher.

CM Punk's flying knee to the guy when's in the ropes or corner looks more devastating. On this move, Punk does not have to worry about trying lift somebody who weights twice as much as he does!


Yeah, I know he knows it's fake. Yet he is talking like someone who thinks it's real. Really confuses me. In a "sport" where someone can rename an elbow drop or leg drop or suplex, and suddenly it becomes this devastating move. He doesn't think the GTS is "impressive" enough or looks weak. I'm going to let you in on a secret, squarecircle:

It's fake! They aren't really trying to hurt each other. Which takes a good amount of effort to still perform a move and not actually hurt the other person, so unfortunately they aren't all going to look perfect. If they all tried to make their moves look devastating and real as possible, half of them would be on the shelf with concussions right now.

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 04:28 PM
Wow, that one looks brutal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YadHX4qiho&NR=1&feature=fvwp

also, my favorite of his finishers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoRGDrAfvh4

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 04:36 PM
Here's exhibit A: GTS to Cena


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skt6lno2RHA

Same may argue that it was Cena's fault. I will argue that the GTS is not the right finisher for CM Punk - he is not strong enough to pull it off against bigger guys.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 04:39 PM
Here's exhibit B: GTS to Kane


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycsp_vCqYRQ

Y2J___Y2J
10-04-2011, 04:40 PM
What a tool. Cena and Orton are the only credible guys.. Yes because Vince McMahon pushed them to the fucking moon.. He could do the same thing with any guy on the roster and make them look credible.. Consistantly winning against everyone = credible

With the GTS its all about the sell and the angle they show..
the thing that is most important is the safety of the wrestlers.. I would much rather have they do something that looks crap (even though the GTS does look good most of the time) than have him do something totally dangerous

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 04:42 PM
Here's Exhibit C: GTS to Holly


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXcSwRj1tvI

Was it really to the head? More like the shoulder!

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 04:46 PM
No Vince doesn't.

It's a business. Every wrestler is an investment. And Vince wants the maximum return in investment that he can get.

If Vince gives you a shot and you don't get over with the crowd, sell merchandise, and increase TV ratings, you won't get push any further.

Ask Wade Barrett and the members of Nexus!

Those who make $$$$$ for the company get pushed. It's that simple.


What a tool. Cena and Orton are the only credible guys.. Yes because Vince McMahon pushed them to the fucking moon.. He could do the same thing with any guy on the roster and make them look credible.. Consistantly winning against everyone = credible

Y2J___Y2J
10-04-2011, 04:47 PM
Was it really to the head? More like the shoulder!
Dude you can clearly see the most of Kenta's were to the shoulder..!

And another point about it not looking devastating .. Have you not seen the RKO .. or that crap Wade Barrett has for a finisher.. or even that Rock Bottom like finisher that a whole load of guys used .. ( Koslov, Otunga, Mason Ryan )

I see what you mean about guys taking there chances.. but if Vince doesn't like you enough then it doesn't matter how talented you are.. you are going nowhere in the WWE

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 04:48 PM
Here's Exhibit C: GTS to Evan Bourne


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i28Vsqu6rXQ

See how much more devastating the GTS looks when Punk faces a smaller wrestler?

maar13
10-04-2011, 04:48 PM
I don't dislike CM Punk.

I just don't think he is "world heavy championship" calibre. He looks weak in the ring against other world heavy championship contenders.

When I watch CM Punks matches against guys like Cena, Orton, HHH, and even Alberto Del Rio ... CM Punk does not convince me that he can legitimately beat these guys.

And he is not the "best wrestler in the world"!

For a guy who claims to not like gimmicks, CM Punk's is pulling a gimmick himself - claiming to be better than he really is!

That's my beef.

Nah your beef is that you don't like him, you might want to say otherwise but you don't like the guy, is that simple.

Beef for saying he is the best? that is his character man, every wrestlers put himself in high standard.

I mean, when he battled with Cena he didn't convinced you he was going to beat him? Not even after almost decapitating him with the knee to the head on the ropes? the damn kicks really looked good and with Del Riao was the same.

Also, just for the record, Kenta might go for the chin now, but he used to go for the base of the solar plex and it really sonded like he broke his opponents bones so it doesn't matter if it goes to the chest, a knee hit like that can take the wind out of anyone.

Also take on account that the pponent lies on his feet so he is the one giving way for the knee to ge tto the head, that simple.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 04:49 PM
Here's Exhibit D: GTS to Rey


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-h9OGvTcwE

Once again, it helps that Punk can easily carry Rey around like a baby.

Y2J___Y2J
10-04-2011, 04:52 PM
Here's Exhibit C: GTS to Evan Bourne


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i28Vsqu6rXQ

See how much more devastating the GTS looks when Punk faces a smaller wrestler?

You can still see Bourne block Punks knee with the palm of his hand.. But lets face it .. it's never going to look real.. because its not..!

Time for me to leave this thread.. Good Bye

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 05:00 PM
Here's Exhibit E: GTS to Undertaker


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1cYC5A9G-I

See how the camera cuts to the back angle of the Undertaker to hide the fact the the CM Punk barely touches the Undertaker?

dragonsrevenge
10-04-2011, 05:04 PM
Yeah, I find it a lame finisher too. Kenta's looks more impactful, but the entire thing just looks weak. Maybe it's the entire set up - a fireman's carry to a weak-looking knee-shot. Even the most convincing sells just look like oversells because it just doesn't look that painful. He's one who should stick with a submission hold, I think.

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 05:04 PM
Here's Exhibit E: GTS to Undertaker


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1cYC5A9G-I

See how the camera cuts to the back angle of the Undertaker to hide the fact the the CM Punk barely touches the Undertaker?

paused at 0:09 in, it looks good.
though if he is being more careful it could be out of legit fear that Taker will end him

TheGoblin
10-04-2011, 05:21 PM
+1 to SquareCircle

An artful troll that has been going on for nearly 10 pages, with no sign of letting up. I applaud you sir.

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 05:28 PM
+1 to SquareCircle

An artful troll that has been going on for nearly 10 pages, with no sign of letting up. I applaud you sir.

is this the new thing we are doing? calling anyone with a different opinion a troll?
He hasn't called anyone names, has stuck just to the opinions being discussed, and provided videos for his point of view...
odd thing for a troll to do.

Wade Barrett 1979
10-04-2011, 05:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSEhP2CzuGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq8WJF5lDcc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztgb1vDHXnw

These all look pretty ok to me!!

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 05:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSEhP2CzuGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq8WJF5lDcc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztgb1vDHXnw

These all look pretty ok to me!!

there we go
some debate!!!
awesome

TheGoblin
10-04-2011, 05:42 PM
is this the new thing we are doing? calling anyone with a different opinion a troll?
He hasn't called anyone names, has stuck just to the opinions being discussed, and provided videos for his point of view...
odd thing for a troll to do.

Trolling is the art of generating heat by taking what is accepted as the status quo and insulting it (see title of thread) and then feeding the ensuing replies in such a way that people feel personally insulted that the Troll dared question their "thing". While it may have seemed like I was insulting SquareCircle, In reality I was 100% honest when I said I applaud him. He generated a 10 page post and kept it going by daring to insult the IWC golden boy. I like punk, but I agree with SC, the GTS is lacking in an environment dominated by people who have 50 pounds or more on him.

68wPayne
10-04-2011, 05:45 PM
My vote goes for Punk using the Anaconda Vice or his old Devil Lock DDT

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 05:47 PM
The argument is that CM Punk has a hard time *CONSISTENTLY* hitting his GTS finisher *convincably* against the bigger superstars.

The GTS is the wrong finisher for CM Punk. For someone of CM Punk's stature, he needs a finisher that doesn't require him to have to lift guys over his shoulder. He needs a simpler finisher!



These all look pretty ok to me!!

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 05:49 PM
My vote goes for Punk using the Anaconda Vice or his old Devil Lock DDT

I like it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMuVS4ka7I0

Wade Barrett 1979
10-04-2011, 05:55 PM
The argument is that CM Punk has a hard time *CONSISTENTLY* hitting his GTS finisher *convincably* against the bigger superstars.

The GTS is the wrong finisher for CM Punk. For someone of CM Punk's stature, he needs a finisher that doesn't require him to have to lift guys over his shoulder. He needs a simpler finisher!

There's no reason why he can't have more than one finisher! Keep the GTS, throw in another! Simples!

Dr. Death
10-04-2011, 06:18 PM
Trolling is the art of generating heat by taking what is accepted as the status quo and insulting it (see title of thread) and then feeding the ensuing replies in such a way that people feel personally insulted that the Troll dared question their "thing". While it may have seemed like I was insulting SquareCircle, In reality I was 100% honest when I said I applaud him. He generated a 10 page post and kept it going by daring to insult the IWC golden boy. I like punk, but I agree with SC, the GTS is lacking in an environment dominated by people who have 50 pounds or more on him.

I'm sure Asherdelampyr knows what a troll is, but thank you for giving us the definition. As far as the GTS being weak, I have to disagree. One could say that about all finishers such as the 619, or the Zig Zag, even Cena's FU or Attitude adjustment - ( a glorified fisherman carry body slam ) - and his STF which is never hooked properly. I'm not bashing anyone, just pointing out the fact that the Stars of WWE and other promotions are supposed to make their finishers and holds look devestating while ensuring the safety of themselves and their opponents. That is one of the first things they teach you when trying out at a pro wrestling gym and in Developmental.

maar13
10-04-2011, 06:28 PM
Yeah, I find it a lame finisher too. Kenta's looks more impactful, but the entire thing just looks weak. Maybe it's the entire set up - a fireman's carry to a weak-looking knee-shot. Even the most convincing sells just look like oversells because it just doesn't look that painful. He's one who should stick with a submission hold, I think.

THe only porblem I find to that is that on top, who will be willing or allowed to tap out? I mean, there is still that stigma about faces never quitting.

I mean, John probably won't mind tapping out, but the whole Cena character is based on the fact he never quits, probably the way to push that would be to make people pass out from it ala Austin WM 13, but then again very few people are willing to go that way.

Taker did it for Foley and the Mandible claw but not everyone is willing to do that.

maar13
10-04-2011, 06:30 PM
I'm sure Asherdelampyr knows what a troll is, but thank you for giving us the definition. As far as the GTS being weak, I have to disagree. One could say that about all finishers such as the 619, or the Zig Zag, even Cena's FU or Attitude adjustment - ( a glorified fisherman carry body slam ) - and his STF which is never hooked properly. I'm not bashing anyone, just pointing out the fact that the Stars of WWE and other promotions are supposed to make their finishers and holds look devestating while ensuring the safety of themselves and their opponents. That is one of the first things they teach you when trying out at a pro wrestling gym and in Developmental.

Just for the record, the 619 is not really a inisher, but a set up to a final blow, none has ever beign pinned after a 619 but you have a very good point on the finisher's stuff.

Necroyeti
10-04-2011, 06:30 PM
http://i.imgur.com/pUAxm.jpg

dragonsrevenge
10-04-2011, 06:40 PM
THe only porblem I find to that is that on top, who will be willing or allowed to tap out? I mean, there is still that stigma about faces never quitting.

I mean, John probably won't mind tapping out, but the whole Cena character is based on the fact he never quits, probably the way to push that would be to make people pass out from it ala Austin WM 13, but then again very few people are willing to go that way.

Taker did it for Foley and the Mandible claw but not everyone is willing to do that.
Bret was THE guy for the WWE, and well...

Is Punk Bret? No. I dunno. It's just that he's got the Vyse, and nothing else in his repitoire is finisher worthy. Well, his Macho Man elbow is damn impressive. I like that Devillock DDT.

Peter Kaymakcian
10-04-2011, 06:59 PM
Your basic claim is that CM Punk is *not allowed* to bring his knees toward the head area of his opponent during the GTS because its dangerous due to GRAVITY.

And that is ridiculous!

The whole point of the GTS is to put someone to "sleep" by knocking them out with a knee to the head!

If it was so dangerous, they wouldn't allow the move, just like the pile driver is not allowed!

The GTS can be done *safely* while still making it look legit - with the knee *LOOKING LIKE* it actually hits the guy in the head and knocks him out.

You're not suppose to drop them free falling flat down towards the ground. You drop the person *VERTICALLY* so that they land on their feet and are falling onto their knees! Then the doer brings his leg up towards the head area.

With smaller guys - like Rey Mysterio - CM Punk has no problems making it look like he knocks them out with his knees. He can easily lift guys like Mysterio up. And he can then bring his leg high enough to reach the head area.

It is a little more problematic against bigger guys. Not only is it more difficult to lift them up, it is also more difficult to drop them properly and bring your legs up high enough towards their head. Hence, why against bigger guys it looks like he hits them in the chest or stomach most of the time.

Some times it doesn't even look like he connects at all against any body part of his opponent!

Hence, why recently, a lot of his GTS moves have been shot from the back of the opponent so that we don't see the knee missing its mark - if it does miss.

The only reason it is allowed is because Punk doesn't hit their face/head. It is only allowed because Punk doesn't hit the move on someone's head. What you don't realize that it is incredibly easy to get a concussion. A concussion means someone is not allowed to perform. Due to GRAVITY, the force upon earth that makes objects fall, Punk can not control how fast they fall which can lead to concussions, broken noses, and many other facial injuries that won't allow competitors to compete. Yes I'm sure seeing people land on their feet bending over to a knee is a lot more believable then Punk GTSing Cena.

maar13
10-04-2011, 07:02 PM
Bret was THE guy for the WWE, and well...

Is Punk Bret? No. I dunno. It's just that he's got the Vyse, and nothing else in his repitoire is finisher worthy. Well, his Macho Man elbow is damn impressive. I like that Devillock DDT.

I am not arguing that. I mean yes he can change finisher and do anything, my point was that the Anaconda is great don't get me wrong, but how many in the pressent time at the top are willing to tap out to it?

I love the move and Punk executes it very well, but same thing happened to Edge, he wanted to start ussing the Edgecator as a finisher (Painful Edge later) but none wanted to tap out to it when he was a rising heel.

As the matter of fact I would love for him to start using it again as a finisher, a vicious one but what I don't want to see is what happened to the move at MITB, Cena got up and transformed it into a AA and then it was like his arm was well with no side effects.

I mean the match was amazing but if you get up from a submission move at least sell the damn move, not a knoc on Cena but in general, most people nowadays don't do it.

Kincaid
10-04-2011, 07:12 PM
Let him do it to YOU. THEN tell me if it sucks.

dragonsrevenge
10-04-2011, 07:35 PM
True, it's, really the current state of the WWE as a whole. There's no real place for submissions. They're just excuses to build drama in a PPV match, or squashes on TV. Or another way for Supercena to come out on top.

Tyler Durden
10-04-2011, 07:38 PM
http://youtu.be/K3swCickDTw

dragonsrevenge
10-04-2011, 07:41 PM
Just for the record, the 619 is not really a inisher, but a set up to a final blow, none has ever beign pinned after a 619 but you have a very good point on the finisher's stuff.

Oh, right.. the 619 is lame as hell too. It was great as a counter against getting thrown out of the ring, but it's just lame because the person on the end has to just magically find themselves in the position to set it up and its not believable at all.

Finishers as a whole should look devastating, it can be simple (brogue kick, spear), it can be flashy (swanton), it can be brutal (WSS, Batista Bomb), but it has to look like something that can look painful and be convincingly sold. This really belongs in another thread, but I'm sure there's plenty, and this case has been made plenty of times.

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 08:09 PM
You can't say that the GTS sucks because you are also saying that KENTA's GTS sucks as well.

The GTS is a legit move(check out KENTA's GTS and also he does it against bigger guys Ex: Misawa)

The opponent falling down while the knee coming up is pretty devastating. My thought will remain that Punk doesn't need a new finisher for "big guys" since he can execute the move. The OP's problem is the selling. Cirlce dude, tell the WWE wrestlers that gets hit with the GTS to sell better.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 08:11 PM
Hello! Wrestling is not real!!! LOL

The GTS is suppose to make it *look like* he hits his opponent with a knee to the head. Never is Punk suppose to *actually* knee them in the head! LOL

As I have been saying, the GTS can be done safely to make it *look* real - thus, making it look real and impressive.

And as I have been saying, the problem is that when CM Punk is in the ring with a bigger wrestler, he has a hard time making it *look* real. Hence, it looks weak.

So your whole argument that Punk purposely is aiming for the chest/stomach/shoulders to avoid giving his opponents a real knockout and concussion is flat out WRONG!

CM Punk just flat out is not big and strong enough to do the GTS impressively against bigger wrestlers.

Listen to the commentators. When the GTS obviously misses it mark, it leaves them lost for words because they don't want to oversell a bad finish.


The only reason it is allowed is because Punk doesn't hit their face/head. It is only allowed because Punk doesn't hit the move on someone's head. What you don't realize that it is incredibly easy to get a concussion. A concussion means someone is not allowed to perform. Due to GRAVITY, the force upon earth that makes objects fall, Punk can not control how fast they fall which can lead to concussions, broken noses, and many other facial injuries that won't allow competitors to compete. Yes I'm sure seeing people land on their feet bending over to a knee is a lot more believable then Punk GTSing Cena.

NickAW1990
10-04-2011, 08:13 PM
I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this but I would quite like Punk to use the Pepsi Plunge (a top rope pedigree for anyone who does not know) every once in a while, but only if he could stick the landing, because every video I have ever seen him do it in he looks like his has blown his knee out.

Polly-Pablo
10-04-2011, 08:17 PM
I'm going to be honest, I've never been a fan of Punk and I don't particularly like the GTS as a move - it's not a convincing finishing move in my opinion.

Having said that, it's not because the GTS is Punk's choice of finisher that I don't like it/aren't convinced by it. I also don't like Christians finisher - but I love Christian.

I think the OP was trying to get his point across that the move doesn't look devastating enough to convince him that it would put someone out for the count of 3. And that's how he views it.

It may well be devastating to the other wrestler - BUT it doesn't come across as if it is. People shouldn't be called trolls for voicing an opinion that may be unpopular with the majority of the 'IWC'......and for the record I despise that we are all now herded into that catergory of IWC....can't just be a fan with an opinion anymore?!:(:p

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 08:18 PM
My thread topic is: "CM Punk's GTS finisher sucks"

Not that the GTS sucks in general.

Against smaller guys, CM Punk can make the GTS *look* devastating.

But against the bigger guys, CM Punk's GTS misses its mark a lot of the times. And that is because it is hard to make the GTS look *real* on a bigger guy! CM Punk is just not strong enough!

If these bigger guys want to *sell* CM Punk's GTS better ... then yeah, they need to just take the knee to the head for *REAL*. LMAO!


You can't say that the GTS sucks because you are also saying that KENTA's GTS sucks as well.

The GTS is a legit move(check out KENTA's GTS and also he does it against bigger guys Ex: Misawa)

The opponent falling down while the knee coming up is pretty devastating. My thought will remain that Punk doesn't need a new finisher for "big guys" since he can execute the move. The OP's problem is the selling. Cirlce dude, tell the WWE wrestlers that gets hit with the GTS to sell better.

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 08:19 PM
I'm going to be honest, I've never been a fan of Punk and I don't particularly like the GTS as a move - it's not a convincing finishing move in my opinion.

Having said that, it's not because the GTS is Punk's choice of finisher that I don't like it/aren't convinced by it. I also don't like Christians finisher - but I love Christian.

I think the OP was trying to get his point across that the move doesn't look devastating enough to convince him that it would put someone out for the count of 3. And that's how he views it.

It may well be devastating to the other wrestler - BUT it doesn't come across as if it is. People shouldn't be called trolls for voicing an opinion that may be unpopular with the majority of the 'IWC'......and for the record I despise that we are all now herded into that catergory of IWC....can't just be a fan with an opinion anymore?!:(:p
no, no we can not
on the other hand... Free bridge!

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 08:19 PM
I'm going to be honest, I've never been a fan of Punk and I don't particularly like the GTS as a move - it's not a convincing finishing move in my opinion.

I need to show you KENTA's GTS :)

Your mind will change.

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 08:22 PM
My thread topic is: "CM Punk's GTS finisher sucks"

Not that the GTS sucks in general.

Against smaller guys, CM Punk can make the GTS *look* devastating.

But against the bigger guys, CM Punk's GTS misses its mark a lot of the times. And that is because it is hard to make the GTS look *real* on a bigger guy! CM Punk is just not strong enough!

If these bigger guys want to *sell* CM Punk's GTS better ... then yeah, they need to just take the knee to the head for *REAL*. LMAO!

Again if you have a problem with the GTS, tell the WWE. Performing a GTS on a big man is quite the feat but the issue is how its sold and you obviously have a problem with it.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 08:26 PM
Remember: wrestling is not *real*

The GTS is suppose to make it *look like* the opponent gets knee to the head after being tossed from the executers shoulder.

When the executer has a hard time tossing and dropping his opponent and then hitting his opponent in the head with the knee, then the GTS move looks WEAK, and hence not convincing.

A lot of CM Punk's GTS finishes missed their mark.

It's that simple.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 08:29 PM
Hence, the purpose of this thread! LMAO

Wake up WWE! Wake up CM Punk!

You need a new finisher against your bigger opponents!


Again if you have a problem with the GTS, tell the WWE. Performing a GTS on a big man is quite the feat but the issue is how its sold and you obviously have a problem with it.

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 08:36 PM
Remember: wrestling is not *real*

The GTS is suppose to make it *look like* the opponent gets knee to the head after being tossed from the executers shoulder.

When the executer has a hard time tossing and dropping his opponent and then hitting his opponent in the head with the knee, then the GTS move looks WEAK, and hence not convincing.

A lot of CM Punk's GTS finishes missed their mark.

It's that simple.

Ok lets back up and restart so I can get a shred of your understanding.

You have a problem with the GTS because it doesn't land and it isn't convincing.

http://pds5.egloos.com/pds/200708/01/51/d0031151_01084565.gif/mg%3Cbr/%3E%3Cbr/%3ELOOK%20at%20KENTA%20actually%20prop%20his%20guy %20up%20in%20the%20air%20and%20actually%20hit%20wi th%20the%20knee%20face-on,%20the%20guy%20also%20sells%20like%20a%20damn%2 0trooper%20and%20its%20all%20around%20a%20OMG!%20T HAT%20MOVE%20ROCKS!%20move.%3Cbr/%3E%3Cbr/%3Eimghttp://pds4.egloos.com/pds/200702/22/45/c0027245_12020259.gif

Punk's GTS does land its mark and it is convincing but its hit somewhere else. Just because it hits somewhere else doesn't mean it is weak and not convincing.


(Another way to test your idea is to get hit with the GTS and bring back some analysis.)

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 08:37 PM
Hence, the purpose of this thread! LMAO

Wake up WWE! Wake up CM Punk!

You need a new finisher against your bigger opponents!


LMAO! We aren't WWE! Derp.

Again he doesn't need a new finisher. He is fine.

AOF666
10-04-2011, 08:40 PM
No Vince doesn't.

It's a business. Every wrestler is an investment. And Vince wants the maximum return in investment that he can get.

If Vince gives you a shot and you don't get over with the crowd, sell merchandise, and increase TV ratings, you won't get push any further.

Ask Wade Barrett and the members of Nexus!

Those who make $$$$$ for the company get pushed. It's that simple.

Then why doesn't people understand that about Daniel Bryan?

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 08:42 PM
We are the WWE universe!

The WWE exists to serve us because we sign their paychecks!

And this is the only way they can hear our *grievances* about the product: by complaining on the Internet! LMAO


LMAO! We aren't WWE! Derp.

Again he doesn't need a new finisher. He is fine.

HBK
10-04-2011, 08:44 PM
Wow a 12 page thread about a finisher? all b/c this guy don't like CM Punk...... WHO CARES??????????????????? It is a finisher most don't look like they would hurt so what?

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 08:46 PM
We are the WWE universe!

The WWE exists to serve us because we sign their paychecks!

And this is the only way they can hear our *grievances* about the product: by complaining on the Internet! LMAO

No we aren't the WWE Universe. There are more wrestling companies out there.

So you are butthurt for one move. Big deal. Get over it.

no bitch assness
10-04-2011, 08:48 PM
punk should just use the stone cold stunner as a way to taunt him so we can get that match at wrestlemania

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 08:58 PM
Dude, wrestling is not real!

If the GTS is done properly, it will not hurt me! LMAO

But it should still look devastating! It should still look like I am getting a devastating knee to the head as I get tossed up and fall down! When done properly, the GTS can look devastating.

A lot of the times, CM Punk's GTS misses it mark against the bigger superstars of the WWE. And that is simply because CM Punk is not big and strong enough to make it look devastating against these bigger guys.

More over, I don't find CM Punk *tough enough* in the wrestling ring against the bigger guys like Cena, Orton, HHH, Nash, Mark Henry, Undertaker, and even Alberto Del Rio.

I am not convince that CM Punk is a legitimate *world heavy champion title* contender, and hence should be a fixature of the world champion title storylines.

CM Punk right now is like a Chris Jericho, and at best could be a HBK. Guys like Jericho and HBK were never big threats in the world title scene during the Hogan, Austin, Rock, Lesnar, and Cena/Orton eras. So I don't see this changing any time soon for CM Punk.


Ok lets back up and restart so I can get a shred of your understanding.

You have a problem with the GTS because it doesn't land and it isn't convincing.

http://pds5.egloos.com/pds/200708/01/51/d0031151_01084565.gif/mg%3Cbr/%3E%3Cbr/%3ELOOK%20at%20KENTA%20actually%20prop%20his%20guy %20up%20in%20the%20air%20and%20actually%20hit%20wi th%20the%20knee%20face-on,%20the%20guy%20also%20sells%20like%20a%20damn%2 0trooper%20and%20its%20all%20around%20a%20OMG!%20T HAT%20MOVE%20ROCKS!%20move.%3Cbr/%3E%3Cbr/%3Eimghttp://pds4.egloos.com/pds/200702/22/45/c0027245_12020259.gif

Punk's GTS does land its mark and it is convincing but its hit somewhere else. Just because it hits somewhere else doesn't mean it is weak and not convincing.


(Another way to test your idea is to get hit with the GTS and bring back some analysis.)

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 09:01 PM
You seem to be butthurt that I am exposing the flaws of one of your heros CM Punk!

This is a wrestling forum where we can post topics to talk about it.

If you don't like it, you can get over it, and move on to something else! LMAO


No we aren't the WWE Universe. There are more wrestling companies out there.

So you are butthurt for one move. Big deal. Get over it.

AreYaSerious
10-04-2011, 09:01 PM
Christian's finisher is more impressive than CM Punk's GTS.

Like Punk, Christian is not your *big guy*. So you don't see Christian trying to life guys over his shoulders.

(a side note: Christian is much more impressive in the ring than CM Punk, and if the WWE actually allowed Christian to be himself, Christian is better on the mic than CM Punk).

That is just matter of opinion.

However I would like to see him use the Complete Shot to Koji Clutch more often, however I think the GTS is cool.

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 09:02 PM
Dude, wrestling is not real!

If the GTS is done properly, it will not hurt me! LMAO

But it should still look devastating! It should still look like I am getting a devastating knee to the head as I get tossed up and fall down! When done properly, the GTS can look devastating.

A lot of the times, CM Punk's GTS misses it mark against the bigger superstars of the WWE. And that is simply because CM Punk is not big and strong enough to make it look devastating against these bigger guys.

More over, I don't find CM Punk *tough enough* in the wrestling ring against the bigger guys like Cena, Orton, HHH, Nash, Mark Henry, Undertaker, and even Alberto Del Rio.

I am not convince that CM Punk is a legitimate *world heavy champion title* contender, and hence should be a fixature of the world champion title storylines.

CM Punk right now is like a Chris Jericho, and at best could be a HBK. Guys like Jericho and HBK were never big threats in the world title scene during the Hogan, Austin, Rock, Lesnar, and Cena/Orton eras. So I don't see this changing any time soon for CM Punk.

I wanna see you get hit with KENTA's GTS. I really do.

Nobody has ever told you this? If not I will tell you now.

"Pro Wrestling is real. People are fake."

Wrestling is real, genius. Just scripted.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 09:04 PM
Hello? Wrestling is not real!

None of the finishers are suppose to *actually* hurt.

But they are suppose to *look* devastating and exciting enough to make fans *believe* that its real so that we jump up and down cheering! LOL

CM Punks GTS finisher does not illicit that kind of excitment because it misses it mark a lot of the times.


Wow a 12 page thread about a finisher? all b/c this guy don't like CM Punk...... WHO CARES??????????????????? It is a finisher most don't look like they would hurt so what?

AreYaSerious
10-04-2011, 09:04 PM
You seem to be butthurt that I am exposing the flaws of one of your heros CM Punk!

This is a wrestling forum where we can post topics to talk about it.

If you don't like it, you can get over it, and move on to something else! LMAO


However repeating yourself over and over is boring, and not relevant. We got it the first time.

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 09:06 PM
http://pds5.egloos.com/pds/200708/01/51/d0031151_01084565.gif/mg%3Cbr/%3E%3Cbr/%3ELOOK%20at%20KENTA%20actually%20prop%20his%20guy %20up%20in%20the%20air%20and%20actually%20hit%20wi th%20the%20knee%20face-on,%20the%20guy%20also%20sells%20like%20a%20damn%2 0trooper%20and%20its%20all%20around%20a%20OMG!%20T HAT%20MOVE%20ROCKS!%20move.%3Cbr/%3E%3Cbr/%3Eimghttp://pds4.egloos.com/pds/200702/22/45/c0027245_12020259.gif

Sir, look at this.

This is fake? Sir, you are a fool. You don't know anything on wrestling.

AreYaSerious
10-04-2011, 09:08 PM
Hello? Wrestling is not real!

None of the finishers are suppose to *actually* hurt.

But they are suppose to *look* devastating and exciting enough to make fans *believe* that its real so that we jump up and down cheering! LOL

CM Punks GTS finisher does not illicit that kind of excitment because it misses it mark a lot of the times.

Alright let someone pick you up and drop you where there knee goes into your head. or locked into a anaconda vice, hells gate, sharpshooter, walls of jericho, figure 4 leg lock. You would tap out in seconds.

Tommy Thunder
10-04-2011, 09:13 PM
I like the GTS. It's a good finisher, and Punk does it well IMO.

I would like to see him use the Anaconda Vice more though. Cena uses the AA and STF equally as often, I'd like to see Punk do the same with the GtS and AV.

Wade Barrett 1979
10-04-2011, 09:13 PM
I am not convince that CM Punk is a legitimate *world heavy champion title* contender, and hence should be a fixature of the world champion title storylines.

CM Punk right now is like a Chris Jericho, and at best could be a HBK. Guys like Jericho and HBK were never big threats in the world title scene during the Hogan, Austin, Rock, Lesnar, and Cena/Orton eras. So I don't see this changing any time soon for CM Punk.

Right is this the same Jericho who beat Austin and Rock in the same night, to be the first Undisputed Champion! The same Jericho who beat Batista and Undertaker for the title!! Yup, he was never a threat!
Also you say he is not a legitimate, 'World Heavyweight Title' contender but should be a fixture in the world championship storylines (I assume you mean WWE Title?) They are, in essence the same thing but on different shows!! I don't follow your statement here?!?

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 09:18 PM
Dude, do I see CM Punk and WWE in that picture?

Clearly, we aren't talking about the real stiff wrestling that occurs in Japan.

The GTS - if done properly, where bother the executer and victim know what they are doing - will not really hurt you or knock you out.

So whatever point you are trying to make about CM Punk's GTS is mute with your Kenta examples.


http://pds5.egloos.com/pds/200708/01/51/d0031151_01084565.gif/mg%3Cbr/%3E%3Cbr/%3ELOOK%20at%20KENTA%20actually%20prop%20his%20guy %20up%20in%20the%20air%20and%20actually%20hit%20wi th%20the%20knee%20face-on,%20the%20guy%20also%20sells%20like%20a%20damn%2 0trooper%20and%20its%20all%20around%20a%20OMG!%20T HAT%20MOVE%20ROCKS!%20move.%3Cbr/%3E%3Cbr/%3Eimghttp://pds4.egloos.com/pds/200702/22/45/c0027245_12020259.gif

Sir, look at this.

This is fake? Sir, you are a fool. You don't know anything on wrestling.

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 09:19 PM
Right is this the same Jericho who beat Austin and Rock in the same night, to be the first Undisputed Champion! The same Jericho who beat Batista and Undertaker for the title!! Yup, he was never a threat!
Also you say he is not a legitimate, 'World Heavyweight Title' contender but should be a fixture in the world championship storylines (I assume you mean WWE Title?) They are, in essence the same thing but on different shows!! I don't follow your statement here?!?

I gave up afte his assertion that HBK wasn't in the main event in the attitude era because of his size, like he didnt get the title from Bret, or feud with SCSA and Taker before his back sidelined him for like 6 years

Wade Barrett 1979
10-04-2011, 09:26 PM
I gave up afte his assertion that HBK wasn't in the main event in the attitude era because of his size, like he didnt get the title from Bret, or feud with SCSA and Taker before his back sidelined him for like 6 years

Yup, you're right! Think I'll give up now, maybe try and find an online petition, to get my Punk ice cream bar!! :p

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 09:28 PM
Dude, do I see CM Punk and WWE in that picture?

Clearly, we aren't talking about the real stiff wrestling that occurs in Japan.

The GTS - if done properly, where bother the executer and victim know what they are doing - will not really hurt you or knock you out.

So whatever point you are trying to make about CM Punk's GTS is mute with your Kenta examples.

No it still applies because you are saying that wrestling is fake and yet you said "real" stiff wrestling when it comes to this so which is it?

The GTS is a legit move and can really knock someone out. Either you are delusional or just trolling.

Come back to us when you get hit with the GTS.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 09:32 PM
You do know that for wrestling to be entertaining, you need guys for your TOP DOGS to beat up right?

So it is in the best interest of your company to build up as many stars as possible so that there are interesting storylines for your top money maker stars to feud with.

Guys like Jericho were not on the same level as Austin and The Rock. They existed to give the TOP DOGS people to feud with. What good is it for Austin or the Rock if they continuely buried guys like Jericho?

What about HBK? HBK is one of the best performers ever. But how many times did HBK work in a world title story line with guys like Austin, The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Goldberg, Batista, The Undertaker, Cena, or Orton? None or very few and far between.

I just don't find CM Punk to be somebody who can beatup anybody he please at will. Look at his feud with Kevin Nash? Punk got his ass kicked every time he tried to mess with Nash - even though Punk said he would kick Nash's ass! LMAO

Trust me, Vince McMahon shares similar views as I do on CM Punk as a legitimate staple of the world heavy title storylines.



Right is this the same Jericho who beat Austin and Rock in the same night, to be the first Undisputed Champion! The same Jericho who beat Batista and Undertaker for the title!! Yup, he was never a threat!
Also you say he is not a legitimate, 'World Heavyweight Title' contender but should be a fixture in the world championship storylines (I assume you mean WWE Title?) They are, in essence the same thing but on different shows!! I don't follow your statement here?!?

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 09:33 PM
Dude, wrestling is not real! LMAO

How many wrestlers has CM Punk hit with the GTS who would then get up literally seconds later?! LMAO


No it still applies because you are saying that wrestling is fake and yet you said "real" stiff wrestling when it comes to this so which is it?

The GTS is a legit move and can really knock someone out. Either you are delusional or just trolling.

Come back to us when you get hit with the GTS.

zapphoman
10-04-2011, 09:41 PM
Well really, comparing Kentas GTS and CM Punks GTS, Kentas version is a lot more convincing. Not saying anything against Punks, I like Punks and it fits in well with the WWEs standards, but still Kentas version is better.

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 09:43 PM
Dude, wrestling is not real! LMAO

How many wrestlers has CM Punk hit with the GTS who would then get up literally seconds later?! LMAO

Its scripted so what is your point, parrot?

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO!

Again, if you are that confident that the GTS is NOT a real move to get knocked out with then try it.

Polly-Pablo
10-04-2011, 09:46 PM
no, no we can not
on the other hand... Free bridge!

Eh?.........

Polly-Pablo
10-04-2011, 09:48 PM
I need to show you KENTA's GTS :)

Your mind will change.

No SG - it's the move that I don't like - not who does it. *although I dislike him intensely and the more people try to convince me otherwise, the more I dislike him and his wrestling style*

ps - You know I'll admit when stuff is good - but you also know me well enough to know that I ain't changing my opinion anytime soon just because it's against the popular opinion!

pps - This debate is all your fault...:p

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 09:53 PM
Eh?.........
trolls... Bridges... Thought that one made sense

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 09:55 PM
No SG - it's the move that I don't like - not who does it. *although I dislike him intensely and the more people try to convince me otherwise, the more I dislike him and his wrestling style*

ps - You know I'll admit when stuff is good - but you also know me well enough to know that I ain't changing my opinion anytime soon just because it's against the popular opinion!

pps - This debate is all your fault...:p


No Polly! The GTS performed by the inventor himself, KENTA.

He does WAY better than Punk.

Polly-Pablo
10-04-2011, 09:57 PM
No Polly! The GTS performed by the inventor himself, KENTA.

He does WAY better than Punk.

*sighs*

I'll say it slowly.......

I. DO. NOT. LIKE. THE. MOVE!!!!!!

I also don't like the chokeslam or the Batista bomb but nobody gets on me about that lol

Polly-Pablo
10-04-2011, 09:58 PM
trolls... Bridges... Thought that one made sense

Obviously not to everyone.......thanks for the clarification though, I'll come back to this when I've had some sleep

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 09:59 PM
Be difficult then lol

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 10:00 PM
Once Austin 3:16 arrived, it was in with the NEW and out with OLD.

That is why Vince was willing to let Bret Hart go. And even if HBK never retired due to his *back injury*, HBK no longer fit into the Attitude-Austin era.

Let's compare status of wrestlers through the years:

HBK vs Hogan? Hogan > HBK
HBK vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart = HBK
HBK vs Austin? Austin > HBK
HBK vs Rock? Rock > HBK
HBK vs HHH? HHH > HBK
HBK vs Goldberg? Goldberg > HBK
HBK vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > HBK
HBK vs Undertaker? Undertake > HBK
HBK vs Cena? Cena > HBK
HBK vs Orton? Orton > HBK

Even if HBK never injured his back, there is no way HBK would have been a permanent legitimate fixature of the world heavy champion storylines. There were just too many bigger stars ahead of him.

And is it just a coincidence that all these stars were *bigger* then him?

Same story goes for the current WWE.

With Cena and Orton as the top dogs, and with the new BIGGER and younger stars emerging, there is no way CM Punk can be permanant fixature of the world heavy championship title scene.


I gave up afte his assertion that HBK wasn't in the main event in the attitude era because of his size, like he didnt get the title from Bret, or feud with SCSA and Taker before his back sidelined him for like 6 years

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 10:03 PM
Dude, if you do the GTS with the real intention of trying to actually knock that person out, well duh ... of course its going to hurt!

But that is not what we are talking about here!

LMAO


Its scripted so what is your point, parrot?

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO!

Again, if you are that confident that the GTS is NOT a real move to get knocked out with then try it.

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 10:06 PM
Dude, if you do the GTS with the real intention of trying to actually knock that person out, well duh ... of course its going to hurt!

But that is not what we are talking about here!

LMAO

And why do you think that they won't allow it to knock a wrestler out? Take a guess.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 10:11 PM
Japan wrestling is really stiff.

Nobody in the WWE would take a GTS like they do in Japan. Plus, the WWE protects their *investment*.

If Kenta were to do the GTS in the WWE, it would be the same as CM Punk's GTS.


Well really, comparing Kentas GTS and CM Punks GTS, Kentas version is a lot more convincing. Not saying anything against Punks, I like Punks and it fits in well with the WWEs standards, but still Kentas version is better.

AreYaSerious
10-04-2011, 10:16 PM
Once Austin 3:16 arrived, it was in with the NEW and out with OLD.

Let's compare status of wrestlers through the years:


HBK vs Hogan? Hogan > HBK
I beg to differ, Sure Hogan was better, but HBK didn't get boring like Hogan

HBK vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart = HBK
Bullshit

HBK vs Austin? Austin > HBK
Give me a hell no, Austin was great, but HBK is a better wrestler

HBK vs Rock? Rock > HBK
Rock had a fan base like no other, Rock was the man.

HBK vs HHH? HHH > HBK
It couldn't be because HHH is married to Vince's daughter, however HBK is the main reason HHH is where he is at today (DX)

HBK vs Goldberg? Goldberg > HBK
I don't even remember Goldberg

HBK vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > HBK
well Lesnar was a beast, however who had more fans?

HBK vs Undertaker? Undertake > HBK
The man was in the company for so long, nobody could compare against undertaker

HBK vs Cena? Cena > HBK
HBK is more entertaining, and has more then 5 moves

HBK vs Orton? Orton > HBK
I'm an Orton fan, however I remember Shawn Michaels getting the better of both Edge and Orton.


Even if HBK never injured his back, there is no way HBK would have been a permanent legitimate fixature of the world heavy champion storylines. There were just too many bigger stars ahead of him.

And is it just a coincidence that all these stars were *bigger* then him?[/quote}

So your saying HBK had no success in the WWE.
You have no idea what your talking about.

[quote]Same story goes for the current WWE.

With Cena and Orton as the top dogs, and with the new BIGGER and younger stars emerging, there is no way CM Punk can be permanant fixature of the world heavy championship title scene.
Alright that's why Punk is one of the top guys on Raw, I think he is more popular then John Cena, and as for Orton, if Orton was moved to SmackDown Punk would oh already surpassed him.

Size has nothing to do with success.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 10:16 PM
It doesn't matter which wrestling finisher you do, if you do any wrestling finisher for *real*, or if you do it improperly, you can really hurt somebody.

But again, this is not what we are talking about!

We're talking about how CM Punk's *fake* GTS finish does not look impressive - especially when he does it against BIGGER guys than him.

If CM Punk actually did the GTS for *real* - with the intentions of hurting his opponent - well duh, of course it will hurt and look more impressive. But sadly, wrestling is not *real*!


And why do you think that they won't allow it to knock a wrestler out? Take a guess.

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 10:16 PM
Japan wrestling is really stiff.

Nobody in the WWE would take a GTS like they do in Japan. Plus, the WWE protects their *investment*.

If Kenta were to do the GTS in the WWE, it would be the same as CM Punk's GTS.

You see how these two contradict with each other don't you?

SilverGhost
10-04-2011, 10:17 PM
It doesn't matter which wrestling finisher you do, if you do any wrestling finisher for *real*, or if you do it improperly, you can really hurt somebody.

But again, this is not what we are talking about!

We're talking about how CM Punk's *fake* GTS finish does not look impressive - especially when he does it against BIGGER guys than him.

If CM Punk actually did the GTS for *real* - with the intentions of hurting his opponent - well duh, of course it will hurt and look more impressive. But sadly, wrestling is not *real*!

Since you like to give the same answers, I'll give mine.

Don't watch it.

Get over it.

AreYaSerious
10-04-2011, 10:20 PM
Dude your posting the same thing over and over again. You're making comparisons to Punk and HBK, which are nowhere near alike in anyway. IN the process your are contradicting yourself... You have no idea what your talking about, your making yourself look stupid.

zapphoman
10-04-2011, 10:21 PM
Since you like to give the same answers, I'll give mine.

Don't watch it.

Get over it.

Yeah when you see the move about to happen, just cover your eyes. Like it's a scary scene from a horror movie, or like I used to do when a fatality was about to happen on Mortal Kombat(when I was younger).

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 10:23 PM
Dude, pro wrestling is not about who is more athletic or a better technical wrestler.

Sure, HBK is better in-ring performer than guys like Austin, Hogan, and Goldberg.

The point of my list is to illustrate that there is just no way Vince or Eric Bishoff (in WCW) would ever book HBK as a top dog against the guys I listed.

HBK's time was during the end of the Bret Hart era and ended with the start of the Austin era.




I beg to differ, Sure Hogan was better, but HBK didn't get boring like Hogan

Bullshit

Give me a hell no, Austin was great, but HBK is a better wrestler

Rock had a fan base like no other, Rock was the man.

It couldn't be because HHH is married to Vince's daughter, however HBK is the main reason HHH is where he is at today (DX)

I don't even remember Goldberg

well Lesnar was a beast, however who had more fans?

The man was in the company for so long, nobody could compare against undertaker

HBK is more entertaining, and has more then 5 moves

I'm an Orton fan, however I remember Shawn Michaels getting the better of both Edge and Orton.

And is it just a coincidence that all these stars were *bigger* then him?

So your saying HBK had no success in the WWE.
You have no idea what your talking about.


Alright that's why Punk is one of the top guys on Raw, I think he is more popular then John Cena, and as for Orton, if Orton was moved to SmackDown Punk would oh already surpassed him.

Size has nothing to do with success.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 10:28 PM
Do you really think Punk can surpass HBK's accomplishments?

If no, then how can you argue that Punk deserves to be a permanent fixature of the world heavy championship title storylines when HBK never was for the bulk of his career?


Dude your posting the same thing over and over again. You're making comparisons to Punk and HBK, which are nowhere near alike in anyway. IN the process your are contradicting yourself... You have no idea what your talking about, your making yourself look stupid.

chunkkynutzzz
10-04-2011, 10:28 PM
I Agree with Everthing

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 10:31 PM
If I'm giving you the same answer, it's because you keep thinking we are talking about doing a *real* GTS!

Stay on topic!

LMAO!



Since you like to give the same answers, I'll give mine.

Don't watch it.

Get over it.

AreYaSerious
10-04-2011, 10:34 PM
Do you really think Punk can surpass HBK's accomplishments?

If no, then how can you argue that Punk deserves to be a permanent fixature of the world heavy championship title storylines when HBK never was for the bulk of his career?

Yep HBK never held the championship that much but he held almost ever single title there was. More then a lot of people you already said.

as for Punk
Punk is stepping it up, he started a storyline that will go down in history... How's that for an accomplishment?

AreYaSerious
10-04-2011, 10:40 PM
Dude, pro wrestling is not about who is more athletic or a better technical wrestler.

So pro wrestling has nothing to do with wrestling? Wow I learned something today.


Sure, HBK is better in-ring performer than guys like Austin, Hogan, and Goldberg.
Finally something that makes sense.

The point of my list is to illustrate that there is just no way Vince or Eric Bishoff (in WCW) would ever book HBK as a top dog against the guys I listed.
Back then they kept it fresh, not like today, someone who keeps a title for one ppv to another, and it's usually just one person. Holding the title is prestigious as it was.[/quote]


HBK's time was during the end of the Bret Hart era and ended with the start of the Austin era.

Exactly, that was a long ways apart. He hurt his back. You come back from a back injury, and be great like you were before it. Michaels is one of the greatest of all time and your telling me he didn't accomplish anything....

Asherdelampyr
10-04-2011, 10:42 PM
Do you really think Punk can surpass HBK's accomplishments?

If no, then how can you argue that Punk deserves to be a permanent fixature of the world heavy championship title storylines when HBK never was for the bulk of his career?
before I defended you, I stand corrected, you really are just a troll
wasn't a heavyweight championship fixture for the bulk of his career? Really? cause I seem to remember him being a 4 time heavyweight champ, and the first ever grandslam champ, both during the Attitude Era (http://www.wwe.com/superstars/halloffame/inductees/hbk) As well as winning multiple intercontinental, european and tag team championships... To put it bluntly, every time you type out a response, you just seem less and less intelligent.

Krysys
10-04-2011, 10:54 PM
Is this still going on??

AreYaSerious
10-04-2011, 11:01 PM
Is this still going on??

Sadly however I'm done arguing with him. The rest of you have fun.

SESAfro
10-04-2011, 11:05 PM
Whoa, the tangents this thread went through.

KENTA's GTS > Punk's GTS, only because the people selling his MUCH better.

Vegas
10-04-2011, 11:11 PM
Ok reading this hurt my head. As for size playing an issue I call bull shit. Look at Orton. He isn't the biggest but he is in the main event postion

CobraNightviper
10-04-2011, 11:50 PM
I agree totally but throwing in a few of his older moves every now and then would be cool.
LMAO! We aren't WWE! Derp.

Again he doesn't need a new finisher. He is fine.

squarecircle
10-04-2011, 11:51 PM
Let's try this again?!

Let me re-phrase the question this time:

Who would make for a more legitimate world heavy champion?

HBK vs Hogan? Hogan > HBK
HBK vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart = HBK (my preference is for Bret Hart)
HBK vs Austin? Austin > HBK
HBK vs Rock? Rock > HBK
HBK vs HHH? HHH > HBK
HBK vs Goldberg? Goldberg > HBK
HBK vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > HBK
HBK vs Undertaker? Undertaker > HBK
HBK vs Cena? Cena > HBK
HBK vs Orton? Orton > HBK


Now what about: HBK vs CM Punk?

In my objective opinion: HBK > CM Punk

Follow the logic here?

Convince me that CM Punk is *better* than HBK in terms of value and impact to the industry and WWE company.

If CM Punk is not even on HBK's level, well then, how can you consider CM Punk as a *legitimate* world heavy championship title contender?

Let me make it even clearer then:

Punk vs HBK? HBK > Punk

Then clearly:
Punk vs Hogan? Hogan > Punk
Punk vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart > Punk
Punk vs Austin? Austin > Punk
Punk vs Rock? Rock > Punk
Punk vs HHH? HHH > Punk
Punk vs Goldberg? Goldberg > Punk
Punk vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > Punk
Punk vs Undertaker? Undertaker > Punk
Punk vs Cena? Cena > Punk
Punk vs Orton? Orton > Punk

Make sense?

Vegas
10-05-2011, 12:14 AM
Let's try this again?!

Let me re-phrase the question this time:

Who would make for a more legitimate world heavy champion?

HBK vs Hogan? Hogan > HBK
HBK vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart = HBK (my preference is for Bret Hart)
HBK vs Austin? Austin > HBK
HBK vs Rock? Rock > HBK
HBK vs HHH? HHH > HBK
HBK vs Goldberg? Goldberg > HBK
HBK vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > HBK
HBK vs Undertaker? Undertaker > HBK
HBK vs Cena? Cena > HBK
HBK vs Orton? Orton > HBK


Now what about: HBK vs CM Punk?

In my objective opinion: HBK > CM Punk

Follow the logic here?

Convince me that CM Punk is *better* than HBK in terms of value and impact to the industry and WWE company.

If CM Punk is not even on HBK's level, well then, how can you consider CM Punk as a *legitimate* world heavy championship title contender?

Let me make it even clearer then:

Punk vs HBK? HBK > Punk

Then clearly:
Punk vs Hogan? Hogan > Punk
Punk vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart > Punk
Punk vs Austin? Austin > Punk
Punk vs Rock? Rock > Punk
Punk vs HHH? HHH > Punk
Punk vs Goldberg? Goldberg > Punk
Punk vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > Punk
Punk vs Undertaker? Undertaker > Punk
Punk vs Cena? Cena > Punk
Punk vs Orton? Orton > Punk

Make sense?

After reading this its pretty clear that this thread is not about punk not being able to hit the GTS but rather a punk bashing thread which makes any point you try to make invalid

Krysys
10-05-2011, 12:17 AM
Let's try this again?!

Let me re-phrase the question this time:

Who would make for a more legitimate world heavy champion?

HBK vs Hogan? Hogan > HBK
HBK vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart = HBK (my preference is for Bret Hart)
HBK vs Austin? Austin > HBK
HBK vs Rock? Rock > HBK
HBK vs HHH? HHH > HBK
HBK vs Goldberg? Goldberg > HBK
HBK vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > HBK
HBK vs Undertaker? Undertaker > HBK
HBK vs Cena? Cena > HBK
HBK vs Orton? Orton > HBK


Now what about: HBK vs CM Punk?

In my objective opinion: HBK > CM Punk

Follow the logic here?

Convince me that CM Punk is *better* than HBK in terms of value and impact to the industry and WWE company.

If CM Punk is not even on HBK's level, well then, how can you consider CM Punk as a *legitimate* world heavy championship title contender?

Let me make it even clearer then:

Punk vs HBK? HBK > Punk

Then clearly:
Punk vs Hogan? Hogan > Punk
Punk vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart > Punk
Punk vs Austin? Austin > Punk
Punk vs Rock? Rock > Punk
Punk vs HHH? HHH > Punk
Punk vs Goldberg? Goldberg > Punk
Punk vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > Punk
Punk vs Undertaker? Undertaker > Punk
Punk vs Cena? Cena > Punk
Punk vs Orton? Orton > Punk

Make sense?

Ok, it's now really obvious that your problem is not with The GTS, but with CM Punk, and you created this thread simply to bash him, you are troll, plain and simple. End thread

squarecircle
10-05-2011, 12:36 AM
Sorry dude ... go re-read the thread. Others turned this thread into a: CM Punk is so awesome thread, so how dare you criticize his GTS finisher!

I was specifically asked by others what I thought of CM Punk overall. So my answer in short is this: HBK > CM Punk

If you read my OP, it clearly states that CM Punk cannot legitimately pull off the GTS against the bigger and stronger heavy weights in the world championship title storylines. It looks weak!

CM Punk's weak GTS finisher is clearly due to CM Punk's smaller size and weaker strength compared to the other world heavy weight championship contenders.

Many took offense to this.


Ok, it's now really obvious that your problem is not with The GTS, but with CM Punk, and you created this thread simply to bash him, you are troll, plain and simple. End thread

maar13
10-05-2011, 02:21 AM
Let's try this again?!

Let me re-phrase the question this time:

Who would make for a more legitimate world heavy champion?

HBK vs Hogan? Hogan > HBK
HBK vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart = HBK (my preference is for Bret Hart)
HBK vs Austin? Austin > HBK
HBK vs Rock? Rock > HBK
HBK vs HHH? HHH > HBK
HBK vs Goldberg? Goldberg > HBK
HBK vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > HBK
HBK vs Undertaker? Undertaker > HBK
HBK vs Cena? Cena > HBK
HBK vs Orton? Orton > HBK


Now what about: HBK vs CM Punk?

In my objective opinion: HBK > CM Punk

Follow the logic here?

Convince me that CM Punk is *better* than HBK in terms of value and impact to the industry and WWE company.

If CM Punk is not even on HBK's level, well then, how can you consider CM Punk as a *legitimate* world heavy championship title contender?

Let me make it even clearer then:

Punk vs HBK? HBK > Punk

Then clearly:
Punk vs Hogan? Hogan > Punk
Punk vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart > Punk
Punk vs Austin? Austin > Punk
Punk vs Rock? Rock > Punk
Punk vs HHH? HHH > Punk
Punk vs Goldberg? Goldberg > Punk
Punk vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > Punk
Punk vs Undertaker? Undertaker > Punk
Punk vs Cena? Cena > Punk
Punk vs Orton? Orton > Punk

Make sense?

Well maybe that is your point of view but if we go on rumors the only reason why HBK didn't got more runs with the title was his refusal of extending his schedule.

In the end that is what The Undertaker was willing to do when he got his last runs, he would go to most house shows during that period and Michaels was not willing to do so.

Also, sorry but your comparisons are laughable.

Orton and Cena better champions than HBK? Sorry but to all due respect to those guys, Shawn was a far better champion than both. Actually the guy's first reign lasted 8 months and there he defeated guys like Nash, Vader and to start the second one he defeated Sid.

Comparing him to Brock is just lame, same goes with Goldberg, both big guys, but HBK was the perfect underdog to go against them.

Now on topic.

The GTS Punk uses and also Kenta, depends on the willingness of the opponent to put his face there, it really doesn't matter much the size, I mean as you can see the guy in the Kenta video does not lowers his legs at all and receives the blow full force, in exchange of John Cena, or Orton or Taker or even HHH getting their legs in the way and failing to get to Punk's position. The day Mysterio got his nose broken he didn't put anything to protect himself that much.

A finisher like that requires both parties to cooperate.

Also, does it sometimes looks bad? sometimes. but the comparisons you do are so biased that are just lame.

I mean I liked Bret better but it was obvious that people at WWE liked HBK better when the time came for him to become champion.

Dr. Death
10-05-2011, 07:20 AM
Sorry dude ... go re-read the thread. Others turned this thread into a: CM Punk is so awesome thread, so how dare you criticize his GTS finisher!

I was specifically asked by others what I thought of CM Punk overall. So my answer in short is this: HBK > CM Punk

If you read my OP, it clearly states that CM Punk cannot legitimately pull off the GTS against the bigger and stronger heavy weights in the world championship title storylines. It looks weak!

CM Punk's weak GTS finisher is clearly due to CM Punk's smaller size and weaker strength compared to the other world heavy weight championship contenders.

Many took offense to this.

The point is:
1. It is your opinion the GTS is a weak finisher for CM Punk
2. You are not comfortable with others disagreeing with your opinion
3. You either like to argue or you think your always right
4. You've made some good points defending your opinion
5. Other posters have made good points against your opinion
6. It is only an opinion about a certain wrestlers finisher and has carried on for18 pages now
7. It's time for this to end
8. Let's close this thread already

Also to follow your other quote, I'll highlight the portions I disagree with:

Originally Posted by squarecircle
Let's try this again?!

Let me re-phrase the question this time:

Who would make for a more legitimate world heavy champion?

HBK vs Hogan? Hogan > HBK - HBK was entertaing, Hogan just plain blows IMO
HBK vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart = HBK (my preference is for Bret Hart)
HBK vs Austin? Austin > HBK
HBK vs Rock? Rock > HBK - Disagree
HBK vs HHH? HHH > HBK
HBK vs Goldberg? Goldberg > HBK - Disagree
HBK vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > HBK
HBK vs Undertaker? Undertaker > HBK
HBK vs Cena? Cena > HBK - Completely Disagree
HBK vs Orton? Orton > HBK - About on the same page


Now what about: HBK vs CM Punk?

In my objective opinion: HBK > CM Punk - Same page or = to

Follow the logic here?

Convince me that CM Punk is *better* than HBK in terms of value and impact to the industry and WWE company. - CM Punk is fighting for change and HBK did what he was told.

If CM Punk is not even on HBK's level, well then, how can you consider CM Punk as a *legitimate* world heavy championship title contender?- Again this is your opinion not a fact

Let me make it even clearer then:

Punk vs HBK? HBK > Punk - Disagree, my opinion is they are about = to each other

Then clearly:
Punk vs Hogan? Hogan > Punk - LMAO, Disagree Hogan knew what, 4 moves?
Punk vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart > Punk
Punk vs Austin? Austin > Punk
Punk vs Rock? Rock > Punk - Rock's finisher "the people's elbow" is super weak compared to Punk's GTS
Punk vs HHH? HHH > Punk - Again, just your opinion
Punk vs Goldberg? Goldberg > Punk - Goldberg has contributed nothing to wrestling
Punk vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > Punk
Punk vs Undertaker? Undertaker > Punk
Punk vs Cena? Cena > Punk - Punk's merchandise has outsold Cena's merchandise sales, also Punk has more move sets
Punk vs Orton? Orton > Punk - About = to in my opinion

Make sense? - Not even close. However it might if you refuse to look at any real facts and pretend that your always right.

VanHooliganX
10-05-2011, 07:38 AM
After reading this its pretty clear that this thread is not about punk not being able to hit the GTS but rather a punk bashing thread which makes any point you try to make invalid

Hit the nail of the head right there.

Have to atmit though its been a while since one has appeared which is good.

squarecircle
10-05-2011, 12:46 PM
The point is:
1. It is your opinion the GTS is a weak finisher for CM Punk
2. You are not comfortable with others disagreeing with your opinion
3. You either like to argue or you think your always right
4. You've made some good points defending your opinion
5. Other posters have made good points against your opinion
6. It is only an opinion about a certain wrestlers finisher and has carried on for18 pages now
7. It's time for this to end
8. Let's close this thread already


No dude, the point is that the CM Punk marks can't handle valid criticisms about their favorite wrestler.

I've backed up my argument with actually video footage that clearly shows how CM Punk has a hard time hitting his GTS properly against the bigger superstars. And my explanation is that CM Punk is smaller and weaker than most of the *heavy weights*, hence it makes it difficult on him to do the GTS properly.

Are the CM Punk marks denying that Punk's GTS misses it marks a lot against the *heavy weights*?

Are the CM Punk marks denying that Punk is physically smaller and weaker than most of the other *heavy weights*?

Are the CM Punk marks denying that Punk looks physically weaker in his matches against the other *heavy weights*?

So if you disagree with my observations about CM Punk, then give me reasons to consider why you are right. That's the whole point of forums! To debate, discuss, and share! You think you are right, will prove it!

None of the CM Punk marks have given any arguments or evidence to dispute any of my observations about CM Punk.




HBK vs Hogan? Hogan > HBK - HBK was entertaing, Hogan just plain blows IMO
HBK vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart = HBK (my preference is for Bret Hart)
HBK vs Austin? Austin > HBK
HBK vs Rock? Rock > HBK - Disagree
HBK vs HHH? HHH > HBK
HBK vs Goldberg? Goldberg > HBK - Disagree
HBK vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > HBK
HBK vs Undertaker? Undertaker > HBK
HBK vs Cena? Cena > HBK - Completely Disagree
HBK vs Orton? Orton > HBK - About on the same page


Wrestling is not *real*. But it is suppose to be entertainment that looks legitimately realistic. Because that is ultimately what sells. If it looks too fake, it becomes a turn off.

Sure, HBK is a more charismatic performer than most other performers. But can you seriously believe that HBK would be the top dog over guys like Goldberg, Hogan, The Rock, Cena, or Orton - when they were all in their primes?

How realistic would it be for HBK to bury guys like Goldberg and the Rock?

Who would Vince McMahon pick to be the face and flagship of his company if he had to choose between HBK and guys like Goldberg, Hogan, The Rock, Cena, or Orton? In fact, which guys *did* Vince McMahon pick as the guy to be the face and flagship of his company over HBK?




Now what about: HBK vs CM Punk?

In my objective opinion: HBK > CM Punk - Same page or = to

Follow the logic here?

Convince me that CM Punk is *better* than HBK in terms of value and impact to the industry and WWE company. - CM Punk is fighting for change and HBK did what he was told.

If CM Punk is not even on HBK's level, well then, how can you consider CM Punk as a *legitimate* world heavy championship title contender?- Again this is your opinion not a fact

Let me make it even clearer then:

Punk vs HBK? HBK > Punk - Disagree, my opinion is they are about = to each other


So you really think CM Punk is on the same level as HBK?

The reason I picked HBK as a comparison for Punk, is simply because they are in the same physical class. They are about the same in terms of physical build, except HBK is in better shape and more athletic.

Let's say their mic/promo skills are equal.

Do you actually believe that CM Punk's in-ring performance is equal to HBK?




Then clearly:
Punk vs Hogan? Hogan > Punk - LMAO, Disagree Hogan knew what, 4 moves?
Punk vs Bret Hart? Bret Hart > Punk
Punk vs Austin? Austin > Punk
Punk vs Rock? Rock > Punk - Rock's finisher "the people's elbow" is super weak compared to Punk's GTS
Punk vs HHH? HHH > Punk - Again, just your opinion
Punk vs Goldberg? Goldberg > Punk - Goldberg has contributed nothing to wrestling
Punk vs Brock Lesnar? Lesnar > Punk
Punk vs Undertaker? Undertaker > Punk
Punk vs Cena? Cena > Punk - Punk's merchandise has outsold Cena's merchandise sales, also Punk has more move sets
Punk vs Orton? Orton > Punk - About = to in my opinion


Again, you need to look at this list in terms of being *realistic*. How realistic would it be for CM Punk to bury guys like Goldberg and the Rock?

Who would Vince McMahon pick to be the face and flagship of his company if he had to choose between CM Punk and guys like Goldberg, Hogan, The Rock, Cena, or Orton? In fact, which guys *did* Vince McMahon pick as the guy to be the face and flagship of his company over CM Punk?



Make sense? - Not even close. However it might if you refuse to look at any real facts and pretend that your always right.

Dude, what facts have you or any of the other CM Punk marks presented?

Do you really think that in the era which contained all these wrestlers like Hogan, Austin, Rock, HHH, Undertaker, Goldberg, Brock Lesnar, Sting, Bret Hart, HBK, Batista, Cena, Orton, and even Kurt Angle, that CM Punk would be where he is right now with the WWE?

Asherdelampyr
10-05-2011, 12:49 PM
look again over the videos that other people presented, as well as the arguments vis a vis the way the move is hit with both people.
If that doesn't make it clear to you, then agree to disagree.

squarecircle
10-05-2011, 12:52 PM
Let's see:

Punk's GTS looks weak against the bigger superstars.

Why is that?

Because Punk is physically smaller and weaker than most of the *heavy weights*.

Is this a valid criticism? Well, certaintly!


But hmmm ... can this be taken as a *bashing* as well?

Well, duh ... I just blamed Punk for being a short skinny fatass as the reason why his GTS finish looks *weak*!


After reading this its pretty clear that this thread is not about punk not being able to hit the GTS but rather a punk bashing thread which makes any point you try to make invalid

squarecircle
10-05-2011, 01:02 PM
If the WWE now wants to shove CM Punk down our throats, then CM Punk needs to step up his game to be *world champion* calibre.

If CM Punk's wins *big matches* with a GTS that misses it mark most of the time against the *top dogs* in the business, then its not *realistic* and we the fans start chanting: "this is bullsh|t!"

On top of that, CM Punk looks *weak* against the other *top dogs* in the business. Heck, Kevin Nash makes Punk look like a child who shouldn't be in the ring! Powerbombs left and right.


look again over the videos that other people presented, as well as the arguments vis a vis the way the move is hit with both people.
If that doesn't make it clear to you, then agree to disagree.

Dr. Death
10-05-2011, 02:26 PM
No dude, the point is that the CM Punk marks can't handle valid criticisms about their favorite wrestler.

I've backed up my argument with actually video footage that clearly shows how CM Punk has a hard time hitting his GTS properly against the bigger superstars. And my explanation is that CM Punk is smaller and weaker than most of the *heavy weights*, hence it makes it difficult on him to do the GTS properly.

Are the CM Punk marks denying that Punk's GTS misses it marks a lot against the *heavy weights*?

Are the CM Punk marks denying that Punk is physically smaller and weaker than most of the other *heavy weights*?

Are the CM Punk marks denying that Punk looks physically weaker in his matches against the other *heavy weights*?

So if you disagree with my observations about CM Punk, then give me reasons to consider why you are right. That's the whole point of forums! To debate, discuss, and share! You think you are right, will prove it!

None of the CM Punk marks have given any arguments or evidence to dispute any of my observations about CM Punk.




Wrestling is not *real*. But it is suppose to be entertainment that looks legitimately realistic. Because that is ultimately what sells. If it looks too fake, it becomes a turn off.

Sure, HBK is a more charismatic performer than most other performers. But can you seriously believe that HBK would be the top dog over guys like Goldberg, Hogan, The Rock, Cena, or Orton - when they were all in their primes?

How realistic would it be for HBK to bury guys like Goldberg and the Rock?

Who would Vince McMahon pick to be the face and flagship of his company if he had to choose between HBK and guys like Goldberg, Hogan, The Rock, Cena, or Orton? In fact, which guys *did* Vince McMahon pick as the guy to be the face and flagship of his company over HBK?




So you really think CM Punk is on the same level as HBK?

The reason I picked HBK as a comparison for Punk, is simply because they are in the same physical class. They are about the same in terms of physical build, except HBK is in better shape and more athletic.

Let's say their mic/promo skills are equal.

Do you actually believe that CM Punk's in-ring performance is equal to HBK?




Again, you need to look at this list in terms of being *realistic*. How realistic would it be for CM Punk to bury guys like Goldberg and the Rock?

Who would Vince McMahon pick to be the face and flagship of his company if he had to choose between CM Punk and guys like Goldberg, Hogan, The Rock, Cena, or Orton? In fact, which guys *did* Vince McMahon pick as the guy to be the face and flagship of his company over CM Punk?



Dude, what facts have you or any of the other CM Punk marks presented?

Do you really think that in the era which contained all these wrestlers like Hogan, Austin, Rock, HHH, Undertaker, Goldberg, Brock Lesnar, Sting, Bret Hart, HBK, Batista, Cena, Orton, and even Kurt Angle, that CM Punk would be where he is right now with the WWE?


We have been looking at pages and pages of video proof that he can hit the GTS. You seem to be the one who is failing to see that. Again, wrestling is not real dude! None of the guys you mentioned would have ever been champ if Vince wouldn't have made it so. And yes, I think that CM Punk would and could go with anyone in their prime. And no, I'm not a Punk mark. I like the guy yes, but enjoy watching ALL matches and stars. Again, it seems to me that you just like to argue, if you don't, then prove me wrong and let this thread end already. I disagree with you, you have your opinion and I have mine. You will never convince me 100% of your view, and I won't even try to waste my time to prove my view. I do agree that forums are for discussion, but they are not for trying to make everyone change their opinions to match yours.

squarecircle
10-05-2011, 04:05 PM
Who are you? The internet police? You get to decide when a thread should end? LOL

Let me tell you how it works again: if you make a post, I can respond to your post.

And I know that I am not going to change you or anybody else's mind! I'm simply pointing out holes in your point of view.

With this thread, all I want to do is to fight back against this current tide of B.S. that is coming out of the WWE right now with CM Punk.

Has CM Punk hit the GTS properly? Yes! I'm not denying that. But it is not simply the fact that Punk misses his mark with the GTS on many occassions in *big matches*, its the fact that it looks *WEAK* overall - even when he does hit it properly!

And that is due to CM Punks lack of size and strength. Even though wrestling is not real, CM Punk does not appear superior than many of the heavy weight opponents he has faced. Punk does not make me believe that he can *legitimately* beat up these guys, and hence, deserve to be a *permanent fixture* of the *world heavyweight champion* storylines.

And when the WWE starts pushing CM Punk like he is *better* and *tougher* then he really is, I'm calling it out as *bullsh|t*! And the best evidence of this *bullsh|t* is CM Punk's *weak* GTS finish.

If there were other more legitimate world heavy champion types right now in the WWE, CM Punk would have never gotten this kind of push.


We have been looking at pages and pages of video proof that he can hit the GTS. You seem to be the one who is failing to see that. Again, wrestling is not real dude! None of the guys you mentioned would have ever been champ if Vince wouldn't have made it so. And yes, I think that CM Punk would and could go with anyone in their prime. And no, I'm not a Punk mark. I like the guy yes, but enjoy watching ALL matches and stars. Again, it seems to me that you just like to argue, if you don't, then prove me wrong and let this thread end already. I disagree with you, you have your opinion and I have mine. You will never convince me 100% of your view, and I won't even try to waste my time to prove my view. I do agree that forums are for discussion, but they are not for trying to make everyone change their opinions to match yours.

68wPayne
10-05-2011, 04:22 PM
This thread is a big long facepalm. I just wanna throw in a few points of my own.

My points:
1. Wrestling is not real, it does not matter who is bigger, stronger, more talented, etc. It matters who Vince feels like can make him the most money. CM Punk is selling a fuck ton of merchandise, so he is in for a long haul. Same goes for Cena, Orton, Austin, Hogan, Warrior, HBK, Triple H, everybody.

2. The GTS honestly isn't that great of a finisher but it fits the WWE mold of being safe and unique.

3. HBK was a better performer than Punk is now, but Punk has more respect for the business than Michaels did at the same point in his career and that's why people are on his side.

4. Punk cannot perform GTS on bigger opponents because he is not a jacked up 'roid monkey and that's not his character.

5. I don't care if people like Punk or don't like Punk. I enjoy watching him, others may not. That's why there is a whole roster full of people, different strokes for different folks.

Dr. Death
10-05-2011, 09:28 PM
Who are you? The internet police? You get to decide when a thread should end? LOL

Let me tell you how it works again: if you make a post, I can respond to your post.

And I know that I am not going to change you or anybody else's mind! I'm simply pointing out holes in your point of view.

With this thread, all I want to do is to fight back against this current tide of B.S. that is coming out of the WWE right now with CM Punk.

Has CM Punk hit the GTS properly? Yes! I'm not denying that. But it is not simply the fact that Punk misses his mark with the GTS on many occassions in *big matches*, its the fact that it looks *WEAK* overall - even when he does hit it properly!

And that is due to CM Punks lack of size and strength. Even though wrestling is not real, CM Punk does not appear superior than many of the heavy weight opponents he has faced. Punk does not make me believe that he can *legitimately* beat up these guys, and hence, deserve to be a *permanent fixture* of the *world heavyweight champion* storylines.

And when the WWE starts pushing CM Punk like he is *better* and *tougher* then he really is, I'm calling it out as *bullsh|t*! And the best evidence of this *bullsh|t* is CM Punk's *weak* GTS finish.

If there were other more legitimate world heavy champion types right now in the WWE, CM Punk would have never gotten this kind of push.


Who are you? A loud mouth braggert Know it all? I feel sorry for you that your so shallow other peoples opinions hurt your feelings. Bottom line like it or not Vince decides who does what in the WWE not you so get over it already. 68wPayne makes some good points, maybe you should digest them before you get all hysterical. It's a show and that's all. You seem to take this wayyyy too seriously. You have your opinion, and I have mine, why can't you just leave it like that? Remember if you post, I can post back. But I'll let you have your mental breakdown by yourself now and won't waste my time discussing adult comprehension with you until you at least go thru puberty.

IrkenInvader
10-05-2011, 09:35 PM
The stunner sucked. There's a reason why it wasn't called the knocker outer.

squarecircle
10-06-2011, 10:13 AM
Chillax homer! Wrestling is not real! No need to pop a vein because you can't get the last word! LOL

Let's see who Vince has pushed in the last year for the world heavyweight titles:

1. Sheamus
2. Wade Barrett
3. Mark Henry

Look at #1 and #2. Those are NEW GUYS from the last year! What does that tell you about Vince's choices?!

Think about it! Vince pushed two new unknown *big men* wrestlers before giving other guys like CM Punk a chance!

It was only after Nexus failed in increasing merchandise and PPV numbers that Vince had *no choice* but to give the ball to the *veteran* CM Punk.

And who is the other big man that Vince is pushing right now? Ryan Mason!

Now lets see you deny these facts!

Remember, this is an Internet forum. It's OK to speak your mind and voice your opinion and objects. Don't be embarass if you want to come back and post in this thread. It's OK! LOL


Who are you? A loud mouth braggert Know it all? I feel sorry for you that your so shallow other peoples opinions hurt your feelings. Bottom line like it or not Vince decides who does what in the WWE not you so get over it already. 68wPayne makes some good points, maybe you should digest them before you get all hysterical. It's a show and that's all. You seem to take this wayyyy too seriously. You have your opinion, and I have mine, why can't you just leave it like that? Remember if you post, I can post back. But I'll let you have your mental breakdown by yourself now and won't waste my time discussing adult comprehension with you until you at least go thru puberty.

squarecircle
10-06-2011, 10:19 AM
Great to see somebody who understands what I am saying! LOL

The GTS is a bad finisher for CM Punk against the bigger heavy weights because he is short skinny fatass! LOL



This thread is a big long facepalm. I just wanna throw in a few points of my own.

My points:
1. Wrestling is not real, it does not matter who is bigger, stronger, more talented, etc. It matters who Vince feels like can make him the most money. CM Punk is selling a fuck ton of merchandise, so he is in for a long haul. Same goes for Cena, Orton, Austin, Hogan, Warrior, HBK, Triple H, everybody.

2. The GTS honestly isn't that great of a finisher but it fits the WWE mold of being safe and unique.

3. HBK was a better performer than Punk is now, but Punk has more respect for the business than Michaels did at the same point in his career and that's why people are on his side.

4. Punk cannot perform GTS on bigger opponents because he is not a jacked up 'roid monkey and that's not his character.

5. I don't care if people like Punk or don't like Punk. I enjoy watching him, others may not. That's why there is a whole roster full of people, different strokes for different folks.

squarecircle
10-06-2011, 10:28 AM
@Dr Death

I forgot to mention this other *big man* that Vince is pushing right now: The WWE Champ ... Alberto Del Rio!

Alberto Del Rio has the traditional world heavy weight height and build at 6'3.

CM Punk is 5'11 at best, and is a skinny fatass.

Sully
10-06-2011, 10:55 AM
I swear...people try to make a thread for EVERY LITTLE THING THEY CAN THINK OF. You're like those people who actually try to look for something to be pissed off about.

I think the finisher looks fine. Not many people use it...I don't think anybody uses it in the WWE. It looks fine to me, and honestly it looks cool as well. No matter how fake it looks, a knee to the fucking head is painful.

Plus, it's not Punk's fault. If Vince fucking let him use his moves like the Annaconda Vice or the Pepsi Plunge, he could have more of a variety. It's Punks move though, you could take nearly everyone's finisher in the main evens and say it sucks. Cena's FU, Orton's RKO? Del Rio's fucking....arm thing?

He's finisher is no worse then anybody else's average finisher in the E'. I'd like to see you try giving someone a GTS, you'd probably botch it more then Hornswoggle.

IrkenInvader
10-06-2011, 05:48 PM
Every single finisher in the history of wrestling that didn't knock out the victim when hit was a horrible finisher.

TheEelDeal
10-07-2011, 06:39 AM
Eh.... I agree with CM Punks GTS being rubbish. Theres a reason he was on Smackdown so they could change the angles on it.

The Kane one was the final straw.

Very good wrestler let down because when this move fails its at a point he's supposed to be closing the match out - hitting a high point.

Understand people liking him and his wrestling but this move misses the mark way to often.

Dr. Death
10-07-2011, 07:56 AM
Chillax homer! Wrestling is not real! No need to pop a vein because you can't get the last word! LOL

Let's see who Vince has pushed in the last year for the world heavyweight titles:

1. Sheamus
2. Wade Barrett
3. Mark Henry

Look at #1 and #2. Those are NEW GUYS from the last year! What does that tell you about Vince's choices?!

Think about it! Vince pushed two new unknown *big men* wrestlers before giving other guys like CM Punk a chance!

It was only after Nexus failed in increasing merchandise and PPV numbers that Vince had *no choice* but to give the ball to the *veteran* CM Punk.

And who is the other big man that Vince is pushing right now? Ryan Mason!

Now lets see you deny these facts!

Remember, this is an Internet forum. It's OK to speak your mind and voice your opinion and objects. Don't be embarass if you want to come back and post in this thread. It's OK! LOL


In the past year:
WHC Champions and who they defeated:

Chris Jericho def. Undertaker in St. Louis on 02-21-10
Jack Swagger def. Chris Jericho in Las Vegas on 04-02-10
Rey Mysterio def. Jack Swagger, CM Punk & Big Show in Uniondale, N.Y. on 06-20-10
Kane def. Rey Mysterio in Kansas City, Mo. on 07-18-10
Edge def. Kane, Rey Mysterio & Alberto Del Rio in Houston on 12-19-10
Dolph Ziggler def. n/a (awarded title by Vicki) in San Diego on 02-18-11
Edge def. Dolph Ziggler in San Diego on 02-18-11
Between 02-18-11 and 05-01-11 WHC Title held up because Edge retired from wrestling
Christian def. Alberto Del Rio in Tampa on 05-01-11
Randy Orton def. Christian in Orlando, Florida on 05-06-11
Christian def. Randy Orton in Chicago on 07-17-11
Randy Orton def. Christian in Los Angeles on 08-14-11
Mark Henry def. Randy Orton in Buffalo, N.Y. on 09-18-11

These are the Facts concerning the WHC Title direct from WWE.com

In the past year:
The WWE Champs and who they defeated:

John Cena def. Sheamus in St. Louis on 02-21-10
Batista def. John Cena in St. Louis on 02-21-10
John Cena def. Batista in Phoenix on 03-28-10
Sheamus def. John Cena, Randy Orton & Edge in Uniondale, N.Y. on 06-20-10
Randy Orton def. Sheamus in Chicago on 09-19-10
The Miz def. Randy Orton in Orlando on 11-22-10
John Cena def. The Miz in Tampa on 05-01-11
CM Punk def. John Cena in Chicago on 07-17-11
(CM Punk had yet to re-sign with WWE, so a New WWE Champ,(storyline), was determined on RAW)
Rey Mysterio def. The Miz in Hampton, Va. on 07-25-11
John Cena def. Rey Mysterio in Hampton, Va. on 07-25-11
(CM Punk returned and def. John Cena to determine the real WWE Champion on 08-14-11)
Alberto Del Rio def. CM Punk in Los Angeles on 08-14-11, ( RAW MITB cash in)
John Cena def. Alberto Del Rio in Buffalo, N.Y. on 09-18-11
Alberto Del Rio def. CM Punk, John Cena in New Orleans on 10-02-11

These are the Facts of the WWE Championship for the past year, direct from WWE.com

Also it is Mason Ryan not Ryan Mason and he is not being given a major push as of yet. Also Wade Barrett has yet to be WHC or WWE Heavyweight Champ. I would invite you to continue the discussion via pm, but I just noticed you've been banned. What for I have no clue. However all of this is way off topic pertaining to the thread. Sorry guys and gals, just waking up and haven't had my coffee yet.